I'm wondering about safety. Not petty crime (which you can find in any large city in one form or another), but safety as in "you have an actual chance of getting killed".
I suppose with the recent events such as those in Kenya and Nigeria it is important to evaluate this. So, off the top of your head, which are some places international teachers should probably avoid due to safety?
Again, I'm talking about "you might get killed" safety, and not "you might get mugged at one point or another" safety (which happens in my hometown in the US all the time).
I.e. I have no idea on: is Egypt safe? What about countries like Bahrain? Bangladesh? Which countries in Middle East in general can be dubbed as "safe"? Which african countries are safe? Asia? Latin America?
When safety comes first; countries you should avoid.
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chemteacher101
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happygolucky
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This is pretty relative considering ISR has reviews that include crime stories in places you wouldn't expect (at least two high profile ones in Qatar for example).
I would think anywhere where there is a potential for violence is a safety issue:
Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, Algeria, Libya, Syria, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador all spring to mind immediately for example.
I would think anywhere where there is a potential for violence is a safety issue:
Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, Algeria, Libya, Syria, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador all spring to mind immediately for example.
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Cheery Littlebottom
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Hi
I can speak to several of those countries.
Bahrain is pretty safe. The events there were localised and if you did not deliberately involve yourself and stayed home you would've been fine.
Bangladesh is fairly safe on a day to day basis. Trouble will rapidly develop if you get into an accident in which you hurt someone. Then, the advice is to keep driving, no matter what, until you are inside the US Embassy. Justice is usually meted out as a fatal beating to drivers who kill or injure someone (mainly because justice comes in no other form for the majority of Bengalis so the law is taken into their hands.)
Qatar is very safe, politically. About 7 years ago a lone loony with mental health issues bombed a theatre. As far as I know, no other "terrorist" style events have ever occurred there. There was a recent murder of a teacher, but with no "Qatar-specific" circumstances, it was just the sort of tragedy that could have happened anywhere.
Egypt is probably fine in the cities, but I hear from various sources that you'd be a freakin' idiot to travel into the Sinai right now. It was fairly lawless before but you'd definitely be a target now.
As in all these places, and many more, your biggest risk BY FAR is road traffic accidents. In many of the Gulf states the roads are lethal. They are a combination of being in fairly good nick, and populated by arrogant ****wits in extraordinarily powerful cars and 4x4s, often aged as young as 13 or 14, driving as though you are a mere mirage on the tarmac.
You are far more likely to be murdered by a local in a LandCruiser than a terrorist. And it's just as likely that he'll get off scott-free cos the incestuous cousin of his camels granny is the judge.
I can speak to several of those countries.
Bahrain is pretty safe. The events there were localised and if you did not deliberately involve yourself and stayed home you would've been fine.
Bangladesh is fairly safe on a day to day basis. Trouble will rapidly develop if you get into an accident in which you hurt someone. Then, the advice is to keep driving, no matter what, until you are inside the US Embassy. Justice is usually meted out as a fatal beating to drivers who kill or injure someone (mainly because justice comes in no other form for the majority of Bengalis so the law is taken into their hands.)
Qatar is very safe, politically. About 7 years ago a lone loony with mental health issues bombed a theatre. As far as I know, no other "terrorist" style events have ever occurred there. There was a recent murder of a teacher, but with no "Qatar-specific" circumstances, it was just the sort of tragedy that could have happened anywhere.
Egypt is probably fine in the cities, but I hear from various sources that you'd be a freakin' idiot to travel into the Sinai right now. It was fairly lawless before but you'd definitely be a target now.
As in all these places, and many more, your biggest risk BY FAR is road traffic accidents. In many of the Gulf states the roads are lethal. They are a combination of being in fairly good nick, and populated by arrogant ****wits in extraordinarily powerful cars and 4x4s, often aged as young as 13 or 14, driving as though you are a mere mirage on the tarmac.
You are far more likely to be murdered by a local in a LandCruiser than a terrorist. And it's just as likely that he'll get off scott-free cos the incestuous cousin of his camels granny is the judge.
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chemteacher101
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- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 pm
Avoid the US. Boston marathon, Oklahoma City, Sep 11. Batman movies.
And the UK. July 7 bombings.
