Hi,
My husband and I are planning on going to the Bangkok job fair next January, and I'm trying to decide whether to sign up with ISS or Search. Does the order of the fairs make a difference? I mean, should we sign up with ISS because their fair is first? Or does it not make that much difference?
I'm just worried that I'll sign up with Search and then get to the job fair and find that all the jobs that match the both of us are gone.
Does the order of the job fairs matter much?
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Teachermom
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 am
- Location: Asia
Reply
Which fair will have the schools your interested in attending? Some schools go to only one, MANY of them go to both. SA is larger then ISS and SA has more schools so the SA BKK fair is bigger then the ISS fair. You cant really go wrong with SA but ISS may better fit your niche.
You actually have to get an invite to the BKK fair, the SA BKK fair is more competitive harder to get an invite to the the ISS fair.
The actual order assuming school recruiters go to both fairs is pretty insignificant, many recruiters wait until they at least get to the SA BKK fair and interview their advance invitation candidates.
You actually have to get an invite to the BKK fair, the SA BKK fair is more competitive harder to get an invite to the the ISS fair.
The actual order assuming school recruiters go to both fairs is pretty insignificant, many recruiters wait until they at least get to the SA BKK fair and interview their advance invitation candidates.
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Teachermom
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 am
- Location: Asia
Yeah, most of the schools that I'm interested in go to both fairs. Since we're a teaching couple, we need two positions, so I just worry that if we go to Search, the schools might have filled one of the positions the week before, at the ISS fair.
And I suppose it could work the other way, too--schools going to the ISS fair and wanting to hold out positions to see if they can get someone better the next week.
Anyone else have any experience either way with this?
And I suppose it could work the other way, too--schools going to the ISS fair and wanting to hold out positions to see if they can get someone better the next week.
Anyone else have any experience either way with this?
Comment
The positions over school sounds great, but falls apart if you wouldnt accept a position from the schools at the fair if offered one. So in some part yes the fair with the most positions increases your probability of getting interviews, but interviews alone dont win the race. If many or all of those schools are schools your not interested in, then basically youve gone to a fair to either practice your interviewing skills, or your just walking around.
SA associates and ISS consultants tend to promote all positions with the schools they represent as the same. An offer from one of them is not significantly different from any other offer.
SA associates and ISS consultants tend to promote all positions with the schools they represent as the same. An offer from one of them is not significantly different from any other offer.
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calciodirigore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm
- Location: Europe
I have noticed over the course of the last 3-4 recruitment seasons that schools tend to wait a bit longer to offer contracts.
So, you might attend ISS Bangkok but the schools aren't planning to offer until Search Bangkok or even Search London. Some schools might wait until all of the fairs are over.
Then there's the issue of tons of openings appearing after both of the Bangkok fairs have finished. Too many schools still allow teachers to renew contracts after the December holiday.
I would not attend the ISS fair. If you are not the perfect fit (and most people are just not) then wait until later in the recruitment season.
So, you might attend ISS Bangkok but the schools aren't planning to offer until Search Bangkok or even Search London. Some schools might wait until all of the fairs are over.
Then there's the issue of tons of openings appearing after both of the Bangkok fairs have finished. Too many schools still allow teachers to renew contracts after the December holiday.
I would not attend the ISS fair. If you are not the perfect fit (and most people are just not) then wait until later in the recruitment season.
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Teachermom
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 am
- Location: Asia
Thanks for your replies, everyone! We're overall quite happy at our current school, so we will only be looking at offers that are obviously a step up for us. If we don't get an offer we're thrilled with, we'll just stay put. So we will be kind of picky, but on the other hand, we're pretty open as far as locations go. We're open to going to most of the world.
Anyone willing to chime in on our chances of getting into a Tier 1 or great Tier 2 school? (We're not shooting for the really elite schools, since we don't think we have a chance.) Here's our stats:
Me:
8 years teaching High School English, including 2 years IB DP experience, 5 years AP experience.
4 years Curriculum Coordinator, on leadership team
IB DP training, level 2.
Masters in Educational Leadership currently in process
Mr. Teachermom:
2 years experience in ESL/art teacher position(taught elementary and high school art, including one digital art class)
Masters in Elem. Ed, Certified in Elementary and Art.
ESL and Remedial Coordinator, 2 years
Total 5 years living abroad as a family, plus I grew up an expat kid.
Two grade school kids.
