I'm in my 10th year internationally, and I'm a lifer now. The life has its ups and some horrible downs, but overall I've loved it and wouldn't change it. Even the downs are all part of the learning experience, and they certainly make you stronger.
There was a tough time half way through my second international school (after about 4 years overseas) when I thought, "Shouldn't I be planning on going "home" now? But that was mostly down to peer pressure from seeing friends buying houses at home. I know a lot of people do get pressure to return to "real life". The thing for me was, when I was looking at leaving my second school, I felt down about the idea of getting rid of a load of stuff again and moving on with just a few bags. I started stressing about whether or not I should be setting up properly at home. It was a horrible head vs heart time, but I trusted my heart and stayed overseas. I'm delighted with the decision.
I love living in different countries. The learning just never stops. Even when it's a bad experience, you still come out of it thinking, "I learned something there". The travel experiences are amazing and are limited only by how much you limit yourself. So many people talk about going overseas, and very few of the people that talk about it really do go and do it. But once you've done it once, you realise how easy and enjoyable it is.
How long will you teach abroad?
I like the idea of living with just a few material possessions. After two years of living in Shanghai, I've accumulated so much junk - clothes I hardly ever wear, books I will likely never read again, aging electronics I would love to replace.
I actually look forward to giving away/throwing away all the useless things I don't really need now that I'm moving again - its a great incentive to keep my life simple and fresh :)
I actually look forward to giving away/throwing away all the useless things I don't really need now that I'm moving again - its a great incentive to keep my life simple and fresh :)
@panta: I’ll try to explain a little better what I meant. As a TCK (Third Culture Kid) or Global Nomad my son will be perfectly comfortable as a international citizen and function quite well in a global society. While he will get along well amongst other TCKs, he will never fully belong in his host culture and will most likely feel awkward in the US, his country of citizenship. For example, no matter how good his Chinese is he will never be accepted as Chinese because he is blonde haired and blue eyed. He may also struggle to fit in with his American peers because he can’t relate to their interests. Of course, he could feel perfectly comfortable in both although that isn't likely.
That is what I was referring to. This is really a pretty common phenomenon amongst expat children and one that I hope to be very aware of so that I can hope to maximize the benefits of my son’s upbringing abroad and minimize the problems. There are a lot of books out there that discuss it.
I think it boils down to a sense of what home is. I know where my base is and where my roots lie, but my son may miss out on this. I sometimes think that purchasing a home somewhere near family and going back to the same place each summer may give him a sense of his roots. I guess we’ll see. If someone asks me where I am from, it is a simple answer. However, if I ask one of my students where they are from, it is often a crazy round about story about what their nationality is, where they were born, where they have lived and where their parents are from and so on. I’d like my son to have simpler answer. Although, if someone asks him where he is from and he says “Earthâ€
That is what I was referring to. This is really a pretty common phenomenon amongst expat children and one that I hope to be very aware of so that I can hope to maximize the benefits of my son’s upbringing abroad and minimize the problems. There are a lot of books out there that discuss it.
I think it boils down to a sense of what home is. I know where my base is and where my roots lie, but my son may miss out on this. I sometimes think that purchasing a home somewhere near family and going back to the same place each summer may give him a sense of his roots. I guess we’ll see. If someone asks me where I am from, it is a simple answer. However, if I ask one of my students where they are from, it is often a crazy round about story about what their nationality is, where they were born, where they have lived and where their parents are from and so on. I’d like my son to have simpler answer. Although, if someone asks him where he is from and he says “Earthâ€
I understand Danda completely and agree with many of the reasons why he/she chooses to teach overseas. I have been overseas for 15 years, but I sometimes share the same concerns that Danda has about raising a child overseas. My wife, also a teacher, is from a different country than me, so that makes things even more complex for where 'home' is. Danda, please recommend these books you mention. I know the TCK one that most people have read. If there are others, please mention them. Thanks.
