Most of us are in the full swing of research for the upcoming year. Websites of schools, reviews of directors etc. etc.
As an IBDP teacher I like to look at schools results because the IB does not rank schools. I have come across a school which must be the top performer. If I am wrong, I look forward to reading about a school which did better.
Chinese IS HK..... 108 students, avg 38. 40+% score over 40, and the kicker... 7 students with 45
I am not sure why this is not the first thing you see when you open their webpage, but HOLY COW.
Congrats to them, and to anyone that can tell me another school with results that even come close!
Best IBDP results 2013
ALERT!
You have to be very cateful about all such claims about the "best". Let's say in broad terms there are three kinds of schools:
1) Has a selective entrance examination to make sure that their student cohort is in, say, the top twenty percentile
2) Has a more open admissions policy but then selects at the end of G10 to determine which students can go on to take the IB Diploma
3) Has an open admissions policy and encourages all students to try for the IB Diploma - even if they think they may fail
The schools you have quoted as being "the best" are very definitely selective in their intake and quite possibly selective again at the end of G10. Is it any surprise that their students do well? Sadly, in some of these schools in categories 1 and 2, students who are perfectly able to pass the Diploma but are discouraged from trying because the school in question prides itself on its IB Diploma average score.
To my mind, when a student of fairly limited ability manages to cross the IB Diploma finish line with 24 points and has worked and struggled and scrambled to do so, then that is a just as big an achievement as a gifted student working in a rarified, selective environment and collecting 45 points. And it is at least as strong a testimony to the quality of teaching and support in that school.
1) Has a selective entrance examination to make sure that their student cohort is in, say, the top twenty percentile
2) Has a more open admissions policy but then selects at the end of G10 to determine which students can go on to take the IB Diploma
3) Has an open admissions policy and encourages all students to try for the IB Diploma - even if they think they may fail
The schools you have quoted as being "the best" are very definitely selective in their intake and quite possibly selective again at the end of G10. Is it any surprise that their students do well? Sadly, in some of these schools in categories 1 and 2, students who are perfectly able to pass the Diploma but are discouraged from trying because the school in question prides itself on its IB Diploma average score.
To my mind, when a student of fairly limited ability manages to cross the IB Diploma finish line with 24 points and has worked and struggled and scrambled to do so, then that is a just as big an achievement as a gifted student working in a rarified, selective environment and collecting 45 points. And it is at least as strong a testimony to the quality of teaching and support in that school.
I am quite unsure about being "cateful" about what were the "best" [b]results[/b]. It is a very quantifiable thing.
As a teacher I am happy to help every student achieve the diploma (even the barely making it!), but this thread had nothing to do with that. It must be obvious to anyone who can add that the ib average hovers around 30 and ACS averages 41 therefore they must be selective with the nearly 460+ students taking the exam. Most schools are jump up and down excited when they get scores over 40!
ACS may well be a great factory for the super smart, but there is nothing wrong with that. We need NASA engineers as well as trash collectors in this world.
As a teacher I am happy to help every student achieve the diploma (even the barely making it!), but this thread had nothing to do with that. It must be obvious to anyone who can add that the ib average hovers around 30 and ACS averages 41 therefore they must be selective with the nearly 460+ students taking the exam. Most schools are jump up and down excited when they get scores over 40!
ACS may well be a great factory for the super smart, but there is nothing wrong with that. We need NASA engineers as well as trash collectors in this world.
Smelling Pistakes
Sorry Briz,
Using a tablet in a car doesn't aid accuracy. And I'm still in a car, so be kind about my spelling.
I really think you are missing the point of what I am saying. In simple terms, a school's IB Diploma average scores depend upon three factors: the quality of the student cohort; the quality of the teaching; the quality of the resources and support systems in the school. Of these three, by far the most important is #1. In other words, really smart kids tend to get really good scores.
I've had students in my subject who have got 7s probably despite me rather than because of me. I've always been prouder when a student of mine has got a 4 rather than the 3 that most people (including the student) would have expected. Then I think that I may have made a difference.
As for your comment about NASA engineers versus trash collectors, I would say a couple of things:
1) Kids who pass the IB Diploma - even with 24 points - rarely end up us trash collectors. (And the world needs all sorts.)
2) There is no evidence that those who score 40+ points in the two schools that are cited by the OP wouldn't have got the same score in more diverse environments.