We're really looking for a school with a big focus on inquiry based learning, and with a diverse student body so our kids aren't the only foreigners in their classes any more.
Any opinions on what caliber of schools we have a chance at?
Anyone willing to chime in on our chances of getting into a Tier 1 or great Tier 2 school? (We're not shooting for the really elite schools, since we don't think we have a chance.) Here's our stats:
Me:
8 years teaching High School English, including 2 years IB DP experience, 5 years AP experience.
4 years Curriculum Coordinator, on leadership team
IB DP training, level 2.
Masters in Educational Leadership currently in process
Mr. Teachermom:
2 years experience in ESL/art teacher position(taught elementary and high school art, including one digital art class)
Masters in Elem. Ed, Certified in Elementary and Art.
ESL and Remedial Coordinator, 2 years
Total 5 years living abroad as a family, plus I grew up an expat kid.
Two grade school kids.
We're really looking for a school with a big focus on inquiry based learning, and with a diverse student body so our kids aren't the only foreigners in their classes any more.
Any opinions on what caliber of schools we have a chance at?
Reply
@Teachermom
Brief summary, your awesome, elite schools would be interested in you, and youd be a top contender for tier 1 schools. Hubby, not so much, hes going to drag you down (you should consider getting a new husband). Lets look at your scores:
PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
Teachermom:
Experience = 4 pts
Curriculum = 1 pt
Logistical Hire = 1pt
Leadership Experience = .5 pt
IS Experience = .5 (I didnt know if youd lived or taught abroad, I assumed you did)
Total = 7, a very good score, considering its VERy difficult to top out on the scale.
Mr. Teachermom:
Experience = .5 pt
Advance Degree = 1 pt
Logistical Hire = 1 pt
Cross Certified = .5 pt
Leadership experience = .25 pt
IS Experience = .5
Total = 3.5
I gave your husband only half the credit for his experience since it was mixed art and ESL. ESL doesnt count except in very, very limited situations, and in this case your husband isnt certified in ESL.
Primary and Art are a difficult combination, because it doesnt add value. I cant put him in an elementary classroom all day and an art classroom, its either one or the other.
The ESL/Remedial Coordinator experience sounds vague, and ISs dont usually have remedial programs. Assuming your husband can discuss leadership and management from that experience I rated it equivalent to an HOD position.
As you can see hubby is half the teacher you are, and add to that he has no primary experience (i wouldnt put him in a PYP classroom) and Art has very low turnover. Lastly you have two kids which makes you expensive. A top tier school isnt going to be too concerned, but your one great english teacher/HOD for a tier 1 school or a curriculum coordinator in a tier 2 school, who has a spouse who we can do something with and 2 kids.
Brief summary, your awesome, elite schools would be interested in you, and youd be a top contender for tier 1 schools. Hubby, not so much, hes going to drag you down (you should consider getting a new husband). Lets look at your scores:
PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
Teachermom:
Experience = 4 pts
Curriculum = 1 pt
Logistical Hire = 1pt
Leadership Experience = .5 pt
IS Experience = .5 (I didnt know if youd lived or taught abroad, I assumed you did)
Total = 7, a very good score, considering its VERy difficult to top out on the scale.
Mr. Teachermom:
Experience = .5 pt
Advance Degree = 1 pt
Logistical Hire = 1 pt
Cross Certified = .5 pt
Leadership experience = .25 pt
IS Experience = .5
Total = 3.5
I gave your husband only half the credit for his experience since it was mixed art and ESL. ESL doesnt count except in very, very limited situations, and in this case your husband isnt certified in ESL.
Primary and Art are a difficult combination, because it doesnt add value. I cant put him in an elementary classroom all day and an art classroom, its either one or the other.
The ESL/Remedial Coordinator experience sounds vague, and ISs dont usually have remedial programs. Assuming your husband can discuss leadership and management from that experience I rated it equivalent to an HOD position.
As you can see hubby is half the teacher you are, and add to that he has no primary experience (i wouldnt put him in a PYP classroom) and Art has very low turnover. Lastly you have two kids which makes you expensive. A top tier school isnt going to be too concerned, but your one great english teacher/HOD for a tier 1 school or a curriculum coordinator in a tier 2 school, who has a spouse who we can do something with and 2 kids.
Hi Teachermom,
It's just my two cents, but I do speak from experience. Go with Search. If you can line up glowing recommendations, hit home runs in skype interviews, and have someone on the inside of a school pushing your application to the top of the pile, you might very well get hired before the job fairs. If this occurs, the order of fairs won't matter.