Overall, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives for our child; however, I am also tired of the driver/nanny/housekeeper lifestyle sometimes. Fortunately, we do not need a full-time person now. I agree with what Inman has also stated in his/her last paragraph. Each day is a learning experience and I am grateful for my experiences. I am truly spoiled by the kids I teach and the resources I have at my disposal. Everytime I think about returning home, I talk with friends who teach there and reality hits. It would be tough to return, although I play with the idea from time to time. The lack of a pension is the only major drawback to international teaching.
Overall, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives for our child; however, I am also tired of the driver/nanny/housekeeper lifestyle sometimes. Fortunately, we do not need a full-time person now. I agree with what Inman has also stated in his/her last paragraph. Each day is a learning experience and I am grateful for my experiences. I am truly spoiled by the kids I teach and the resources I have at my disposal. Everytime I think about returning home, I talk with friends who teach there and reality hits. It would be tough to return, although I play with the idea from time to time. The lack of a pension is the only major drawback to international teaching.
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
[quote="rumour5182"]
Thanks for the response, Teachermom. For us personally, it's not about the culture shock -- we only came to this decision in the past month. When we first arrived -- and for the first six or eight months -- we were set on staying abroad for decades.[/quote]
Contrary to common belief, real culture shock is not something that occurs soon after you arrive in a country. The real "dip" of culture shock happens long after, and this could be months or even years.
But I get what you are saying about the expat nanny/maid/driver lifestyle. I like getting some services (once a week housekeeper is the greatest thing ever) but having a bunch of servants would just weird me out.
Thanks for the response, Teachermom. For us personally, it's not about the culture shock -- we only came to this decision in the past month. When we first arrived -- and for the first six or eight months -- we were set on staying abroad for decades.[/quote]
Contrary to common belief, real culture shock is not something that occurs soon after you arrive in a country. The real "dip" of culture shock happens long after, and this could be months or even years.
But I get what you are saying about the expat nanny/maid/driver lifestyle. I like getting some services (once a week housekeeper is the greatest thing ever) but having a bunch of servants would just weird me out.
I left the US in 1970 thinking I would teach in a little international school in Saigon in 1970 and then return home. I returned home, but only to visit. I've been mostly overseas for 42 years as a teacher, but every few years I'd return to the States to teach in a public school for a year to re-acquaint myself with the latest teaching methodologies. I stopped doing that in the mid-1980's. Now it's been totally overseas.
I'm still teaching full time at 66 in Singapore, but it's because I choose to. It's good when your're at retirement age to choose to work. I have no idea what I'm doing the next school year. I may or may not teach. I live pretty permanently in Singapore (and Malaysia), so it's home. However, I have the question now of whether I should be more permanently in the States. I enrolled more than a year ago in Medicare, and you can't use that overseas.
Really interesting to read your various perspectives on how long to live overseas.
Rob
I'm still teaching full time at 66 in Singapore, but it's because I choose to. It's good when your're at retirement age to choose to work. I have no idea what I'm doing the next school year. I may or may not teach. I live pretty permanently in Singapore (and Malaysia), so it's home. However, I have the question now of whether I should be more permanently in the States. I enrolled more than a year ago in Medicare, and you can't use that overseas.
Really interesting to read your various perspectives on how long to live overseas.
Rob
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rumour5182
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:08 pm
- Location: U.S.
[quote="chilagringa"] But I get what you are saying about the expat nanny/maid/driver lifestyle. I like getting some services (once a week housekeeper is the greatest thing ever) but having a bunch of servants would just weird me out. [/quote]
We don't actually have any of those services -- with a non-teaching spouse, there's no reason to have a maid (although we were both working in the U.S., much longer hours in fact, and never had one, so why I would need one here if we were both working is beyond my comprehension), and we don't have children yet so there's no need for a nanny. However, all of my colleagues have at least a nanny or a maid, sometimes both, and I find it hard to relate to the sense of entitlement that comes from people who talk about how their maid, who makes 5USD an hour, bought spaghetti noodles instead of fettucine noodles and this somehow ruined their evening. It's a bit of a shock when someone you enjoy working with and have socialized with as well says something like that, and I just don't think I'll get used to it.
