Hello All,
I just have a general interest, not attacking at all, but I read these forums every day and every day I read something about the despicable state of the environment in China. Whether it's the air pollution affecting breathing, or the water affecting eating, or the over crowdedness affecting everything, I am curious, what benefits outweigh these enormous disadvantages? I am not talking about being a tourist there, but the choice to live a large portion of your life there with potentially long term health risks, both mentally and physically.
I am only bringing this up because I rarely read any good things about living in China. By good things, I don't mean that it's close to other parts of Asia, or the school has a nice package.
So my true question is, what are the good things about day-to-day life living in these gigantic metropolises in the most populated country in the world? I am truly curious.
China... why?
-
higgsboson
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:13 am
@Dredge
I can also add the new hassle of getting a work permit, which used to be so easy.
The reasons for me are, in order of importance:
1. Some of the most excellent students in the world who not only tolerate but seem to appreciate a teacher centered approach. They love to hear lectures and I love to give lectures.
2. The money. I'm going to a job that pays $50,000 after taxes plus I get free housing and completion bonus. For me, that's a good salary.
3. The travel opportunities. My best trips have been by train starting in China and covering multi countries. I already have my CNY trip of a lifetime planned.
4. The women and I'll say no more on that.
All in all, I love working in China but it does wear on you after a couple of years.
I can also add the new hassle of getting a work permit, which used to be so easy.
The reasons for me are, in order of importance:
1. Some of the most excellent students in the world who not only tolerate but seem to appreciate a teacher centered approach. They love to hear lectures and I love to give lectures.
2. The money. I'm going to a job that pays $50,000 after taxes plus I get free housing and completion bonus. For me, that's a good salary.
3. The travel opportunities. My best trips have been by train starting in China and covering multi countries. I already have my CNY trip of a lifetime planned.
4. The women and I'll say no more on that.
All in all, I love working in China but it does wear on you after a couple of years.
-
eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Dredge,
I'm sure everyone has a different reason for going to China, but I'd lay out the reasons I see commonly. I would also say that even people who enjoy living in China, can have a love/hate relationship with the place. Some days I was thrilled to be there, and other days I was ready to punch in the face the next person who was trying to push their way onto an elevator as everyone was exiting it on the ground floor.
First, there are a heck of a lot of jobs in China these days. The combination of foreign companies setting up shop and having employees based out of China, and Chinese people having the money to pay for Western curriculum at private and public Chinese-run schools has meant there are lots of schools looking for foreign teachers. Within that is a huge range of quality obviously, and I would say in general, the foreign run schools are better places to work though there are plenty of exceptions. It's also a very big country, and by living in different areas of the country you can experience a very different lifestyle.
Secondly, for all the problems the country has as they develop, it is a fascinating place to be. I think there are few examples in history of countries where life is changing so rapidly. Peter Hessler, probably the best foreign writer about life in China, has some very insightful things to say about it. I lived in Shanghai for 3 years about 10 years ago, and I was literally seeing the place change before my eyes. I headed back for brief trips after a couple years, and the places I knew had radically changed. I'm going back next year, and I don't expect it to be the same country. If you're into novelty, China is a great place to be.
Third, for as awful as Chinese people can be in public and in their interactions with strangers, I have had wonderful friendships with Chinese people who I have gotten to know well. Chinese people can be extremely gracious, and they respond very well when you show an interest in their country and their culture. They are the most encouraging of people as you butcher their language, "Oh, your Chinese is very good." Compare this with Japan, where I've heard from friends who have lived there that the general attitude of Japanese is, "if you can't speak our language correctly, then don't speak it at all." Again, these relationships take a bit of effort because foreigners' lifestyle and Chinese people's lifestyle can be radically different, but I've found the relationships to be rewarding. I had a much easier time engaging with people since I learned to speak Chinese reasonably well. I can count on one hand the time I was treated poorly or someone was rude because I was a foreigner, though I can't count the times I was charged more for being a foreigner. The foreigner tax thing gets annoying, and I did better as my Chinese improved.
Fourth, though inflation has eaten away at it somewhat, the savings potential and quality of life one can live in China being a teacher at an international school is still great. Just one aspect of this is the ability to hire inexpensive nanny/maid/cook, generally referred to as ayi's. You want inexpensive child care with people who love kids. Check! You want home cooked meals prepared for you. Check! You want someone to do your laundry and iron everything. Check!
Fifth, with the exception of traffic accidents, I still think of China as a very safe place to be. My friends and I would think nothing of walking through any part of the city at any time of the day or night. Theft can be a problem, but robbery of foreigners is exceedingly rare. In general violence directed at foreigners is rare, though there are exceptions. Usually it involved a male foreigner being an absolute jackass, and the kind of thing that would be a problem anywhere. Being an Asian foreigner or a black foreigner can mean very different treatment by Chinese people.
