Hi! This is my first time applying for international jobs and I have a question about the school reviews. I know that reviews are subjective and I try to take them all with a grain of salt, but I was curious if anyone here has had an experience where they took a job at a school with less than stellar reviews and were pleasantly surprised.
Obviously if a school has dozens of similar or recent reviews that sends a clear picture, but many of the schools I am looking at have only two or three reviews or their reviews are several years old. I keep finding myself in the situation where I see a perfect position in a country I want, only to get on ISR and read a couple outdated and/or negative reviews. It's a little discouraging. Any advice or words of wisdom? Thanks!
Do reviews always match reality?
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Cheery Littlebottom
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 8:32 am
I suppose peoples' perceptions ARE their reality. I have worked in schools when I have been really quite contented, and been gobsmacked to see virulent reviews which seem to make no reference to reality (as I see it) whatsoever.
Let me give you an example. In many countries, particularly in the Middle East, the school takes your passport away to put in various stamps/visas/permits etc. Also, the sponsored person (usually the husband in a teaching couple) needs an exit permit to leave the country. In my personal experience, this system has been fine. We have never had a problem, the HR department have always been very efficient. (Despite this positive experience, I do find it increasingly irritating.) But some people absolutely cannot tolerate this. If they arrived without having done their research, they will complain long and hard, and often on ISR as though they were living in a high security prison!
There are many examples of things like this: A run in with a colleague, a bad experience at a local hospital, the first experience of third world bureaucracy, the necessity to work in step with colleagues instead of doing your own thing, common assessments, a less rigid approach to discipline. All of these things can be total deal breakers for different individuals.
However, poor reviews that consistently refer to the following would, in my opinion, be worth paying attention to;
a. Written, signed contracts which are then broken.
b. A lack of a school handbook with at least SOME written systems.
c. Non-renewal/firing without a proper process of observation, training and
support to enable improvement.
d. Persistent interference by the school board in the implementation (rather than the setting) of school policy.
d. Reviewers who begin by saying that they have had a credible career in several international schools.
When you read reviews, put them into context. I worked in a school in a country where there was a political coup. There was considerable civil disruption and even some violence. The school dealt with it very well. But you must appreciate that a rapidly falling school roll (as the companies and diplomatic institutions bail out their people) will have a knock-on effect, if not immediately (as fees will have been paid) but potentially the following year if the students stay away.
In a way, pulling together as a community and adopting a "Keep Calm and Carry On" attitude gives you a tremendous feeling of achievement and group spirit. Either that or you are freaking out and writing bad reviews!
Another context you should try to be aware of is if the school is a start up. Schools try to find their own unique character, and it takes a HUGE amount of effort and paperwork to get everything up to speed. I always laugh when I read reviews of start ups where the admin recruit previous colleagues and get accused of favoring their mates. Well, if I was throwing my heart and soul into making a school great, then the first thing I'd do is try to hire people I know would do a great job! And then the moaners who are out of their comfort zone put pen to paper.......................
Anyway, sorry, bit of a rant there.
In a nutshell, consider context, consider human nature, and look carefully at the things being moaned about. If you are considering a job in a particular school ask to be put in touch with someone working in a similar job to you, or at least in the same section of the school. You should get a positive response. If this is not met with a positive response, well, you will have to draw your own conclusions...
Good luck!
Cheery XXX
Let me give you an example. In many countries, particularly in the Middle East, the school takes your passport away to put in various stamps/visas/permits etc. Also, the sponsored person (usually the husband in a teaching couple) needs an exit permit to leave the country. In my personal experience, this system has been fine. We have never had a problem, the HR department have always been very efficient. (Despite this positive experience, I do find it increasingly irritating.) But some people absolutely cannot tolerate this. If they arrived without having done their research, they will complain long and hard, and often on ISR as though they were living in a high security prison!
There are many examples of things like this: A run in with a colleague, a bad experience at a local hospital, the first experience of third world bureaucracy, the necessity to work in step with colleagues instead of doing your own thing, common assessments, a less rigid approach to discipline. All of these things can be total deal breakers for different individuals.
