The International Schools Review Forum

Hi all,

As I've written earlier, I'm considering various teacher qualification programs at the moment. Besides PGCE (England) I came across the PGDE from Scotland. A big advantage is that the programe is much cheaper (1820 GBP compared to 9000 for PGCE (this is for UK/EU students)). Also the schools of education at Aberdeen and Glasgow are ranked very high in the UK. So my question: How well is the scottish PGDE recognized compared to a PGCE from England? Is it sufficient to get into good international schools?

Many thanks in advance.

The PGDE is accorded the same recognition as the PGCE. It is much the same course in terms of its length and rigour.

The key difference is that a PGDE does not follow the national curriculum for England, so you won't be able to get a job in an English state school.

As a side note, I wonder where you are finding your information about the best education programmes in the UK. The Guardian newspaper publishes a list of the 'best' courses at UK universties, but bear in mind that this is based on student surveys about 'course satisfaction' 'student-teacher ratio' and so on. It does not reflect the quality of the teaching and research.

Both are the same, other than the PGDE is a diploma and the PGCE is a certificate.

The PGDE is widely recognised around the world and the Scottish education system is one of the best in the world.

I know lots of Scottish teachers in top International Schools, so that is not a problem, especially in British International Schools. The new curriculum in Scotland - 'A curriculum for Excellence', is basically IB for state schools and has a similar learner profile.

Forget what you read in the news regarding problems in the English system regarding GCSE's and 'a race to the bottom' as a result of the number of competing exam boards, as this is curriculum based. Both England and Scotland produce some of the best teachers in the world. Whether you choose a PGCE or PGDE, you will have a big advantage - good luck!

Thanks to both of you! Very helpful.

@Mick
I've been looking at these two rankings:

1) http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.c ... =Education

2) http://www.topuniversities.com/universi ... d-training

[quote="Mick Travis"]The PGDE is accorded the same recognition as the PGCE. It is much the same course in terms of its length and rigour.

The key difference is that a PGDE does not follow the national curriculum for England, so you won't be able to get a job in an English state school.

As a side note, I wonder where you are finding your information about the best education programmes in the UK. The Guardian newspaper publishes a list of the 'best' courses at UK universties, but bear in mind that this is based on student surveys about 'course satisfaction' 'student-teacher ratio' and so on. It does not reflect the quality of the teaching and research.[/quote]

Ok I trained on a PGCE in England but am from Scotland. If you get a PGDE once you have Full Registration, you are recognised for work almost anywhere (including England). I did my probation in Scotland after finishing the English PGCE and it has not been an issue anywhere.

@Happygolucky

My point was not that PGCE's prevented you from working in Scotland - I know a few such teachers like yourself - but that PGDE's were not considered appropriate by schools which followed the ENC, at least not in my experience. However, I am happy for anyone holding a PGDE and working in an English state school to disprove this assertion, though I know of none who do.

[quote="Mick Travis"]@Happygolucky

My point was not that PGCE's prevented you from working in Scotland - I know a few such teachers like yourself - but that PGDE's were not considered appropriate by schools which followed the ENC, at least not in my experience. However, I am happy for anyone holding a PGDE and working in an English state school to disprove this assertion, though I know of none who do.[/quote]

I have two friends from Edinburgh who work in Southampton having done a PGDE. In England, as in Scotland, the key thing is that you have GTC registration. GTC Scotland full registration is accepted in England as equivalent of QTS.

I dont have QTS as I completed NQT (probation) in Scotland and didnt find any issues having the GTCS recognised in England.

Id also point out that in some subjects, like Computing, schools in England will bite teachers hands off to relocate now the Gove had changed ICT to Computer Science. If anything, the fact you need a degree in your teaching subject to do a PGDE is more employable than in England where you dont.

In ISs a PGDE is considered a working qualification.

The PGDE with full registration is accepted in England for employment in registered schools, and grants QTS.

Teachers from New Zealand, Canada, Australia and the USA can apply for full QTS status in England without having to do induction or any other requirements.

Teachers who complete their teacher training in Australia, New Zealand and the Republic of Ireland all qualify with a PGDE.

I have a friend from Canada, who did the PGDE in Scotland and now teaches in England!

Teachers from Australia, New Zealend, Canada, or the USA dont need a PGDE or PGCE to qualify for QTS.

[quote="PsyGuy"]Teachers from Australia, New Zealend, Canada, or the USA dont need a PGDE or PGCE to qualify for QTS.[/quote]

I never said they did, matey!

I (Canadian B.Ed.) applied for and was granted English QTS. We had no previous fulltime experience and it was completely free of charge. We just filled out a form and had our teacher's college in Canada send a letter.