same sex wife

[nalfc]

It is indeed but last time I visited South Africa I needed my uncles bodyguard to get around and as two women we would be terrified. Perhaps my view of this has been skewed by my experience

[jesatlarge]

ISKL in Malaysia recognizes gay couples and has hired them as teaching couples in the past. Same benefits as "regular" spouses.

[nalfc]

hmm this has got me thinking - do you think a LGB friendly school list would be useful?
Eion you are correct, I did not know it was Christian until after I got the interview, it was then I asked about my partner if she would be welcome or not. Your advice is indeed taken on board!!!

[nalfc]

Oh and I am ruling it out as my friend who has a father very high up in the police advised me to because of the attitudes

[newchapter]

journey61 wrote:
> Dawson, I guess that would depend on what you would consider difficult. I
> think in my research I found one Middle Eastern country in which being gay
> isn't considered illegal. I have friends living in the ME and have no
> personal bias against the ME, but I'm not crazy about the idea of moving to
> a country where I could be thrown into jail, or worse, simply for who I am.
> I've read many articles about this. Here's one if you are interested:
>
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... minalized/
@journey61 - While I am not gay I am a female and understand completely what you're saying. I always respect cultures and traditions of other countries but the ME is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I, too, feel I could end up in jail for some ridiculous reason - like being a Western woman and acting in the way I normally do. I might accidentally kiss my date on the cheek or hold hands while shopping...Glad I'm headed east to Asia..it's much more western.

[Dawson]

NewChapter and Journey61: I understand what you are saying, but you are not going to be arrested for simply being gay here as long as it is not overt. Now I know some might find that a problem, but for me it's not. I'm a gay male and I think that I am as out here as I was in the US. For me that means a few close friends. I never was out to my whole staff because I just didn't feel comfortable with everyone knowing my business. So here it is the same for me, a few close friends know and that's all that need to. What I am trying to say is that I am not hiding my sexuality and I'm not "in the closet". I'm being myself and I'm happy with that. Not everything I do revolves around my sexuality so I can enjoy the culture here. I guess the fact that I don't have a partner makes it easier because I don't have to worry about the visa and stuff like in the OP. I guess my point is that you won't be arrested for being yourself. Also, I don't think it's just the ME. NewChapter, I'm curious because you state you respect the culture, but then say you are glad to be going somewhere "western". If you want to be somewhere western why not just stay in the west. The wonderful thing about being an international teacher is that we can experience cultures that are very different from our own. As a gay male in the ME I have experienced a lot and really seen the culture and I have never felt that my sexuality was going to get me in trouble. One last thing - Journey: I enjoyed your link you posted. That was interesting to see that I was totally wrong about Latin America. They really do have many GLBT friendly countries. Very interesting.

[newchapter]

I don't know, Dawson, maybe being a man (gay or straight) in the ME is a whole lot better than being a woman in the ME. Having lived and traveled abroad I always try to respect other countries and their cultures. But, it's hard for me to 'respect' the oppression of women in many ME countries. (not all, I know) I mean going to the police because you were raped and then YOU are thrown in jail??!! That kind of stuff is just unfathomable to me.

I lived in Tokyo for 5 years and felt very safe and had many gay friends who never felt unsafe in any way. I'm heading back to Asia (not Japan) and just feel that it is safer and more accepting of gays, women, and 'western' culture in general.

I was offered a few jobs in the ME and did consider some of them, but the cultural aspect of being a western woman living in a ME country is something that has to be considered. That issue doesn't even cross my mind when deciding on accepting a position in Asia.

Good luck to you I hope you feel happy and safe where you are!

[National]

@Dawson
You seem to be saying that being gay isn't illegal in the ME as long as it is not overt. While you are right, most countries don't make it illegal to have feelings of attraction to someone of the same sex as you, I think others are arguing about the legality of living a gay life. Most, if not all, ME countries make having any kind of gay physical relationship illegal. So, yes, you can have any feelings you want, but you can't act on them in the ME. This is what I think most people would classify as making being gay illegal.

[eion_padraig]

@Nalfc, I don't know how easy it would be to classify schools as LGB friendly. If you mean do they hire faculty who openly identify as LGB, I think that is one thing. But for instance, I don't know how open even some of my friends are at their work. It hasn't been something I've asked them about specifically. Part of the issue is that it takes a lot of insider information to know that and posting it is a bit less anonymous on these boards. My school has hired openly gay and lesbian faculty on staff. Though someone might be able to deduce my school and my identity from my various postings, I'm not willing to be quite that obvious about it. We've had very helpful contributors who had to go silent when their schools told them they said too much. At least on couple was hired onto staff. I think it's easier to rule out schools based on their identity (religious schools, schools with lots of local students where being LGB is illegal). Even within these schools there may be the occasional exception.

I haven't looked specifically, but I wonder how many schools would post non-discrimination statements. That is often driven by legal concerns in the US, but that would be a clear sign if a school had it.

The part about if it can sponsor dependent visas for same sex marriages is more country specific and easy to find out.

I actually think having your wife on a tourist visa would be very tough from a practical standpoint and rough on the relationship. If you're looking beyond countries that will give her a dependent visa, then you may want to prioritize places she could fine a work visa for herself if she wants/is willing to work. You've said she is non-teaching. Is there a chance she could find her own visa sponsorship or does she have experience that might allow her to work at the school in some other capacity? Development, HR, admissions, etc? Again, this may be very country specific, but I would weigh it as part of the calculus of places to work if I was in your situation. I do know an unhappy spouse can make it difficult to live/work. Often schools do ask what non-teaching spouses intend to do as it tends to be a factor in how long term a person stays.

[shadowjack]

Also to mention that journey61 seems to be single, with no spouse to accompany along. That is a whole other kettle of fish, especially if the spouse is non-teaching. Otherwise, if both are teachers they can be 'roommates' to save money.

Newchapter, being thrown in jail for holding hands in the ME is a MYTH. My wife and I spent 9 years total in the ME in different countries and visited the rest of them. In all of them we held hands and nobody said a word. Take everything you hear about the ME with a grain of salt unless you've been there, or trust the person. Tall tales do exist :-)

[Dawson]

Interesting discussion. I concur with what everyone has written. By all means, you cannot live as a gay person here the same as you would in western countries, that is for sure. However, you can live here and be happy. I guess it all depends on the person. Some people want total freedom to be able to meet that special someone and settle down together while others are fine to meet that person, but keep it private. I guess that's just personal preference. The ME is definitely unique because I think more so than most places it can be a place where you make the wrong person upset and you're time there will be over and you'll be on the next flight out. As westerners we have to be ever mindful that we are not dealing with the same laws and if one decides to become involved in a same-sex relationship it definitely has the potential to be a minefield. Think of it this way. You are seeing someone and then you upset them for some reason. If they are spiteful they could make a lot of trouble for you simply because they are a national and you are not. I don't know of any cases personally, but I'm not naïve enough to believe this doesn't happen. That obviously has to be in the back of the mind at all times of any LGBT person who is residing in the ME. However, again I emphasize that it depends on the person. You have to look at all the factors: location, pay, lifestyle, personal fit to the school, and then decide if it's right. For me I'm happy where I'm at, but I'll be the first to admit that the region as a whole is not going to win any awards for progressive thinking.

[SuzieQ]

There is a same sex female couple at my school in Malaysia, staff and students about 80% Muslim. There could be other issues for you at this school, but if interested, please contact me privately.

[nalfc]

Hi SusieQ - I have sent you a PM (I think)

Thank you