However, poor reviews that consistently refer to the following would, in my opinion, be worth paying attention to;
a. Written, signed contracts which are then broken.
b. A lack of a school handbook with at least SOME written systems.
c. Non-renewal/firing without a proper process of observation, training and
support to enable improvement.
d. Persistent interference by the school board in the implementation (rather than the setting) of school policy.
d. Reviewers who begin by saying that they have had a credible career in several international schools.
When you read reviews, put them into context. I worked in a school in a country where there was a political coup. There was considerable civil disruption and even some violence. The school dealt with it very well. But you must appreciate that a rapidly falling school roll (as the companies and diplomatic institutions bail out their people) will have a knock-on effect, if not immediately (as fees will have been paid) but potentially the following year if the students stay away.
In a way, pulling together as a community and adopting a "Keep Calm and Carry On" attitude gives you a tremendous feeling of achievement and group spirit. Either that or you are freaking out and writing bad reviews!
Another context you should try to be aware of is if the school is a start up. Schools try to find their own unique character, and it takes a HUGE amount of effort and paperwork to get everything up to speed. I always laugh when I read reviews of start ups where the admin recruit previous colleagues and get accused of favoring their mates. Well, if I was throwing my heart and soul into making a school great, then the first thing I'd do is try to hire people I know would do a great job! And then the moaners who are out of their comfort zone put pen to paper.......................
Anyway, sorry, bit of a rant there.
In a nutshell, consider context, consider human nature, and look carefully at the things being moaned about. If you are considering a job in a particular school ask to be put in touch with someone working in a similar job to you, or at least in the same section of the school. You should get a positive response. If this is not met with a positive response, well, you will have to draw your own conclusions...
Good luck!
Cheery XXX
Perceptions and therefore realities will always be different. Two souls with differing backgrounds, expectations, experience, outlook will look at the same (partly shared) experience differently. A perspective can even be influenced by a teacher's next experience.
No place or school is perfect. There will always be criticisms. The kind of reviews I would be particularly wary of are those that have nothing good to say about anything (there must surely have been at least one decent colleague there, or one thing to be enjoyed outside of the workplace?), those that are clearly written by the owners or the board or the administration/management who write nothing but joy of wonder comments (they are clever enough to add a negative to make it plausible but are too vain to do so in practice), and those that are compounded by other reviews saying this school is sh1te steer well clear and then change getaway cars for good measure.
Other than that I would read between the lines. And as another poster said, put it into context. And if several reviews refer to downsides that wouldn't bother you in the slightest then count the positives. At the end of the day, it's information - and ISR provides useful information that should never be disregarded as sour grapes (even if it is!!!).
No place or school is perfect. There will always be criticisms. The kind of reviews I would be particularly wary of are those that have nothing good to say about anything (there must surely have been at least one decent colleague there, or one thing to be enjoyed outside of the workplace?), those that are clearly written by the owners or the board or the administration/management who write nothing but joy of wonder comments (they are clever enough to add a negative to make it plausible but are too vain to do so in practice), and those that are compounded by other reviews saying this school is sh1te steer well clear and then change getaway cars for good measure.
Other than that I would read between the lines. And as another poster said, put it into context. And if several reviews refer to downsides that wouldn't bother you in the slightest then count the positives. At the end of the day, it's information - and ISR provides useful information that should never be disregarded as sour grapes (even if it is!!!).
Conditions can change in international schools very quickly. If you were to look at the reviews for my school, one division in particular, you would never come here. For example, my partner has had a horrible last few years with a shrew of a principal. The principal in question left, my partner changed jobs and we are having a wonderful year.
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torialeigh
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:41 pm
Thanks for the great advice! Reading your replies was really reassuring. I am especially thankful for your suggestions on what to really focus on in reviews, and I have a feeling I am going to be re-reading reviews in a different light for the rest of the week.
Even after tons of research, at the end of the day it seems that taking any new job is a leap of faith, but that's all part of the adventure right? :)
Thanks again!
Even after tons of research, at the end of the day it seems that taking any new job is a leap of faith, but that's all part of the adventure right? :)
Thanks again!
Here's one that's harder to spot...
I was just looking at reviews today for a school in a city I know very well. I don't know the school, just the city.
There were at least 5 reviews that banged on and on about how awful the school was, making very similar claims in each one, but in different words and style. Judging on style, it appeared to be multiple different people posting similar opinions.
