Unrealistic Expectations?

[Flyingpigs]

Yesterday, in Canada, I was giving a lecture to students in teacher's college--these are Canadian students, in a Canadian school. They have had 12 years of Canadian school, then 5 years of Canadian University.
They were all graduating with their Coveted and hard earned teacher's degree AND their Undergrad degree ( in a concurrent program, they earn both degrees simultaneously).
Before my lecture, I had asked them if they had a job--getting a job in Ontario is very tough, and not surprisingly, out of 300 students, there were maybe 10 people who raised their hands. Someone then yelled out that they had a job "IN AN INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL" --in Egypt. He also went on to say, that he knew of a few of his pals who also took jobs overseas--China, Egypt, Korea. Good for them, right? Shows adventure and spirit and ambition. That's one way to look at it for sure, but the other way can be summed up in two words: CULTURE SHOCK.
Is it realistic to expect glowing reports of a school/country if, not only you are new to the teaching arena ( And the stress of that--nothing prepares you for your first classroom) but you are now new to a whole different way of life, culture and existence. It is not surprising that often, new teachers struggle with classroom management and classroom routines. Teaching can be a challenging business, and is no different than any other profession in that the way to become really good at it, is to practice, and get experience. I have to wonder--is starting a teaching career in a new country like being thrown into the deep end? And if so, are the experiences recorded-valid--or should they be taken with a grain of salt?

[eion_padraig]

I don't know if it's better or worse than heading up North into an aboriginal community in Canada for teaching from the things I heard from people who do that. In many ways I'd compare working up North with aboriginal communities as being a place where a non-aboriginal Canadian would experience more culture shock than in a big internationalized city.

Given how Canada as a country has so many foreign born citizens and families who maintain strong ties abroad, I'd say these types of teaching experiences can be extremely valuable if they plan to return to teach in diverse school settings in Canada. I'd say the bigger issues are whether or not you find teachers to mentor you early in your career. That may or may not happen whether you are in Canada or overseas.

Even the experience of culture shock can be valuable as a teacher. When you are working in Canada and some student who had just moved to Canada with limited English or French ends up in your classroom, then you hopefully will understand some of the challenges they're going through first hand. So yes, it should certainly be considered valid by school boards hiring teachers in Canada.

I've heard the teachers' colleges are going to be reducing their cohorts because of the oversupply of teachers. Hopefully that will mean fewer teachers feel forced to head overseas because they can't find work in Canada or have to spend years and years working as a supply teacher.

[shadowjack]

When I graduated out west in the early 90's, out of 130 of us secondary teachers in the 5 year program specifically for teachers (this was not counting the separate PDP program), maybe 8 of us landed full time jobs. Most went on sub lists. Part of the major problem was that the majority of students I talked to wanted to stay in the city, while most of us who got jobs went out to the rural areas.

For a first year teacher going international with no 'real' experience, it will be a bigger shock than going rural. That reserve school can be rough, but they can't hold your passport, threaten you with jail, arbitrarily make you pay money back (although they can cut off your water service!).

Not saying that it would be a huge shock for everyone, but there is a reason why the good schools don't hire first year teachers, besides the fact they don't have to. And what does it say about schools that DO hire first year teachers?

[Flyingpigs]

You make an interesting point about working up north with aboriginal communities. Thats what I did my first year out of teachers college, 30 years ago. You are right--it was like another world ( I taught up in the arctic) but it was still Canada. Still english, and my passport was unnecessary. I was still under Canadian rules and regulations, still had Canadian security, still had access to 'my world'. When I worked in india as an IT, starting about 10 years ago--I had 20 years of teaching under my belt --it wasnt the teaching that was the issue, it was the challenge of the country--and being removed from everything that I knew. I guess my point is, is it reasonable to even THINK that anybody new to both teaching AND the country could report a favourable experience that first year, given the extreme stress they would be under in both living and profession?
In regards to reducing the cohorts--yes, they are making teachers college TWO years, changing it from the current one year program.

[sid]

My guess is it's an unrealistic expectation to assume that these students were all 100% Canadian born, raised and educated. With that large a number, I'd predict at least a few had experienced life outside the big C.