As for helicopter parents, maybe some of you have worked in schools where the parent population isn't there all the time, but my students are helicopter parented far more than any I taught in the U.S. (including some very wealthy areas with stay-at-home moms). I don't want my kids attending school in that environment, nor do I want them feeling inadequate because their classmates are travelling to Singapore for a birthday . or just got their third iPad, and they cannot (a problem several of my teacher friends are having with their middle/high school kids).
I completely understand and respect the reasons so many of you have for wanting to make this a lifetime choice -- in fact, in some ways I'm envious that you can so fully embrace teaching overseas. But in the end, doing this for a lifetime is just not for us, and we're OK with that. In some ways I feel that it's helping us enjoy our time even more while we're here -- we know there is a definitive end-date in mind, so we are carefully planning out all of our holidays to make sure we get to all the countries we'd like to see while we're over here, because we don't know when we'll be back.
We don't actually have any of those services -- with a non-teaching spouse, there's no reason to have a maid (although we were both working in the U.S., much longer hours in fact, and never had one, so why I would need one here if we were both working is beyond my comprehension), and we don't have children yet so there's no need for a nanny. However, all of my colleagues have at least a nanny or a maid, sometimes both, and I find it hard to relate to the sense of entitlement that comes from people who talk about how their maid, who makes 5USD an hour, bought spaghetti noodles instead of fettucine noodles and this somehow ruined their evening. It's a bit of a shock when someone you enjoy working with and have socialized with as well says something like that, and I just don't think I'll get used to it.
As for helicopter parents, maybe some of you have worked in schools where the parent population isn't there all the time, but my students are helicopter parented far more than any I taught in the U.S. (including some very wealthy areas with stay-at-home moms). I don't want my kids attending school in that environment, nor do I want them feeling inadequate because their classmates are travelling to Singapore for a birthday . or just got their third iPad, and they cannot (a problem several of my teacher friends are having with their middle/high school kids).
I completely understand and respect the reasons so many of you have for wanting to make this a lifetime choice -- in fact, in some ways I'm envious that you can so fully embrace teaching overseas. But in the end, doing this for a lifetime is just not for us, and we're OK with that. In some ways I feel that it's helping us enjoy our time even more while we're here -- we know there is a definitive end-date in mind, so we are carefully planning out all of our holidays to make sure we get to all the countries we'd like to see while we're over here, because we don't know when we'll be back.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
We headed out in the 90's, me teaching, Mrs. Shadowjack non-teaching. When the contract ended, we looked at converting Mrs. S to a teaching certification and staying overseas, but in the end went back to our home country, although to a part we had never lived in before. Our kids were both school age, but still relatively young.
But the overseas bug keeps biting. I suspect that many of you know what I mean. We turned down a chance to move to Singapore (6 days a week work for Mrs. S and apartment living in a small apartment). But the bug just kept biting. One morning Mrs. S says to me, "What do you think about working in XX?" and I said, "Let's explore it." A week later she had a job and a week after that I had a job. Off we went; however, the cost of living was horrible (but the history and travel made up for it), 1 child hated it, the other loved it, and we were bleeding money, so back to our jobs we went (wisely we had taken leaves of absence).
The very next year Mrs. S gets a phone call and after negotiations, away we go again. For 1 year. It has now been 8 for her, 7 for me, and we have no intention of returning home. I love my country, both our kids returned there and are happy there; however, once you've been bitten, it's hard to go back. And as parents pass on, that lure to return is less.
In regards to nannies, drivers, maids, ordinarily we have never had them, keeping to our Canadian lifestyle. The only time we did was the two years I was doing my masters, and it was a lovely lady coming in twice a week. After that finished, back to doing it ourselves.
You don't have to buy into the nanny/maid/driver/gardener lifestyle. You can choose to - and in some locations you might want to (my friend in Pakistan realized that he would never get any peace until he hired servants, because it would be the support of a whole family network, and he would be bugged until he hired someone).
Just my two cents.