But, those reviews all also banged on about certain awful things about the city, which I know for a fact are not true. The crime rate is minuscule, but the posts all claimed lots of personal crime and dangers of muggings, car theft and home invasions. There were other claims about the city which I know are absolutely false, and not a question of 'personal belief' either.
So my conclusion is that the negative posts were all by the same person, as there is no way 5 or more people could have reasonably held those views of the city. And since they made up porkies about the city, and posted multiple reviews pretending to be different people, I concluded that I couldn't trust what they said about the school either. Clearly they were very unhappy there, no doubt about that, but considering how deceitful the poster is, I have to wonder if their unhappiness says more about them than about the school.
Which left only a couple of moderate reviews of the school that I could reasonably consider.
But if you are an outsider, with no personal information to use as a checkpoint, how can you spot this sort of thing?
I have real issues with the school reviews on this site. They sometimes do real damage where it's not warranted. With no objective checking going on, they can be a weapon for an unhappy person to unleash real poison.
Think about it... Have you ever seen a review that admitted the poster was a pretty weak teacher, or had made any real mistakes, or done anything wrong at all? They only flaw they ever claim is 'I didn't do my research'. Every problem lies with the school, the admin, the students, the parents, the board ... anywhere but the teacher. But that's not reality. There are bad teachers, just like there are bad admin, bad schools and bad everything else. But on the ISR reviews, all teachers are presumed to be good, and their side of the story is presented as the real and complete version of events. I find that usually the truth is not so one-sided.
I was just looking at reviews today for a school in a city I know very well. I don't know the school, just the city.
There were at least 5 reviews that banged on and on about how awful the school was, making very similar claims in each one, but in different words and style. Judging on style, it appeared to be multiple different people posting similar opinions.
But, those reviews all also banged on about certain awful things about the city, which I know for a fact are not true. The crime rate is minuscule, but the posts all claimed lots of personal crime and dangers of muggings, car theft and home invasions. There were other claims about the city which I know are absolutely false, and not a question of 'personal belief' either.
So my conclusion is that the negative posts were all by the same person, as there is no way 5 or more people could have reasonably held those views of the city. And since they made up porkies about the city, and posted multiple reviews pretending to be different people, I concluded that I couldn't trust what they said about the school either. Clearly they were very unhappy there, no doubt about that, but considering how deceitful the poster is, I have to wonder if their unhappiness says more about them than about the school.
Which left only a couple of moderate reviews of the school that I could reasonably consider.
But if you are an outsider, with no personal information to use as a checkpoint, how can you spot this sort of thing?
I have real issues with the school reviews on this site. They sometimes do real damage where it's not warranted. With no objective checking going on, they can be a weapon for an unhappy person to unleash real poison.
Think about it... Have you ever seen a review that admitted the poster was a pretty weak teacher, or had made any real mistakes, or done anything wrong at all? They only flaw they ever claim is 'I didn't do my research'. Every problem lies with the school, the admin, the students, the parents, the board ... anywhere but the teacher. But that's not reality. There are bad teachers, just like there are bad admin, bad schools and bad everything else. But on the ISR reviews, all teachers are presumed to be good, and their side of the story is presented as the real and complete version of events. I find that usually the truth is not so one-sided.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
sid, I always take the crime stuff with a grain of salt. Some schools and people get fed the "crime situation" is "horrible". Living overseas, when something happened in the region, friends and family would hurry to contact me, even though the event was 3 countries over!
My last school, many people posted that there wasn't much to do. Yet had I chosen, I could have been out every night of the week doing different things. Most teachers came in to teach, went to school, went home to the gilded cage, and washed rinsed repeated for their two years. The school really liked it that way.
Take it all with a grain of salt, unless you get the same message about the teaching, students, etc from a wide range of posters. In the end, however, caveat emptor!
My last school, many people posted that there wasn't much to do. Yet had I chosen, I could have been out every night of the week doing different things. Most teachers came in to teach, went to school, went home to the gilded cage, and washed rinsed repeated for their two years. The school really liked it that way.
Take it all with a grain of salt, unless you get the same message about the teaching, students, etc from a wide range of posters. In the end, however, caveat emptor!