Dawson wrote:
>
> Where did you get that from? I have stated previously that I doubt my school is a
> tier one because it's new and quite small. However, I love it here. It's non-profit
> and everything is based on student learning. A blanket statement such as yours is
> wildly untrue. I happen to love being at a small school where I know many, many
> students even if I don't teach them. Generally tier one schools are going to be
> large. No thanks, I'll take the personal interaction with all students at my grade
> level any day over some faux badge of honor this supposed tier system invokes. What
> is hilarious to me is that there is no national organization that is in the business
> of ranking schools. Unlike the magazine US News and World Report which releases a
> best colleges list every year we don't have that. We just have our opinions. Since
> we are all different there is no right answer to a top school. It depends on the
> fit. If you are just looking for tier one schools then I feel sorry for you because
> you might miss out on wonderful experiences at a school that is not on this imaginary
> list.
Hi Dawson,
In response to your question "Where did I get that from?" I think you'll notice that most posters here would agree with my statement that highly-tiered (I didn't say only tier 1) schools generally treat teachers more professionally and make decisions based on student well-being. Of course there are exceptions to every general statement, which is why I don't try to present it as a universal truth. I believe that I simply summarized a sentiment generally held by most posters here.
Can I ask you a question? It sounds like you work at a great school. What if the exact same school is located in a better part of the city, gives teachers almost unlimited PD budgets, encourages and readily funds teachers to dream up new and more hands-on ways to teach the curriculum, throughout the year partners and collaborates with exciting businesses or NGOs in your country, builds more extensive science/robotics/engineering labs, gives students opportunities to do original research, regularly brings in experts to speak to the community, pays professional coaches to coach sports instead of teachers or gives teachers a generous stipend if they qualify, is visited by over 250 college reps per year, has higher admission standards (in fact many of your best students transfer there when there is an opening), has class SAT averages that are 400 points better than your median, has an average teacher retention of 6+ years, pays teachers a salary that allows them to save 3 times the amount you currently save, and provides teacher housing twice the size of your housing? If I asked you which school was the best in your city, what would you say? Would it be fair to say that both schools are fine, but that they might be categorized differently? Wouldn't it be fair to say that most teachers who are in this for the right reasons would be drawn to the second school? I think the answer is obvious, and there is nothing wrong with putting schools in tiers. I look forward to your response.
The concept of Tiered Schools
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Flyingpigs
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Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
The point I was trying to make is that labelling schools as Tier 1, implies that they are better schools and that teachers all should want/do want to teach there--and if you DO work there, by default, you must be a great teacher. I think if you can handle yourself at a lower tiered school,or unrated school-- you become a better teacher.
Its easy to do a lesson with a smart board, the internet , kids who are all motivated, entitled keeners from rich families clutching their macs....its not so easy to do a lesson with no chalk, no books, no electricity and no desks.
Its easy to do a lesson with a smart board, the internet , kids who are all motivated, entitled keeners from rich families clutching their macs....its not so easy to do a lesson with no chalk, no books, no electricity and no desks.
Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
I don't agree that Tier 1 schools have only motivated students. I've seen that, and I've also seen quite the opposite. In my mind, Tier 1 is about what the school offers to students, not what the students offer to teachers.
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Flyingpigs
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Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
Sid...I could be wrong, I am on occasion :) but from what I am hearing/reading, the school gets a Tier 1 rating, by what it offers the teachers.
Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
Having worked at a few Tier 1/elite schools, here is my take:
Tier 1 schools have a strong focus on learning. Everything they do is driven by their school mission and vision. The teachers at these schools follow the best practices, be it curriculum, instruction or assessment. They integrate technology wisely to engage students both inside and outside the classroom. They have a strong culture of collaboration, professional development, and educational leadership.
A vast majority of students not only get top grades, but also have solid interpersonal and communication skills. Their graduates major in a wide range of disciplines at colleges of world repute and their alumni have strong links to their alma mater.