Fact is that in the school where I work we have dozens of kids in the 40+ range every year, but we also have kids for whom the IB is a real challenge and who struggle to get the 24 points they need. School quality is much more about the added value we bring to the education of the student than simply a raw score count of IB Diploma points.
Using a tablet in a car doesn't aid accuracy. And I'm still in a car, so be kind about my spelling.
I really think you are missing the point of what I am saying. In simple terms, a school's IB Diploma average scores depend upon three factors: the quality of the student cohort; the quality of the teaching; the quality of the resources and support systems in the school. Of these three, by far the most important is #1. In other words, really smart kids tend to get really good scores.
I've had students in my subject who have got 7s probably despite me rather than because of me. I've always been prouder when a student of mine has got a 4 rather than the 3 that most people (including the student) would have expected. Then I think that I may have made a difference.
As for your comment about NASA engineers versus trash collectors, I would say a couple of things:
1) Kids who pass the IB Diploma - even with 24 points - rarely end up us trash collectors. (And the world needs all sorts.)
2) There is no evidence that those who score 40+ points in the two schools that are cited by the OP wouldn't have got the same score in more diverse environments.
Fact is that in the school where I work we have dozens of kids in the 40+ range every year, but we also have kids for whom the IB is a real challenge and who struggle to get the 24 points they need. School quality is much more about the added value we bring to the education of the student than simply a raw score count of IB Diploma points.
Walter, as I said before, your point was well understood, just not relevant to what I posted. As I was the OP, I merely wanted to find out what school had better results, not what constituted the best school. Like or dislike it, IBDP students get scored, and schools have statistics. There is not an IB list of school results that I have found, this thread was meant only to see if a school had more 45's than CIS. ACS having 37 definitely answered my question.
I understand Briz's point that there is some objective winner in terms of which school got the 'best' average and most 45s. Of course there is. Any time we put numbers on things, we can determine a winner.
I also take heart from Walter's comments, as I see it the same way. I like schools that do the most with a wide range of students. We push, cajole, coax and support the weaker student farther than they ever dreamed, and we do the same with those in the middle and those at the top.
The truth is, though, that the ones in the bottom and the middle tend to need us far more than the ones at the top. The students who earn 45, they would do well in pretty much any reasonable environment. They'll be fine. They don't need me. Maybe it takes a certain teacher or school to ensure they get a 45 instead of a 43, but how much difference is there really?
The students who struggle, who know that success isn't guaranteed, those are the ones who need me. And I place great stock in schools who help those students 'be all they can be', instead of spending all their time on the 5% of students who would be fine no matter what.
We may need NASA scientists (though we might debate that another time), but if my work helps a student prepare for a better future than he would otherwise have had, I can be proud of what I do. Isn't that what we're here for?
To me, the best school gets amazing results from a wide range of students. And that can't be easily captured by looking at who has the highest DP average.
I also take heart from Walter's comments, as I see it the same way. I like schools that do the most with a wide range of students. We push, cajole, coax and support the weaker student farther than they ever dreamed, and we do the same with those in the middle and those at the top.
The truth is, though, that the ones in the bottom and the middle tend to need us far more than the ones at the top. The students who earn 45, they would do well in pretty much any reasonable environment. They'll be fine. They don't need me. Maybe it takes a certain teacher or school to ensure they get a 45 instead of a 43, but how much difference is there really?
The students who struggle, who know that success isn't guaranteed, those are the ones who need me. And I place great stock in schools who help those students 'be all they can be', instead of spending all their time on the 5% of students who would be fine no matter what.
We may need NASA scientists (though we might debate that another time), but if my work helps a student prepare for a better future than he would otherwise have had, I can be proud of what I do. Isn't that what we're here for?
To me, the best school gets amazing results from a wide range of students. And that can't be easily captured by looking at who has the highest DP average.
Two great examples here:
Sevenoaks is a highly selective, English, independent, boarding/day school whose student population is intentionally skewed toward the high-achieving. (Read the admissions criteria on their website.)
IS Brussels is a diverse, multi-cultural, international school whose student population contains those who are academically gifted along with those who have learning challenges - and all ability levels in between.
Sevenoaks has an IB Diploma average of 39; IS Brussels has an IB Diploma average of 34. Which school obtains the better results? And here's a braver question: which school is being more true to the mission of the IB?