But the overseas bug keeps biting. I suspect that many of you know what I mean. We turned down a chance to move to Singapore (6 days a week work for Mrs. S and apartment living in a small apartment). But the bug just kept biting. One morning Mrs. S says to me, "What do you think about working in XX?" and I said, "Let's explore it." A week later she had a job and a week after that I had a job. Off we went; however, the cost of living was horrible (but the history and travel made up for it), 1 child hated it, the other loved it, and we were bleeding money, so back to our jobs we went (wisely we had taken leaves of absence).
The very next year Mrs. S gets a phone call and after negotiations, away we go again. For 1 year. It has now been 8 for her, 7 for me, and we have no intention of returning home. I love my country, both our kids returned there and are happy there; however, once you've been bitten, it's hard to go back. And as parents pass on, that lure to return is less.
In regards to nannies, drivers, maids, ordinarily we have never had them, keeping to our Canadian lifestyle. The only time we did was the two years I was doing my masters, and it was a lovely lady coming in twice a week. After that finished, back to doing it ourselves.
You don't have to buy into the nanny/maid/driver/gardener lifestyle. You can choose to - and in some locations you might want to (my friend in Pakistan realized that he would never get any peace until he hired servants, because it would be the support of a whole family network, and he would be bugged until he hired someone).
Just my two cents.
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grdwdgrrrl
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:26 pm
"6) I have more time to spend with my son. I know that some people hire nannies and cleaners so they don’t have to spend time with their children. We hire a lady to clean our house, do laundry and iron so that we don’t have to spend our time doing it. We use that extra time to take our son riding, running, swimming, hiking, etc… It does annoy me when people hardly spend any time with their children because their nanny is always there. I guess it is their loss when their nanny has a better relationship with their kid than they do. "
I love the maid privileges for the above reason alone. After many years of this in China, we moved to Malaysia where a) I don't have a job and b) can't justify having a maid when I'm home.
However, I've realized that having a helper saves me time and sanity. And that the time I used to spend with my three kids I no longer have because now I'm still cleaning and cooking and ironing etc. even after they are home after school. It sucks.
My friends with kids at home (in the states) are strung out, exhausted and depressed. It's overwhelming to work and do all the household stuff, even if your kids help.
So, no thanks. Can't wait to get help!
I love the maid privileges for the above reason alone. After many years of this in China, we moved to Malaysia where a) I don't have a job and b) can't justify having a maid when I'm home.
However, I've realized that having a helper saves me time and sanity. And that the time I used to spend with my three kids I no longer have because now I'm still cleaning and cooking and ironing etc. even after they are home after school. It sucks.
My friends with kids at home (in the states) are strung out, exhausted and depressed. It's overwhelming to work and do all the household stuff, even if your kids help.
So, no thanks. Can't wait to get help!
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grdwdgrrrl
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:26 pm
[quote="Danda"]@panta: I’ll try to explain a little better what I meant. As a TCK (Third Culture Kid) or Global Nomad my son will be perfectly comfortable as a international citizen and function quite well in a global society. While he will get along well amongst other TCKs, he will never fully belong in his host culture and will most likely feel awkward in the US, his country of citizenship. For example, no matter how good his Chinese is he will never be accepted as Chinese because he is blonde haired and blue eyed. He may also struggle to fit in with his American peers because he can’t relate to their interests. Of course, he could feel perfectly comfortable in both although that isn't likely.
