At my current school, a disproportionate number of my colleagues seem to have very serious drinking problems. I've heard stories from other teachers at other schools about colleagues who enjoying drinking quite a bit, but at this school it really seems to be a very big problem. Since it's a small school and not easy to just distance yourself, I looked up Alcoholics Anonymous to see if there is a local chapter. No. These people seem like decent people, but their behavior - both outside and inside of school - seems to be effected by their alcoholism and its associated problems.
Has anyone experienced anything similar (I'm sure there are plenty) and have you seen it dealt with in an effective way, either by the individuals themselves or by administrators? I am seriously expecting to walk in some morning and hear that one of them is dead . . . it's that bad.
Alcoholics
Re: Alcoholics
Apisa68, I'm a little concerned with some of your terminology. "very serious drinking problems", "it really seems to be a very big problem", "These people seem like decent people, but their behaviour...". Firstly, how do you define a 'very serious drinking problem'? The reason I ask, is that I drink, in my opinion, in moderation. However, it came to light recently that several parents (all Americans) had been discussing my drinking within their own little clique. Apparently they had me branded as a raging alcoholic. This information got to the school director. I informed him that I do like a drink and I do so openly. I never get drunk, I never miss work, I never drink alcohol at all during the working week. So what was the problem? He agreed. I believe that the problem is that those who judge others, perhaps need to question themselves. Do you come from a country where it is quite normal to go to the bar and drink? I know for many Americans this is not, but for many Europeans it is perfectly acceptable social behaviour.
"These people seem like decent people, but their behaviour...". You seem surprised by the fact that someone who drinks can be a decent person. In my experience, most people who drink are decent people. There are some who drink too much and their behaviour can become unacceptable, but by and large, most drinkers are perfectly normal people who choose to socialise in a way that they enjoy. Different strokes and all that.
"I looked up Alcoholics Anonymous to see if there is a local chapter". Are you serious? Were you really going to advise your colleagues, that in YOUR opinion, they should be getting help for their problem? I know what I would have told you if you did that to me.
"their behavior - both outside and inside of school - seems to be effected by their alcoholism and its associated problems." Once again you make an assumption. Because they drink does not mean that they are alcoholics. Are you in some way qualified to make this diagnosis? Specifically, what problems inside of school are you talking about? Are we to assume that your colleagues are staggering around the school drunk, fighting etc? And, if there are problems outside of school, what business is that of yours?
"I've heard stories from other teachers at other schools about colleagues who enjoying drinking quite a bit". Yes Apisa, many teachers do enjoy drinking. The fact that other teachers had to tell you that, tells me that you have very little experience in this area. Cut out the tittle-tattle Apisa and tell your friends the same. They'll enjoy life much more.
Seriously Apisa, I think you need to either rewrite this stuff or you need to lighten up as to YOUR perceived behaviour of your colleagues. And, you really should stop gossiping about people and things that you clearly know very little about.Are you American by any chance?
"These people seem like decent people, but their behaviour...". You seem surprised by the fact that someone who drinks can be a decent person. In my experience, most people who drink are decent people. There are some who drink too much and their behaviour can become unacceptable, but by and large, most drinkers are perfectly normal people who choose to socialise in a way that they enjoy. Different strokes and all that.
"I looked up Alcoholics Anonymous to see if there is a local chapter". Are you serious? Were you really going to advise your colleagues, that in YOUR opinion, they should be getting help for their problem? I know what I would have told you if you did that to me.
"their behavior - both outside and inside of school - seems to be effected by their alcoholism and its associated problems." Once again you make an assumption. Because they drink does not mean that they are alcoholics. Are you in some way qualified to make this diagnosis? Specifically, what problems inside of school are you talking about? Are we to assume that your colleagues are staggering around the school drunk, fighting etc? And, if there are problems outside of school, what business is that of yours?
"I've heard stories from other teachers at other schools about colleagues who enjoying drinking quite a bit". Yes Apisa, many teachers do enjoy drinking. The fact that other teachers had to tell you that, tells me that you have very little experience in this area. Cut out the tittle-tattle Apisa and tell your friends the same. They'll enjoy life much more.
Seriously Apisa, I think you need to either rewrite this stuff or you need to lighten up as to YOUR perceived behaviour of your colleagues. And, you really should stop gossiping about people and things that you clearly know very little about.Are you American by any chance?
Re: Alcoholics
Apis68
I worked at a couple of schools in Asia and, yes, in my experiences, the cheap beer combined with the warm climate definitely attracted a disproportionate number of people, both men and women, who enjoyed drinking a little too much. I can't tell you how many times I would be walking behind a teacher on a hot day and smell the alcohol seeping through their pores. And at school parties/gatherings, there were always the "WOO WOOS" getting plastered, dancing, and shouting "WOOOOO!" at the slightest opportunity - it was embarrassing.