IS Brussels is a diverse, multi-cultural, international school whose student population contains those who are academically gifted along with those who have learning challenges - and all ability levels in between.
Sevenoaks has an IB Diploma average of 39; IS Brussels has an IB Diploma average of 34. Which school obtains the better results? And here's a braver question: which school is being more true to the mission of the IB?
I know Walter has a problem with a school being selective, but as the IB DP program is ultimately result oriented, One cannot dispute that a 38 is better than a 34. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the mission of the IB is being portrayed by any school. It is however saying to that student wanting to utilize the IB program to help them obtain admission to Cambridge or Harvard (etc.) that they probably have a better opportunity to work with students striving for the same goals they are in schools with a 41+ average. If this is not that student, then they will not be admitted, and they shouldn't go there in the first place. It does not make a place better because they cater to this elite academic crowd, it just makes them a school which caters to that student who wishes to achieve at a higher level than a 34.
It is just math. Emotions and "IB mission" is irrelevant to statistical -. The IB does not publish the results. It doesn't mean the results are not there.
A student making a 45 is one hellava achievement! I do not care how selective you are, getting 37 in one school is AMAZING!
It is just math. Emotions and "IB mission" is irrelevant to statistical -. The IB does not publish the results. It doesn't mean the results are not there.
A student making a 45 is one hellava achievement! I do not care how selective you are, getting 37 in one school is AMAZING!
Briz: It does not make a place better because they cater to this elite academic crowd, it just makes them a school which caters to that student who wishes to achieve at a higher level than a 34.
I agree completely. It makes them worse. It may make them easier to work in, students all quiet and hard-working, parents ready to back up anything the teacher offers up. But it doesn't make them better schools.
Briz: One cannot dispute that a 38 is better than a 34.
I can and do. For a certain student, a 34 is the absolute best achievement that she could do, and represents her blood, sweat and tears over the full length of the program. For another, 38 was relatively easy. If she'd worked as hard as our 34-pointer, she'd have gotten a 44. But she didn't. Which one am I more proud of, as a parent, teacher or innocent bystander? The 34 pointer. Which would I prefer to hire, as an employer? In most circumstances, the 34 pointer. Who wants a lazy employee who coasts by on 'good enough'?
I agree completely. It makes them worse. It may make them easier to work in, students all quiet and hard-working, parents ready to back up anything the teacher offers up. But it doesn't make them better schools.
Briz: One cannot dispute that a 38 is better than a 34.
I can and do. For a certain student, a 34 is the absolute best achievement that she could do, and represents her blood, sweat and tears over the full length of the program. For another, 38 was relatively easy. If she'd worked as hard as our 34-pointer, she'd have gotten a 44. But she didn't. Which one am I more proud of, as a parent, teacher or innocent bystander? The 34 pointer. Which would I prefer to hire, as an employer? In most circumstances, the 34 pointer. Who wants a lazy employee who coasts by on 'good enough'?
[quote="Briz"] It does not make a place better because they cater to this elite academic crowd, it just makes them a school which caters to that student who wishes to achieve at a higher level than a 34.[/quote]
Thanks sid, that is exactly what I said.
Seriously this thread was only meant to ask who had achieved beter results than CIS, apparently there are 2 schools. I personally think that is an amazing acievement.
Thanks sid, that is exactly what I said.
Seriously this thread was only meant to ask who had achieved beter results than CIS, apparently there are 2 schools. I personally think that is an amazing acievement.
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powderfinger
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:31 am
If you are interested in working in schools that post good scores, Hong Kong has quite a few:
http://hongkong.geoschools.com/articles ... sults-2013
In terms of mere averages, CIS was not the highest in Hong Kong last year, but as has been mentioned, there are several ways to measure success.
http://hongkong.geoschools.com/articles ... sults-2013
In terms of mere averages, CIS was not the highest in Hong Kong last year, but as has been mentioned, there are several ways to measure success.
As a matter of fact, there are not 2 but 4 schools in HK alone with better average scores than CIS. But all of those students are selected to take the IB exams unlike CIS which is for all students. You can see the details here with additional information on which program provide non-IB DP options.
http://www.edu-kingdom.com/forum.php?mo ... a=page%3D1
http://www.edu-kingdom.com/forum.php?mo ... a=page%3D1