France. Apparently at the top of Al Qaeda's list. And the annual summer youth riots are pretty nasty.
Sweden. Immigrant riots and burning cars all summer.
Germany. Racist attacks in the streets.
Or ask yourself: Does a mall attack actually increase my chances of dying in a violent incident in that country? Or perhaps decrease it as security and awareness rise in the aftermath?
I have the deepest sympathy for those involved in these tragedies. And I refuse to succumb to the thought, however comforting, that I can just plan my life carefully and avoid ever being caught in one myself. The lunatics who plan these sorts of violence are looking for soft and unexpected targets. Would you have advised someone to avoid the World Trade Centers prior to Sep 11? Not go to a Batman movie? The whole idea is that you can't see it coming.
If you're worried about risks, look to the quantifiable ones. Rates of death in car accidents. Violent crime rates. And look to what you can control - can I get a safe car, wear a seatbelt and drive carefully, and therefore lower my risk to acceptable levels, while people around me die after driving into a central reservation with no seatbelt on? I'm no more likely to do that if I leave my home country, even if it is a common activity where I go. Someone may hit my car, but if it's a safe car, and I have my seatbelt and airbags, there's only a small chance they can hit me badly enough to ruin or end my life.
And the UK. July 7 bombings.
France. Apparently at the top of Al Qaeda's list. And the annual summer youth riots are pretty nasty.
Sweden. Immigrant riots and burning cars all summer.
Germany. Racist attacks in the streets.
Or ask yourself: Does a mall attack actually increase my chances of dying in a violent incident in that country? Or perhaps decrease it as security and awareness rise in the aftermath?
I have the deepest sympathy for those involved in these tragedies. And I refuse to succumb to the thought, however comforting, that I can just plan my life carefully and avoid ever being caught in one myself. The lunatics who plan these sorts of violence are looking for soft and unexpected targets. Would you have advised someone to avoid the World Trade Centers prior to Sep 11? Not go to a Batman movie? The whole idea is that you can't see it coming.
If you're worried about risks, look to the quantifiable ones. Rates of death in car accidents. Violent crime rates. And look to what you can control - can I get a safe car, wear a seatbelt and drive carefully, and therefore lower my risk to acceptable levels, while people around me die after driving into a central reservation with no seatbelt on? I'm no more likely to do that if I leave my home country, even if it is a common activity where I go. Someone may hit my car, but if it's a safe car, and I have my seatbelt and airbags, there's only a small chance they can hit me badly enough to ruin or end my life.
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chemteacher101
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Sid, I understand your point, but at the same time I don't think that all of the examples you mention are comparable.
Is Nairobi a city where bullets are flying around you and everyone is a criminal? Surely not, but the fact that it has an armed civil conflict which takes place partially in the cities does make it a place where you are more likely to be at risk than say Beijing.
Of course we can look at what we can control, but sometimes there are patterns to what we cannot control. One thing is a random event where a lunatic walks into a movie and shoots people, and another thing is living in a place with a high political unrest and a tracked history of deaths related to its internal conflict...
Is Nairobi a city where bullets are flying around you and everyone is a criminal? Surely not, but the fact that it has an armed civil conflict which takes place partially in the cities does make it a place where you are more likely to be at risk than say Beijing.
Of course we can look at what we can control, but sometimes there are patterns to what we cannot control. One thing is a random event where a lunatic walks into a movie and shoots people, and another thing is living in a place with a high political unrest and a tracked history of deaths related to its internal conflict...
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vettievette
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- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 am
Safety is quite subjective. I have a few friends who have either come from or currently working at schools in Uganda, Ghana, Burkina Faso, Tanzania, Mali, Togo, Tunisia (yes, during the looting of the school), and Angola. They all loved their experiences there for the most part w/ exception to when the embassy school in Tunisia was targeted. I think in places like this, the school plays a huge part in what makes the experience a good one or really god-awfully bad. If you look on IS Kenya's facebook page, there is constant outpouring of love and support from families who were there many years ago. To me, that speaks VOLUMES of the impact a school can have and the assumed support of its faculty, particularly in places considered off the beaten path.
Avoid is a strong word. There are quite a few great schools out there that are in countries people are advised to avoid. Just educate yourself about the risks, ask teachers who have been there instead of relying on the US State Department alerts, and decide if it's really for you.