I always remember what a longtime veteran expat told me: There are 2 kinds of people who choose to live overseas. Those who want the adventure and the experiences/education other cultures can provide, and those who can't make a life for themselves, for whatever reasons, in their native countries.
Alcohol is, unfortunately, still a great way for many to live with pain/disappointment/frustration.
I worked at a couple of schools in Asia and, yes, in my experiences, the cheap beer combined with the warm climate definitely attracted a disproportionate number of people, both men and women, who enjoyed drinking a little too much. I can't tell you how many times I would be walking behind a teacher on a hot day and smell the alcohol seeping through their pores. And at school parties/gatherings, there were always the "WOO WOOS" getting plastered, dancing, and shouting "WOOOOO!" at the slightest opportunity - it was embarrassing.
I always remember what a longtime veteran expat told me: There are 2 kinds of people who choose to live overseas. Those who want the adventure and the experiences/education other cultures can provide, and those who can't make a life for themselves, for whatever reasons, in their native countries.
Alcohol is, unfortunately, still a great way for many to live with pain/disappointment/frustration.
Re: Alcoholics
Oh, I almost forgot those teachers locking their classroom doors to sleep off a binge - during the school day.
Re: Alcoholics
I agree with most of what robbyp88 said but take umbrage with the American comments. As an American that imbibes regularly I can attest that a large portion of American teachers that I have known and work with DO drink after hours and on weekends without having ANY negative effect on their professional duties. What's more: this is known by administration and colleagues alike and it is not an issue. In your words "it is quite normal to go to a bar and drink."
Just as the OP made sweeping generalizations about people he or she did not know, you are doing the same thing when you insinuate that all Americans are prudes (or whatever it is you're alluding to). I'm assuming you've met many American's you haven't liked for whatever reason. I have too, but I can say the same thing about Aussies, Brits, Canadians and Japanese. That said, the number of people from any given place that I DON"T know will always outnumber those that I DO know. As such I would never disparage an entire country's population based on my inherently limited knowledge. I would hope that an international educator would share this mindset...
Anyway, to the OP, you really need to worry more about yourself. Some people are alcoholics. And some of those people are teachers. Whether any of those people are your coworkers is not your problem. That would be their problem. They are adults. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't socialize with them. Crisis averted... If one of them dies from their drinking, it won't be your fault.
Just as the OP made sweeping generalizations about people he or she did not know, you are doing the same thing when you insinuate that all Americans are prudes (or whatever it is you're alluding to). I'm assuming you've met many American's you haven't liked for whatever reason. I have too, but I can say the same thing about Aussies, Brits, Canadians and Japanese. That said, the number of people from any given place that I DON"T know will always outnumber those that I DO know. As such I would never disparage an entire country's population based on my inherently limited knowledge. I would hope that an international educator would share this mindset...
Anyway, to the OP, you really need to worry more about yourself. Some people are alcoholics. And some of those people are teachers. Whether any of those people are your coworkers is not your problem. That would be their problem. They are adults. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't socialize with them. Crisis averted... If one of them dies from their drinking, it won't be your fault.
Re: Alcoholics
Well, Robby, when you're out, drinking, with people and they get shit-faced and make a scene, show up to work smelling like liquor on a regular basis with admitted hang-overs, talk about not having much to live for, yes, I think it's not unreasonable to think they have a drinking problem. I'm not talking about going to the bar and having two, three, or even four drinks. I'm talking about getting shit-faced. And no, I've never ever gossiped about any of them at any time with anyone. And was I going to advise them to join AA? No. I wasn't. I was curious if that was an option if they did decide to help themselves.
You don't seem to understand. I have seen these people communicate with children in ways that are just not acceptable. Eventually, someone besides me is going to hear the sorts of things I've heard or one of the students is going to make a legitimate complaint. They don't seem to be aware of the what they're doing. But this is not about getting them in trouble, this is about people who really have a problem. People who I really don't think are jerks and in fact seem quite decent at their core. I've worked with jerks - those who were alcoholics and those who were not - and I wouldn't put these people in this group.
Yes, they're adults and they will do what they will do. I accept that I have no control over what they do. But I was hoping to hear from someone that programs like AA have been successfully started in unlikely places. Or just something that could prevent what I think is surely going to be an ugly situation eventually.
You don't seem to understand. I have seen these people communicate with children in ways that are just not acceptable. Eventually, someone besides me is going to hear the sorts of things I've heard or one of the students is going to make a legitimate complaint. They don't seem to be aware of the what they're doing. But this is not about getting them in trouble, this is about people who really have a problem. People who I really don't think are jerks and in fact seem quite decent at their core. I've worked with jerks - those who were alcoholics and those who were not - and I wouldn't put these people in this group.
