I was hoping to get a little perspective and advice. I have followed the forum mostly from afar, but now have a question that seems pertinent to ask.
First a little background:
Me: 12 years experience in teaching history and related social studies (sadly no economics, though). I have a master's in humanities and an advanced certificate in educational policy and administration. I am dually licensed in both social studies and administration. I have taught both DP and MYP. Currently, I am an IB/AP coordinator along with a host of other "junior" admin duties.
Mrs UM2001: 12 years of math experience. Master's in educational psychology. Math SL and MYP experience. Currently a teacher .80 and an instructional coach to non-tenured teachers.
Both of us have been involved in mentoring new teachers in a teaching residency, coached various sports and held leadership committee appointments at various times. The question revolves around our desire to go abroad in the next 2-3 years.
I have an opportunity to move into an assistant principal position next year at the large public high school where we currently work. Our school has 1750 students and a thriving MYP/DP program, alongside a small program of 200 or so AP exams every year. In reading this forum, it seems that a frequent point of emphasis is that to get a "break" in administration at an IS one may have to move to a less than desirable location/school. Years ago, this would not have been a problem, but we will bringing along two young kids and do not want them in truly awful schools, hoping that things will turn around.
My questions then are: Is it realistic to think that with our experiences (including a future AP assignment stateside) we could land in a reasonable lower tier 1, upper tier 2 school? We are very flexible in terms of location, size of school, etc. Would there be any circumstances where staying IB Coordinator would have benefits? Finally, do admin with only US experience get hired onto the international circuit and will my wife's experience in math/teacher leader be a bonus? Thank you in advance for any advice.
Admin Question
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overseasvet2
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:50 pm
Some schools really value Stateside experience so it might be a good move to go to the VP position. If nothing else, it will make you appreciate the international schools when you get there!
You are right to think you'd most likely be hired at a very small school unless you want to be an IB coordinator. If you are not in a hurry, that would also be a possible route. Get to a big international school and then wait for the chance to move up to admin. If you stay Stateside, I'd start working on a doctorate. Many of my admin in the big schools have had it.
You are right to think you'd most likely be hired at a very small school unless you want to be an IB coordinator. If you are not in a hurry, that would also be a possible route. Get to a big international school and then wait for the chance to move up to admin. If you stay Stateside, I'd start working on a doctorate. Many of my admin in the big schools have had it.
A few points worth discussion...
Getting one's first admin position is the tricky bit. If you take the VP post for next year, and put in at least 2 years with it, you'll have the admin experience necessary to get another admin post, this time in an international school. It doesn't really matter where you've have an admin post, just that you've had one and been successful.
Getting your first international post, you can expect to aim a little lower than the top tiers, whether you're admin or a teacher. If you've got good experience in a good US school, with good references, apply to tier 1 and 2 schools. Expect to get a tier 2 post, but if you're lucky you'll land a tier 1. It happens, you just can't bank on it. You may also consider what level of admin you're shooting for. If you'll be trying to move up the ladder by securing a principal's post, you'll almost certainly have to stick to tier 2 schools, or even tier 3. If you want to make a lateral move and stay a VP, you can look for tier 1 or 2.
A doctorate is a debatable asset. Many of the top schools pretty much expect that their directors will have doctorates. For principals and lower, it's almost always optional. Given that it's a huge undertaking, consider where you ultimately want to end up. Most of the principals I know do not have doctorates. They almost all have masters, and many have two masters, or a masters plus additional credentials.
Good DP Coordinators are in demand. You can always leverage that experience to get a job overseas. It could be a ticket to a tier 1 school, but only if you went as a DP Coordinator. If you really want to get into admin, take the VP post and work up. Later, you might find a school that wants a combo DP Coordinator and Principal. Or you can find a school that doesn't know they want this, and you can convince them what a great idea it would be.
Getting one's first admin position is the tricky bit. If you take the VP post for next year, and put in at least 2 years with it, you'll have the admin experience necessary to get another admin post, this time in an international school. It doesn't really matter where you've have an admin post, just that you've had one and been successful.
Getting your first international post, you can expect to aim a little lower than the top tiers, whether you're admin or a teacher. If you've got good experience in a good US school, with good references, apply to tier 1 and 2 schools. Expect to get a tier 2 post, but if you're lucky you'll land a tier 1. It happens, you just can't bank on it. You may also consider what level of admin you're shooting for. If you'll be trying to move up the ladder by securing a principal's post, you'll almost certainly have to stick to tier 2 schools, or even tier 3. If you want to make a lateral move and stay a VP, you can look for tier 1 or 2.
A doctorate is a debatable asset. Many of the top schools pretty much expect that their directors will have doctorates. For principals and lower, it's almost always optional. Given that it's a huge undertaking, consider where you ultimately want to end up. Most of the principals I know do not have doctorates. They almost all have masters, and many have two masters, or a masters plus additional credentials.
Good DP Coordinators are in demand. You can always leverage that experience to get a job overseas. It could be a ticket to a tier 1 school, but only if you went as a DP Coordinator. If you really want to get into admin, take the VP post and work up. Later, you might find a school that wants a combo DP Coordinator and Principal. Or you can find a school that doesn't know they want this, and you can convince them what a great idea it would be.
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Dredge
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:25 pm
- Location: Three continents, mentally and physically
One of the most important things I see missing from your resume is international experience in any capacity. While schools will take a chance on a new teacher with no international experience, I would think a director would be less likely to do this with a principal or vice principal. The ability to handle (sometimes survive) the day-to-day grind of living internationally can be more challenging than the job. When you're married with kids and have no international experience, there are many factors that might cause you to bail on the post after one-year, or less, versus a single person with no international experience.
I could be wrong, but I think a proven track-record of teaching internationally is more attractive to some schools than a proven administrative track record in your home country. The differences are stark, especially coming from a public school system.
I could be wrong, but I think a proven track-record of teaching internationally is more attractive to some schools than a proven administrative track record in your home country. The differences are stark, especially coming from a public school system.
Reply
I disagree with Dredge that IS experience is more important the admin experience. Though his pint is well taken, a lack of international experience even at an overseas "american" school is going to be an issue.
The rule is that generally you can move up one level in the following factors: Position (title), tier (school) or region.
Your a solid junior admin and your certified with ample experience. Moving up to a senior admin post such as AP right now is likely if you were willing to go to a lower tier school. However having an AP offer on the table is a lot less work all you have to do is say yes. After doing that for 2-3 years (maybe even 1) you would be a respectable candidate for a lower tier principal position or a 1st tier AP position. The issue is do you want to do that for 3 years?
On the other path you could apply for a junior admin (Coordinator) position at a tier 1 school now, and getting international experience would be well placed to moving into senior admin position at good school, if not just moving up to a senior admin position from the junior admin position. Large ISs have lots of APs.
The rule is that generally you can move up one level in the following factors: Position (title), tier (school) or region.
Your a solid junior admin and your certified with ample experience. Moving up to a senior admin post such as AP right now is likely if you were willing to go to a lower tier school. However having an AP offer on the table is a lot less work all you have to do is say yes. After doing that for 2-3 years (maybe even 1) you would be a respectable candidate for a lower tier principal position or a 1st tier AP position. The issue is do you want to do that for 3 years?
On the other path you could apply for a junior admin (Coordinator) position at a tier 1 school now, and getting international experience would be well placed to moving into senior admin position at good school, if not just moving up to a senior admin position from the junior admin position. Large ISs have lots of APs.