Avoid is a strong word. There are quite a few great schools out there that are in countries people are advised to avoid. Just educate yourself about the risks, ask teachers who have been there instead of relying on the US State Department alerts, and decide if it's really for you.
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Teachermama
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- Location: USA
I'll add my two cents. One of the main reasons I left Salvador Brazil was the safety. The school director who interviewed me tried to claim the school was safe--failing to mention the fact that he had recently had his car stolen at gunpoint right outside the school. One of the music teachers at the school had her car stolen at gunpoint right outside the school last December, and this was the 2nd time she had a car stolen at gunpoint.
A young college student in my guarded condo complex was robbed at gunpoint at the bus stop right outside our gate. Incidents like these (and many other things I disliked about Bahia) made me decide to break contract and return to the States. I don't miss it one bit.
A young college student in my guarded condo complex was robbed at gunpoint at the bus stop right outside our gate. Incidents like these (and many other things I disliked about Bahia) made me decide to break contract and return to the States. I don't miss it one bit.
Reply
Id avoid the USA, its the most dangerous country to live in, especially places like NYC and LA.
Okay otherwise places i wouldnt go would include:
Africa (anywhere out side Capetown and Johannesburg)
The ME (because i like to do things that would get me in trouble)
Anywhere that ends in "stan"
For the other places my solution is simply dont drive. Avoid driving and you make just about anywhere safer. I would add SCA (Brazil and Columbia) but the woman there are worth the risk.
Okay otherwise places i wouldnt go would include:
Africa (anywhere out side Capetown and Johannesburg)
The ME (because i like to do things that would get me in trouble)
Anywhere that ends in "stan"
For the other places my solution is simply dont drive. Avoid driving and you make just about anywhere safer. I would add SCA (Brazil and Columbia) but the woman there are worth the risk.
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jbiersteker
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:38 am
Re: Reply
You can find often find data online about the rate of intentional homicide in a country. Knowing that the murder rate is low certainly makes me feel safer.
I never would have considered moving to Madagascar, but when I looked into it I found out the country is surprisingly safe.
If you don't have a commute to school that makes a huge difference. I think I am safer here is Madagascar than I was in Dubai because I don't have a commute here, and when I do drive the traffic moves pretty slowly.
I never would have considered moving to Madagascar, but when I looked into it I found out the country is surprisingly safe.
If you don't have a commute to school that makes a huge difference. I think I am safer here is Madagascar than I was in Dubai because I don't have a commute here, and when I do drive the traffic moves pretty slowly.
Libya
Libya, obviously.
Since a teacher was actively targeted and shot dead just recently it is clearly a very dangerous country to be in. I left after a spate of car bombings and assassinations in Benghazi -very few of these incidents are reported even locally never mind internationally so family and friends had no idea what was going on. I would avoid the whole of the north African region - Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Chad, Niger and even, to be honest, Morocco although it is possibly the safest.
In Libya there are few international schools and few expats so going there you stand out and attract attention. It is no life living with the daily fear of possible attack or kidnapping and the money simply does not make considering a job there worth the genuine risk. Libya is a hardship post and none of the schools offer packages above average.
If you are considering working in a Muslim country and having to live a restricted lifestyle for a few years you have to consider Saudi Arabia as it is the only one offering above average salaries and packages. Living on a compound is a must as is a decent end of service bonus. Why consider the others if they don't recompense the hardships???
Since a teacher was actively targeted and shot dead just recently it is clearly a very dangerous country to be in. I left after a spate of car bombings and assassinations in Benghazi -very few of these incidents are reported even locally never mind internationally so family and friends had no idea what was going on. I would avoid the whole of the north African region - Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Chad, Niger and even, to be honest, Morocco although it is possibly the safest.
In Libya there are few international schools and few expats so going there you stand out and attract attention. It is no life living with the daily fear of possible attack or kidnapping and the money simply does not make considering a job there worth the genuine risk. Libya is a hardship post and none of the schools offer packages above average.
If you are considering working in a Muslim country and having to live a restricted lifestyle for a few years you have to consider Saudi Arabia as it is the only one offering above average salaries and packages. Living on a compound is a must as is a decent end of service bonus. Why consider the others if they don't recompense the hardships???