These schools use feedback from their past graduates to enhance their current pedagogical practices. These schools also offer an equally rigorous challenge outside the classroom.
Of course, they do take good care of their teachers and staff and exercise greater transparency and consistency in their day to day professional life.
Tier 1 schools have a strong focus on learning. Everything they do is driven by their school mission and vision. The teachers at these schools follow the best practices, be it curriculum, instruction or assessment. They integrate technology wisely to engage students both inside and outside the classroom. They have a strong culture of collaboration, professional development, and educational leadership.
A vast majority of students not only get top grades, but also have solid interpersonal and communication skills. Their graduates major in a wide range of disciplines at colleges of world repute and their alumni have strong links to their alma mater.
These schools use feedback from their past graduates to enhance their current pedagogical practices. These schools also offer an equally rigorous challenge outside the classroom.
Of course, they do take good care of their teachers and staff and exercise greater transparency and consistency in their day to day professional life.
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Cheery Littlebottom
- Posts: 207
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Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
We were very lucky to get interviews with 2 "Tier 1" schools which happened to be two out of the three schools we most wanted to work in. As we are both experienced IS teachers, we know ourselves better than we could possibly hope to know the schools we applied to - and this is important, I think.
With one, we had huge "red flags." Many questions about conflict resolution and what we would do if the school went in a certain direction and we didn't like it etc etc.
We took the jobs at the other, and the more we discover the happier we are.
I agree that there are so many different aspects to this: building a career, opportunities to be innovative, concerns about money, liking your location, tolerance of stress etc etc. The ethos of the school and your fit into it are very important, but I do think that Nikkors check list pretty much nails some of the ideal circumstances for a good education, and therefore gives a good picture of a Tier 1. As to the others, 2 and 3, I think that good leadership is probably the distinguishing characteristic, with the implicit suggestion being that the 2's want to be 1's!
With one, we had huge "red flags." Many questions about conflict resolution and what we would do if the school went in a certain direction and we didn't like it etc etc.
We took the jobs at the other, and the more we discover the happier we are.
I agree that there are so many different aspects to this: building a career, opportunities to be innovative, concerns about money, liking your location, tolerance of stress etc etc. The ethos of the school and your fit into it are very important, but I do think that Nikkors check list pretty much nails some of the ideal circumstances for a good education, and therefore gives a good picture of a Tier 1. As to the others, 2 and 3, I think that good leadership is probably the distinguishing characteristic, with the implicit suggestion being that the 2's want to be 1's!
Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
"Its easy to do a lesson with a smart board, the internet , kids who are all motivated, entitled keeners from rich families clutching their macs....its not so easy to do a lesson with no chalk, no books, no electricity and no desks."
I'd just like to suggest that if you work from the premise that what is best for students is to have a healthy, happy community around them, this will automatically mean that teachers have what they need to have in order to teach. If you accept the premise that good teachers teach because they find it rewarding to help students learn, then it will be pretty important to have on hand the tools, materials and supplies needed to do one's job. Avoids the distraction of how to teach science with no beakers or chemicals, how to plan art lessons around only a ream of paper and how to teach PE without a dedicated space. There is all of this and worse. To my way of thinking, the phrase 'tier 3' is a form of short-hand for problems of this scale. We can debate 'tier 2' but to my way of thinking, there should be no doubt as to answering the question of "What's it like to teach there?" in terms of the types of challenges you are going to face at a 'tier 1' versus a 'tier 3'. One set of challenges should have some reward to it. The other is very likely to leave you feeling sucked dry with neither results nor cash to show for it.