That is what I was referring to. This is really a pretty common phenomenon amongst expat children and one that I hope to be very aware of so that I can hope to maximize the benefits of my son’s upbringing abroad and minimize the problems. There are a lot of books out there that discuss
I think it boils down to a sense of what home is. I know where my base is and where my roots lie, but my son may miss out on this. I sometimes think that purchasing a home somewhere near family and going back to the same place each summer may give him a sense of his roots. I guess we’ll see. If someone asks me where I am from, it is a simple answer. However, if I ask one of my students where they are from, it is often a crazy round about story about what their nationality is, where they were born, where they have lived and where their parents are from and so on. I’d like my son to have simpler answer. Although, if someone asks him where he is from and he says “Earthâ€
That is what I was referring to. This is really a pretty common phenomenon amongst expat children and one that I hope to be very aware of so that I can hope to maximize the benefits of my son’s upbringing abroad and minimize the problems. There are a lot of books out there that discuss
I think it boils down to a sense of what home is. I know where my base is and where my roots lie, but my son may miss out on this. I sometimes think that purchasing a home somewhere near family and going back to the same place each summer may give him a sense of his roots. I guess we’ll see. If someone asks me where I am from, it is a simple answer. However, if I ask one of my students where they are from, it is often a crazy round about story about what their nationality is, where they were born, where they have lived and where their parents are from and so on. I’d like my son to have simpler answer. Although, if someone asks him where he is from and he says “Earthâ€
My wife and I spent a year in Korea (we met there actually) and then we returned back to Canada while I completed my B.ED. We initially decided to go overseas because the job situation in Ontario is horrendous. We figured we would spend four years overseas, travel, and pay off our debts. We are just about to finish up our first contract and will be heading to SEAsia shortly for our new one, and we can no longer imagine moving back to Canada. We love being overseas, and the opportunities for us are much brighter than anything in Canada.
We are planning to start a family soon, and we both feel that doing so overseas is a much better option than back home. The biggest problem is not having our immediate families and friends in close proximity, but they will visit and so will we. We are both very excited for what the future holds!
We are planning to start a family soon, and we both feel that doing so overseas is a much better option than back home. The biggest problem is not having our immediate families and friends in close proximity, but they will visit and so will we. We are both very excited for what the future holds!
I live in the states right now. I start my first overseas job in August and plan to finish out my career teaching overseas. I hope I will love it as much as I think I will.
Right now, I hire a wonderful woman to clean my house twice a month here in the states. The money contributes to her income and support of her child as a single mom by cleaning homes. She aspires to become a pharmacist and is taking classes towards that goal. She makes $15/hr which is way above minimum wage. If I could afford to have her come more often, I would.
There are and always will be those that make more money and those that make less money. I see nothing wrong in hiring a person to help with domestic tasks. It frees me up to do things I love rather than chores I dislike doing. I believe that I should pay them a living wage, treat them with respect, appreciate what their work allows me to do instead. I have no issues with this and am glad I will to be able to hire someone to help me in SE Asia.
I did grow up privileged with a full time housekeeper and a full time nanny (we never ever called her a nanny just a babysitter). I dearly loved both of them, they gave to the kids in my family in ways that my parents did or could not. I do not feel that it detracted, I certainly spent time with parents as well. I guess we just though of it as one more person to love us and for us to turn to.
Right now, I hire a wonderful woman to clean my house twice a month here in the states. The money contributes to her income and support of her child as a single mom by cleaning homes. She aspires to become a pharmacist and is taking classes towards that goal. She makes $15/hr which is way above minimum wage. If I could afford to have her come more often, I would.
There are and always will be those that make more money and those that make less money. I see nothing wrong in hiring a person to help with domestic tasks. It frees me up to do things I love rather than chores I dislike doing. I believe that I should pay them a living wage, treat them with respect, appreciate what their work allows me to do instead. I have no issues with this and am glad I will to be able to hire someone to help me in SE Asia.
I did grow up privileged with a full time housekeeper and a full time nanny (we never ever called her a nanny just a babysitter). I dearly loved both of them, they gave to the kids in my family in ways that my parents did or could not. I do not feel that it detracted, I certainly spent time with parents as well. I guess we just though of it as one more person to love us and for us to turn to.
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happygolucky
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 12:39 pm
Ive been overseas 8 Years now. Im moving this year to a place I hope to stay 5 years plus. My wife is from one of the countries Ive been working in and so 'home' is no longer 'home' given my family is small and hers very large. As a result, we intend to head back to her country once I hit 45 (9 years from now) and by that time we'll have bought a house outright in cash, saved six figures and I will then work FT at an international school or Uni (as I will have my doctorate by then) there for five years while we weekend in our soon to be bought house and then at 50 go to PT while enjoying some free time, to then go into consulting for the last 10 years.
Thats 'the plan' - the house is getting bought in the summer and rented out. We will have bought it outright, no mortgage.
Thats 'the plan' - the house is getting bought in the summer and rented out. We will have bought it outright, no mortgage.