Over and over, it seems like I see search candidates get scooped up before the fairs (it's also happened to my partner and I). I think this is because interviewers can see your confidential recs, before they speak with you. It gives them a lot more confidence to make the big decision.
It looks like you have been teaching long enough to have some idea of the tier of school that would find your services useful. There are so many factors, it's nearly impossible to guess.
Good luck.
It's just my two cents, but I do speak from experience. Go with Search. If you can line up glowing recommendations, hit home runs in skype interviews, and have someone on the inside of a school pushing your application to the top of the pile, you might very well get hired before the job fairs. If this occurs, the order of fairs won't matter.
Over and over, it seems like I see search candidates get scooped up before the fairs (it's also happened to my partner and I). I think this is because interviewers can see your confidential recs, before they speak with you. It gives them a lot more confidence to make the big decision.
It looks like you have been teaching long enough to have some idea of the tier of school that would find your services useful. There are so many factors, it's nearly impossible to guess.
Good luck.
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Teachermom
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 am
- Location: Asia
Comment
@Teachermom
I normally recommend Search, but with your resume your ready and more suited for ISS. You really want to focus ont he elite and tier 1 market, and the BKK ISS fair is just before the BKK SA fair. More relaxed, higher caliber teachers, its like being a member of "the club".
I normally recommend Search, but with your resume your ready and more suited for ISS. You really want to focus ont he elite and tier 1 market, and the BKK ISS fair is just before the BKK SA fair. More relaxed, higher caliber teachers, its like being a member of "the club".
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Teachermom
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 am
- Location: Asia
Last time we recruited we did ISS, and we liked it, but I've been leaning towards Search because of the November admin fair.
I was thinking about attending the Search Bangkok admin fair to see if I could get a HOD job, then if that didn't pan out to do the January Search Bangkok fair.
Some colleagues have told me to do BOTH ISS and Search, but it seems like a lot of extra work without much clear benefit. Will I be missing out on tier one schools if I just do Search?
I was thinking about attending the Search Bangkok admin fair to see if I could get a HOD job, then if that didn't pan out to do the January Search Bangkok fair.
Some colleagues have told me to do BOTH ISS and Search, but it seems like a lot of extra work without much clear benefit. Will I be missing out on tier one schools if I just do Search?
Comment
@Teachermom
The SA admin fair in November is new, its only been around a year, its focused on executive leadership positions, HOS and principals mostly. Its designed so that executive and senior admin can be in place when teacher recruitment starts. With your resume youd be very competitive for coordinator and maybe an AP/Deputy position but not executive level yet. HOD is a junior admin position and would be typically filled at one of the general job fairs.
Admin recruiting at the regularly scheduled fairs is really the night before the first day, and thats where your going to really excel. Typically the night before is for the top choice advance invitation interviews and vacancies. Many new teachers are very frustrated when they get to the first day of the fair the morning of signup to find the updated list and their prime choice vacancies have been filled.
The rule is you go to the earliest fair your competitive for. People get hired at fairs, this removes vacancies from the job pool that are no longer available to later candidates. If an offer is made at ISS and accepted its not available for you later at SA. That said the ISS fair is small by SA comparisons, it really is a much less stressful and relaxed environment. Most recruiters will wait until at least interviewing their top pick on the first night at Search, then again if your their top pick securing the contract sooner, means they cant decide someone else should have been their top pick instead...
Well their are bennefits to joining both. The BKK job fairs are right next to one another, there are schools that attend only one and not the other. So you will see schools at ISS you wont see at SA, but you will see more at SA then you would at ISS.
If your ISS material, then really SA is a waste. SA has more schools but the difference is that those additional schools are lower tier schools that shouldnt interest you. Do you really want to get messages and invitations from 3rd tier ME schools you wouldnt give the time of day if you were standing under a clock tower? Why waste your time? Your going to be one of those candidates at SA who everyone hates because your going to have several VERY good contracts to choose from the night before everyone else has to do the casting call. Your biggest complaint is not getting to wear all the great outfits over several days to interview in. Your going to be planing the weekend in BKK as a mini vacation, while everyone else is crying that after coming all this way, and spending all this money and all this work their schools wont even give them an interview. Some of them are going to be down right shocked when the pre screeners in the schools line wont even give them the 30 seconds to talk to the actual recruiter because they dont have enough IB experience.