I'd just like to suggest that if you work from the premise that what is best for students is to have a healthy, happy community around them, this will automatically mean that teachers have what they need to have in order to teach. If you accept the premise that good teachers teach because they find it rewarding to help students learn, then it will be pretty important to have on hand the tools, materials and supplies needed to do one's job. Avoids the distraction of how to teach science with no beakers or chemicals, how to plan art lessons around only a ream of paper and how to teach PE without a dedicated space. There is all of this and worse. To my way of thinking, the phrase 'tier 3' is a form of short-hand for problems of this scale. We can debate 'tier 2' but to my way of thinking, there should be no doubt as to answering the question of "What's it like to teach there?" in terms of the types of challenges you are going to face at a 'tier 1' versus a 'tier 3'. One set of challenges should have some reward to it. The other is very likely to leave you feeling sucked dry with neither results nor cash to show for it.
Last edited by redrider on Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Flyingpigs
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Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
Redrider...good teachers teach because they value learning, and education and the well being of their students. Unfortunately not everyone is fortunate enough to live in countries where the infrastructure is such that their schools have desks, let alone beakers!!! In fact, I would hazard a guess that there are way more schools without reliable electricity than with. My point is that a teacher who can make a science lesson without science equipment ( for example) is a good teacher indeed. You are right it would be 'pretty important to have on hand' the accoutrements that you describe--its just a bit of a shame that in some countries that would be like asking for the moon. And regards to the rewards? Teaching in a school with nothing, and making a go of it is the most rewarding teaching you will ever do, because the joy on the kids faces is worth its weight in gold.
Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
Teaching in a school with nothing,
> and making a go of it is the most rewarding teaching you will ever do, because the
> joy on the kids faces is worth its weight in gold.
When I taught in a school that did not have those resources, in spite of my best efforts to hide what we were lacking, the students KNEW what they could not do for want of tools and materials, they had been to other schools before. Their parents paid a lot of money for them to be there and still their work was limited by very basic wants. I actually did NOT find that experience rewarding, giving 5 times the effort because of simple, easily solved and unnecessary problems.
Lack of supplies, tools and dedicated working space have also been cited as evident when they occur in the subject reports for what I teach in DP. Examiners can spot it too.
> and making a go of it is the most rewarding teaching you will ever do, because the
> joy on the kids faces is worth its weight in gold.
When I taught in a school that did not have those resources, in spite of my best efforts to hide what we were lacking, the students KNEW what they could not do for want of tools and materials, they had been to other schools before. Their parents paid a lot of money for them to be there and still their work was limited by very basic wants. I actually did NOT find that experience rewarding, giving 5 times the effort because of simple, easily solved and unnecessary problems.
Lack of supplies, tools and dedicated working space have also been cited as evident when they occur in the subject reports for what I teach in DP. Examiners can spot it too.
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Flyingpigs
- Posts: 87
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Re: The concept of Tiered Schools
Ahh ok--well yes, but thats a whole other kettle o' fish. Parents paying money to a school that is mismanaged and misappropriates funds is never ok, and of course, you are correct--that would be an impossible situation for any teacher. Definitely that does not make the school a Tier 1.
Thats not what my post was about--I am talking about the rural schools. The schools in a big part of India, Africa, China--the schools that nobody has heard of, the schools that have nothing...and are totally unable to compete on the world stage...I am talking about the kids in those kind of schools. Which is, I realize as I write this--nothing to do with this forum, or even this website. This website is called "international schools review" and the type of school I am talking about is so far removed from that position they would never be discussed here. I am on a completely different tangent--I will come down from my soap box and shut up now....mea culpa. :) ( however, if you ever do get a chance to go and work for one of those types of schools--its pretty friggin great from a teaching perspective--just sayin')
Thats not what my post was about--I am talking about the rural schools. The schools in a big part of India, Africa, China--the schools that nobody has heard of, the schools that have nothing...and are totally unable to compete on the world stage...I am talking about the kids in those kind of schools. Which is, I realize as I write this--nothing to do with this forum, or even this website. This website is called "international schools review" and the type of school I am talking about is so far removed from that position they would never be discussed here. I am on a completely different tangent--I will come down from my soap box and shut up now....mea culpa. :) ( however, if you ever do get a chance to go and work for one of those types of schools--its pretty friggin great from a teaching perspective--just sayin')