I also think it's hard to start teaching in an unfamiliar culture, but what's harder is to start teaching in a school that doesn't provide support for new teachers. Newbies need mentoring and support, and if a school provides that, great. If not, things are harder and the chances go down for that teacher turning into a wonderful teacher. Some international schools can do this. Some don't.

[Ocalmy]

As a newly certified teacher fresh out of a MAT program, this thread has really sparked my interest. I've just been hired at a fully accredited, albeit new, international school. I've been thinking a lot about the kinds of challenges I might face in this context as opposed to a public school in the United States.

As a student teacher, I had three different preps with around 35-40 students in each class. Several of them had learning disabilities, were English language learners, and had diverse ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds. The most stressful aspect of it all was coming up with effective procedures for managing such large class sizes. At the international school class sizes range from 14-16 --mostly highly motivated students. This brings a huge sense of relief.

Although this will be my first year working as a certified subject teacher, I do have three years of EFL experience in the country where I'll be teaching. I don't expect to have any issues with the culture. I'm more concerned about finding unofficial mentors in my department who are willing give me feedback and support. I will also be expected to advise clubs and extracurriculars. This is something I might not have been required to do as a first year teacher in the U.S. Lastly, since the school is relatively new I'm sure I will play a role in its development which will also add to my workload.

Of course I feel some anxiety, but overall I'm thrilled to have this opportunity. I'm willing to work as hard as I need to in order to succeed. I'm looking forward to learning as much as I can, as quickly as I can, from other teachers with more experience. Just my two cents.

[sugar1]

This is an interesting topic. Last year in my 2nd year of overseas I helped to recruit two new teachers straight out of programs in the USA (I had a friendship with a teacher educator there who gave them information about my school) and I helped arrange the interviews. The result? One of them broke contract within two months. The other one is happy and thriving both professionally and seems to love her life there (so far) and it's not an easy country for a westerner to live. That being said, I think that the experience for a new teacher is about an individualized as everything else in life. I think you are in a great position to help explain the unique challenges that will come with going out of country for a new experience (homesickness, added stress of VISA process, opening bank accounts, language, etc.) but at the same time I see new teachers paying off debts in 2/3 years that in TEN years living in USA I couldn't even touch! I also never had enough money to do the traveling that these new teachers are doing. So I'm not sure if expectations have to be unrealistic if the new teachers are willing to go into it with as much pragmatism as possible.

[Flyingpigs]

Interesting and rich discussion--which is what I had hoped. Of course, like in all things, it depends on the person, their experience, their attitude and their outlook--whether or not they are new to teaching or not. It just seemed to me that tackling both a new profession AND a new country, might be a bit daunting--especially if one has not travelled much, or has never visited the countries that typically would hire first year teachers.China, Egypt, India, ME are not for the faint of heart. One would hope that there would be some kind of a mentoring program at the school(s) for first year teachers. As it has been said many times it also goes to show that the reviews here on ISR and other places ( blogs/twitter/facebook etc) should also be read judiciously--what is true for one person is not necessarily true for another.

[yolo]

Interesting thread. Back when I started, I was one of hundreds of new grads with no job prospects (glad to hear the teacher colleges are limiting their intake- I think it's criminal how universities churn out hundreds of new teachers each year in countries, like Canada, where there is no teacher shortage and hasn't been for years.) I was dying a slow death subbing sporadically my first year after graduation. None of my friends even stayed in the teaching professions- jobs and subbing were just so scarce. I was lucky enough to land my first teaching job ever in a small international school in a developing tropical country. I had never even heard/knew about international schools. I think my complete lack of ignorance helped me- I was young, eager, willing and desperate to start teaching so I took the plunge without knowing anything about teaching internationally. I moved aboard with very little travel experience, but what helped me was my desire to teach and my complete lack of expectations and openness. As well, a few other fairly new-ish teachers joined the school the same time as me so we were all in the same boat. Luckily, overall, I had a very good experience. However, this was not in the Middle East - I don't know how I would have coped there. I was teaching in a small school, with small class sizes and there were practically zero behaviour issues, so this was an ideal situation for a first year teacher. I think because I was young and more flexible, I coped very well with the culture shock. I did, however, have a lot of support from my fellow newbie teachers where, like most international schools, we formed a tight knit family who helped each other out in all aspects of our new life abroad.