Go to ISS, get your dream job EARLY, celebrate your success with the rest of the "it" group and then enjoy the rest of the time until you catch your flight.
The SA admin fair in November is new, its only been around a year, its focused on executive leadership positions, HOS and principals mostly. Its designed so that executive and senior admin can be in place when teacher recruitment starts. With your resume youd be very competitive for coordinator and maybe an AP/Deputy position but not executive level yet. HOD is a junior admin position and would be typically filled at one of the general job fairs.
Admin recruiting at the regularly scheduled fairs is really the night before the first day, and thats where your going to really excel. Typically the night before is for the top choice advance invitation interviews and vacancies. Many new teachers are very frustrated when they get to the first day of the fair the morning of signup to find the updated list and their prime choice vacancies have been filled.
The rule is you go to the earliest fair your competitive for. People get hired at fairs, this removes vacancies from the job pool that are no longer available to later candidates. If an offer is made at ISS and accepted its not available for you later at SA. That said the ISS fair is small by SA comparisons, it really is a much less stressful and relaxed environment. Most recruiters will wait until at least interviewing their top pick on the first night at Search, then again if your their top pick securing the contract sooner, means they cant decide someone else should have been their top pick instead...
Well their are bennefits to joining both. The BKK job fairs are right next to one another, there are schools that attend only one and not the other. So you will see schools at ISS you wont see at SA, but you will see more at SA then you would at ISS.
If your ISS material, then really SA is a waste. SA has more schools but the difference is that those additional schools are lower tier schools that shouldnt interest you. Do you really want to get messages and invitations from 3rd tier ME schools you wouldnt give the time of day if you were standing under a clock tower? Why waste your time? Your going to be one of those candidates at SA who everyone hates because your going to have several VERY good contracts to choose from the night before everyone else has to do the casting call. Your biggest complaint is not getting to wear all the great outfits over several days to interview in. Your going to be planing the weekend in BKK as a mini vacation, while everyone else is crying that after coming all this way, and spending all this money and all this work their schools wont even give them an interview. Some of them are going to be down right shocked when the pre screeners in the schools line wont even give them the 30 seconds to talk to the actual recruiter because they dont have enough IB experience.
Go to ISS, get your dream job EARLY, celebrate your success with the rest of the "it" group and then enjoy the rest of the time until you catch your flight.
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Cheery Littlebottom
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 8:32 am
OK, PsyGuy! Read my palm! Give me my points! Can't resist it....
A level experience 4 years
IB experience, ESS 5 years (examiner) Biology 5 years (SL and HL)
MYP 5 years
IGCSE / GCSE 9 years
International experience 13 years (in good schools, honest!)
Married to fellow IB scientist, 2 kids. Younger than 50!
Maybe you should publish your scales!
A level experience 4 years
IB experience, ESS 5 years (examiner) Biology 5 years (SL and HL)
MYP 5 years
IGCSE / GCSE 9 years
International experience 13 years (in good schools, honest!)
Married to fellow IB scientist, 2 kids. Younger than 50!
Maybe you should publish your scales!
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BookshelfAmy
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:21 pm
@Cheery,
He did publish his scales:
PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
If I'm not mistaken, you can get a total of six points from #2-10, plus one point for every two years of experience up to 10 years (which would be 5 points). So, from what you've told us, you would get:
Experience: 5
Curriculum: 1
Logistics: 1
International exp: .5
Total -- 7.5
I don't know if you should get full credit for the spouse since you both teach in the same field...
Also, you should know that some people think PsyGuy's rating system is a little dubious. They suggest that getting to know someone's personality, strengths and weaknesses, and family situation -- and then deciding whether that person would fit in well with the existing team -- can't be reduced down to a simple 11-point scale. Still, it's a concrete measure of your competitiveness, and that can be helpful.
He did publish his scales:
PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
If I'm not mistaken, you can get a total of six points from #2-10, plus one point for every two years of experience up to 10 years (which would be 5 points). So, from what you've told us, you would get:
Experience: 5
Curriculum: 1
Logistics: 1
International exp: .5
Total -- 7.5
I don't know if you should get full credit for the spouse since you both teach in the same field...
Also, you should know that some people think PsyGuy's rating system is a little dubious. They suggest that getting to know someone's personality, strengths and weaknesses, and family situation -- and then deciding whether that person would fit in well with the existing team -- can't be reduced down to a simple 11-point scale. Still, it's a concrete measure of your competitiveness, and that can be helpful.