Yes, they're adults and they will do what they will do. I accept that I have no control over what they do. But I was hoping to hear from someone that programs like AA have been successfully started in unlikely places. Or just something that could prevent what I think is surely going to be an ugly situation eventually.
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teachingagain1945
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:41 am
Re: Alcoholics
I personally think there is often too much drinking going on with international teachers, myself included. Lots to say on this. But people who imbibe who may have a problem with this post may have that problem because it hits a little too close to home with themselves and don't want to admit it to anyone including themselves.
Anyway, I think there are many reasons why excessive drinking by international school teachers may be the case. I don't hold it against anyone. People like to enjoy themselves, they're often young, it's a . atmosphere, etc. But, for those who are alcoholics, someone recently said "Alcoholism is a disease. But it's the only disease you get yelled at for having". Let's not yell at anyone. :)
Anyway, I think there are many reasons why excessive drinking by international school teachers may be the case. I don't hold it against anyone. People like to enjoy themselves, they're often young, it's a . atmosphere, etc. But, for those who are alcoholics, someone recently said "Alcoholism is a disease. But it's the only disease you get yelled at for having". Let's not yell at anyone. :)
Re: Alcoholics
If the issue is truly impacting the teachers' work and students' experience, than you have a duty to raise it with the admin. It is not your place to raise it with the individuals unless you happen to be a close friend who can speak to how the drinking is impacting their lives, and if you just met them this year that seems doubtful.
In certain circles, there is talk on developing a Teachers Oath, similar to the Hippocratic Oath for medical professionals, covering our ethical responsibilities. I think this would certainly qualify - if you are aware that students are getting the short straw, less than their entitlement, as a professional you should speak. I don't care what the reason is for the lack of care for students, it is our duty to see it and do what we can. It could be alcohol or just plain not caring, but it's not acceptable. And that might be a way for admin to address it with the teachers, looking at the expectations for teachers during the school day, rather than looking at outside behavior. Leave it to the teacher to determine if they need to make outside changes in order to meet the inside requirements.
In certain circles, there is talk on developing a Teachers Oath, similar to the Hippocratic Oath for medical professionals, covering our ethical responsibilities. I think this would certainly qualify - if you are aware that students are getting the short straw, less than their entitlement, as a professional you should speak. I don't care what the reason is for the lack of care for students, it is our duty to see it and do what we can. It could be alcohol or just plain not caring, but it's not acceptable. And that might be a way for admin to address it with the teachers, looking at the expectations for teachers during the school day, rather than looking at outside behavior. Leave it to the teacher to determine if they need to make outside changes in order to meet the inside requirements.
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SafariDude
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:42 am
Re: Alcoholics
When I worked in Western Europe there would be alcohol on campus. In Germany every Friday after school we would hold a Stammtisch. It was great fun, until we would be joined by upper management. Especially the Assistant Head of School. She would get so drunk and loud that her annoying upper mid-west accent that was made famous in a Cohen Brother's movie would begin to annoy you even more than it usually did. It is wildly known that she has a very big drinking problem. At an engagement . this year she drank so much that when she tried to carry a tray full of filled Champagne glasses she couldn't make it more than 10 feet before she tripped over herself and spilled that tray and perfectly good Champagne all over herself.
I can understand why the OP is posting this. If you can't handle the drinking, don't do it. If you make a fool out of yourself like this soon to be retiring Assistant Head of School has over and over again at both school and out of school functions, stop drinking or seek professional help. Because the atmosphere that you create at work because of your illness not be a positive one.
I can understand why the OP is posting this. If you can't handle the drinking, don't do it. If you make a fool out of yourself like this soon to be retiring Assistant Head of School has over and over again at both school and out of school functions, stop drinking or seek professional help. Because the atmosphere that you create at work because of your illness not be a positive one.
Re: Alcoholics
KilGore
If I am "the American" you are writing about, I have to ask what in hell are you talking about.
NO poster mentioned nationality and I certainly made no sweeping judgements, just stated what I experienced and felt purely from my own time overseas.
If you inferred something else from my posts then that is coming from your own prejudices and biases, not mine.
And for the record, there are just as many loud and drunk Aussies, Brits, etc. as Americans.
If I am "the American" you are writing about, I have to ask what in hell are you talking about.
NO poster mentioned nationality and I certainly made no sweeping judgements, just stated what I experienced and felt purely from my own time overseas.
If you inferred something else from my posts then that is coming from your own prejudices and biases, not mine.
And for the record, there are just as many loud and drunk Aussies, Brits, etc. as Americans.