What are Saudi students like?

Post Reply
az0116
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:51 am

What are Saudi students like?

Post by az0116 »

Hello,
My upcoming post is going to be a Saudi embassy school in Europe teaching ib art. Could anyone enlighten me as to how their culture affects their attitude about learning, along with tips to overcome any barriers? I'm googling this and I seem to be seeing a lot of "they are rich and lazy so good luck on getting them to do any work". Is that right? Call me idealistic but that doesn't seem to be a great or even useful way to view my students. Any practical advice?
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by sid »

They are individuals. But of course you know that, or you would have accepted the pat answers you've been given.
Culturally, there is a different view of respect and affinity than typically seen in US-based cultures. Respect in the US is traditionally granted automatically to certain figures, including elders and teachers. Those figures keep the respect they've been given unless they do something to actively un-earn it.
In Arabic culture, respect must be earned by everyone. It is not given automatically. So approach a new class humbly, with quiet authority and "act like a teacher" so they learn to trust and respect you. Get to know the students individually, and show you care about them. This is of massive importance; culturally students depend on these relationships much more than US students tend to, and we all know how important relationships and caring are even in the states. Double, treble or quadruple that. If you walk in with an attitude like "I'm the teacher, I'm in charge, I know stuff, you will listen to me", that would probably work in the US (not that it's my favorite approach), but in Arabia that just comes off as massively arrogant and rude. You may never recover if you start that way.
Treat all students with respect. Handle discipline issues firmly, CALMLY and privately. Anger is not well received.
Family is huge. Having to attend a cousin's wedding and be out until 3AM, that's real, not some lame excuse. Their familial obligations trump school obligations. Be respectful of that. Still expect students to work with you, preferably in advance, to sort a plan for how to make things up. Don't move the bar, but be flexible about helping a student find a way to get over it.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by shadowjack »

Also, in most Saudi schools, even the "good" ones, there is a large contingent of students who get 100% in all their classes. How? Well, the system is based on traditional scholarship where students memorize huge chunks of data and regurgitate it as needed. To give you an example, when I asked my Saudi students to write a paragraph, one student asked me what to write (they had to take a position on something). Then another student said, "But if I write A, you will say, "No, it's B," and give me a zero"

English graduation exam portions consisted, for many students (and my students came from all over), of being given 5 paragraphs in late April and in June, on the exam, being asked to write paragraph C - exactly as it was given to them down to punctuation. Most teachers in Saudi at Saudi school are Saudi or Arabic and they give students a package in early May, tell the students that this is what they need to know for the exam, and then test them on it. The students need to know the package verbatim.

Personal connection is everything, as is knowing a bit of Saudi Arabic. Fahamto? (do you all understand?) Quais (ok, yeah), kabeer (great), yella (quickly, hurry) will give you a bit of street cred, even if you don't know much more than that. You just explain you wanted to learn some words that would help you work with them (and they will love you for it).

As Sid explained, in Saudi life, family trumps everything. If a student gives you a family story, just accept it at face value for the nonce, but if you think it's a porky (a lie or stretching of the truth), don't be afraid to follow up on it with admin to check. Also, if you need parental contact - IE I need to call your mom - always call the dad. Most Saudis working at embassies and that are much more cosmopolitan than you would imagine, but culturally, you would interact with the dad.

If you are a female, expect a harder time teaching Saudi boys, especially those overseas for the first time. They can be rough. Also watch for class interactions in Arabic - Arab boys can be extremely cruel to each other in cultural contexts that mean nothing to us. It can be hard to figure out, which is why you should be paying extra attention when the Arabic level in the class goes up.

Lastly, when you have to be firm and lay down the law, be nice about it, but don't back down. Give in on the wrong thing and you will have students trying to walk all over you for the rest of the year.

Good luck! If you take the time to get to know your students you will gain understandings that few people ever get to.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by sid »

About the calling the parents thing...
Don't say "I'm going to call your mom". Use "I'm going to call your parent", especially if there is anyone else in the room. Double especially if you're talking to a boy. As shadowjack points out, the families you will have are travelers and high flyers and often pretty sophisticated and worldly, but there is still a deep historical thing that you don't talk about women in public, even to the point where mentioning "your mom" in the classroom could be considered public exposure. You likely wouldn't get an overt reaction, but you could find the relationship or the student's behavior becomes more strained after that. So say "parent". Often you can call the mom - they are often the one responsible for handling education in the family - especially if you are a female teacher. But if it is a really serious issue or you are a man and suspect it's a conservative family (ask admin), call the dad.
eion_padraig
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by eion_padraig »

Wow, I learned a lot and I don't even work with any Saudi families. Nice posts there Sid and Shadowjack.
jessiejames
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:00 pm

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by jessiejames »

Yes - very insightful reading!
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by sid »

Aww, shucks...
I'll add that if you follow this approach, and win the students over to you, they will go to the ends of the earth for you. Arab students tend to be very loyal, generous (in spirit, I don't mean they should be giving you gifts) and committed. If they decide that you're worth their time, and they extend that loyalty, generosity and commitment in your direction, amazing things can happen.

Also, make sure to respect their culture and homeland. Do not overtly or covertly show disdain towards Arabs, Arab governments, traditions, the desert, Islam, family traditions... If you feel that way, the ME is not the place you should be living and working, as you'll just make yourself and others miserable. Students will pick up on it and return the favor. But if you show respect and curiosity (ignorance is fine, just not disdain), they will pitch in to teach you all sorts of wonderful things.
gladly_teach&learn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:43 pm

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by gladly_teach&learn »

OP: As usual, Sid's talking Lilacs and Roses - ignore his lies as the mumblings of a demented old man.
Saudi students are like Kuwaiti students - they suck and are nothing but a big discipline problem.
You might as well get a job in an inner city.

The upside is the money; you'll make up to $60/hr as a "tutor" which basically means helping them with their homework.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by shadowjack »

Gladly_teach&learn,

I can only imagine the places you taught in Saudi and how long you were there for! I found my Saudi students, once the relationship and expectations were sorted, to be very much as Sid described. Once they have that connection and realize you genuinely do care (as opposed to stuck in Saudi doing a job that you realize you don't want to do), they DO pick it up. Not all are capable of doing so, but as the OP is going to be teaching at a Saudi school NOT IN SAUDI, s/he won't be dealing with the regular Saudi students that you clearly had the job of interacting with.

I can only speak from my experience - but I can tell from the get go that the "school" you were at wasn't one I was at - and as a teacher who has also taught in Kuwait - my students toed the line and met expectations there too - I can only guess where you "taught" there too.

Just my two halalas/fils habibi - or is it habibti?
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: What are Saudi students like?

Post by sid »

And there's pretty much the two categories of people in schools around the gulf, in a nutshell.
They like and respect the kids, and get it back.
Or they don't like and don't respect the kids, and they get that back.
I've seen plenty of both types.

What's that old chestnut about teachers always getting the same kids year after year - one teacher always gets the best kids, she loves them to bits, and the other always gets the worst dregs one can imagine. Same kids, just the teacher changes.

Schools here need a good admin team setting standards for student behavior, and supporting teachers so that they can support the students to meet those standards. Some schools here with weak admin really bring out the worst in everyone, and it can get pretty bad. Kuwait's got a reputation for having more schools like that than certain other countries.

I happen to like my lilacs and roses, by the way. Seeing the good side of things is a pretty pleasant way to live life. If you didn't see lilacs and roses in Kuwait, it's probably for the best that you moved on. Wishing you the best, wherever you are!
Post Reply