However, where I did struggle was with my complete lack of inexperience with school politics, dealing with a somewhat dodgy admin and school gossip (rampant in small schools I've since realized). That's where a teacher-mentor would have been super helpful.

You mentioned the quality of schools that hire first year teachers- well, mine definitely wasn't a tier 1 (or 2!) by any means, but what it did have was amazing students and parents, as well as a friendly country to live in. The salary was very low but so was the cost of living, so it balanced out.

I will also say that another teacher started the same time I did, but she was a woman in her 50's who was taking a sabbatical year from her public high school where she had been teaching at for ages. She, unlike the young teachers, did not cope well at all. She complained about the lack of air conditioning, our lack of technology, the power cuts, etc, etc- basically didn't cope well in a developing country in general. She, unlike me, knew how 'good' school were run and knew the benefits (in her mind) of a teacher union. So she had alot of previous teaching experience to compare our international school to, whereas I didn't really. And, in the end, I was happier than her and lasted much longer at the school. If both of use were to write reviews of our school on ISR, they would be vastly different. But that doesn't mean they aren't both valid- like has been mentioned on this forum, everyone experiences the same situation differently because of our past experiences and our personalities. So I always try to keep this in mind when I read school reviews.

[Flyingpigs]

Thank you all for posting such well thought out and interesting responses. Yolo--I definitely hear you about the school you were at not being Tier 1 or 2 etc. You also make some very interesting points about the older teacher who is set in her ways--having the most difficulty. Makes perfect sense. Perspective, perspective, perspective.
One of my first IT experiences was in a school that I think was similar to your first gig. :) I have never, ever in 30 years of teaching met a more delightful group of students and appreciative parents. Mind you, there was nothing in the classroom :no books, no desks, no chalk, no plugs--nothing. But man, those kids wanted to learn. It also taught me to be creative, resourceful and to make better connections with the kids--the teacher became part of the fabric of their life--being invited home for tea, dinner for example. So-do you think that the school atmosphere, more so than the country is the deal breaker for success for new teachers, going out on their first teaching post?

[shadowjack]

Sid, very few teachers in Canadian teaching programs are non-Canadian. Most are not second-generation immigrants, although there are some. As for an international student in a teaching program, I have never heard of one, but they must exist - at least one. The overseas Canadians I have taught were not going in for teaching. Business, engineering, marketing, law, etc were where they were at, guided by the school counselor and parents. As most parents abroad are there because of their education, they are already directing their kids.

Yolo and Flyingpigs - perspective is everything. I have worked at schools where there have been unhappy teachers who snipe, moan and groan with abandon. Good teachers, but crappy colleagues. I have been at schools where everybody is in tandem, with a mix of good and not-so-good teachers.

What made for success was attitude, patience, and outlook. If you can roll with the punches, go with the flow and still maintain your academic and teaching integrity, you will do well at any school, provided you can teach. If you can't teach, at the good schools the students are soon on to you - and then the admin starts sniffing around...

It isn't so much age or experience - but if I had to hire a teacher with 2 years experience or a teacher with none, I'd hire the teacher with two years, given solid references, simply because they have been through two tougher years and have a better understanding of how things work.

[LadyCanuck]

I graduated from Ontario just a couple of years ago and went straight into the international teaching world. If you end up at a real international school and not some ESL program in Korea or China, you're school sets you up with an a place to live, they take you around, gets you settled and try to make the transition as smooth as possible.

I found it easy. Actually much easier than several friends who ended up in Northern Ontario teaching in small communities, sometimes having 3 or 4 grade levels in a single classroom.

I had also travelled a lot in the past, so I knew what overseas living was like. Most people who break contract early on and peace out, are people who have never travelled somewhere that wasn't all inclusive before, if ever, or they have never been away form their family for an extend period of time. I also imagine that for history teachers it could be a little more difficult if you are having to cover units on local history that you've never studied before, but for subject like math, science, music, drama, art, the subject matter doesn't change.