Sixth, inexpensive massage is amazing.
Dredge, China is certainly not a place for everybody. The pollution can really get to people, the crowds you have to deal with everywhere can wear you down, the uncertainty brought about by the change that is always going on can be frustrating, the difficulty with language issues for people who don't speak Chinese, and the dangers with contaminated food is worrisome (this is probably the scariest for both Chinese and foreigners).
To be honest, a number of these issues arise in other counties in Asia to greater or lesser degrees. Some of the upsides are to be found in these other countries too.
I'm sure everyone has a different reason for going to China, but I'd lay out the reasons I see commonly. I would also say that even people who enjoy living in China, can have a love/hate relationship with the place. Some days I was thrilled to be there, and other days I was ready to punch in the face the next person who was trying to push their way onto an elevator as everyone was exiting it on the ground floor.
First, there are a heck of a lot of jobs in China these days. The combination of foreign companies setting up shop and having employees based out of China, and Chinese people having the money to pay for Western curriculum at private and public Chinese-run schools has meant there are lots of schools looking for foreign teachers. Within that is a huge range of quality obviously, and I would say in general, the foreign run schools are better places to work though there are plenty of exceptions. It's also a very big country, and by living in different areas of the country you can experience a very different lifestyle.
Secondly, for all the problems the country has as they develop, it is a fascinating place to be. I think there are few examples in history of countries where life is changing so rapidly. Peter Hessler, probably the best foreign writer about life in China, has some very insightful things to say about it. I lived in Shanghai for 3 years about 10 years ago, and I was literally seeing the place change before my eyes. I headed back for brief trips after a couple years, and the places I knew had radically changed. I'm going back next year, and I don't expect it to be the same country. If you're into novelty, China is a great place to be.
Third, for as awful as Chinese people can be in public and in their interactions with strangers, I have had wonderful friendships with Chinese people who I have gotten to know well. Chinese people can be extremely gracious, and they respond very well when you show an interest in their country and their culture. They are the most encouraging of people as you butcher their language, "Oh, your Chinese is very good." Compare this with Japan, where I've heard from friends who have lived there that the general attitude of Japanese is, "if you can't speak our language correctly, then don't speak it at all." Again, these relationships take a bit of effort because foreigners' lifestyle and Chinese people's lifestyle can be radically different, but I've found the relationships to be rewarding. I had a much easier time engaging with people since I learned to speak Chinese reasonably well. I can count on one hand the time I was treated poorly or someone was rude because I was a foreigner, though I can't count the times I was charged more for being a foreigner. The foreigner tax thing gets annoying, and I did better as my Chinese improved.
Fourth, though inflation has eaten away at it somewhat, the savings potential and quality of life one can live in China being a teacher at an international school is still great. Just one aspect of this is the ability to hire inexpensive nanny/maid/cook, generally referred to as ayi's. You want inexpensive child care with people who love kids. Check! You want home cooked meals prepared for you. Check! You want someone to do your laundry and iron everything. Check!
Fifth, with the exception of traffic accidents, I still think of China as a very safe place to be. My friends and I would think nothing of walking through any part of the city at any time of the day or night. Theft can be a problem, but robbery of foreigners is exceedingly rare. In general violence directed at foreigners is rare, though there are exceptions. Usually it involved a male foreigner being an absolute jackass, and the kind of thing that would be a problem anywhere. Being an Asian foreigner or a black foreigner can mean very different treatment by Chinese people.
Sixth, inexpensive massage is amazing.
Dredge, China is certainly not a place for everybody. The pollution can really get to people, the crowds you have to deal with everywhere can wear you down, the uncertainty brought about by the change that is always going on can be frustrating, the difficulty with language issues for people who don't speak Chinese, and the dangers with contaminated food is worrisome (this is probably the scariest for both Chinese and foreigners).
To be honest, a number of these issues arise in other counties in Asia to greater or lesser degrees. Some of the upsides are to be found in these other countries too.
-
Mick Travis
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:09 pm
- Location: Denmark
China why?
1. Because you won't find another country in the world with the same diversity of culture and geography.
2. Cuisine - you can live for years in China and not eat the same dish twice.
3. The excitement of living in a country that matters globally, in terms of politics, environment and society.
4. The pleasure of mastering a difficult language.
5. The pleasure of suprising young women with the relatively large size of your .... bank balance.
2. Cuisine - you can live for years in China and not eat the same dish twice.
3. The excitement of living in a country that matters globally, in terms of politics, environment and society.
4. The pleasure of mastering a difficult language.
5. The pleasure of suprising young women with the relatively large size of your .... bank balance.
-
Dredge
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:25 pm
- Location: Three continents, mentally and physically
Re: China why?
[quote="Mick Travis"]
5. The pleasure of suprising young women with the relatively large size of your .... bank balance.[/quote]
Is this part of the day-to-day life? :wink:
5. The pleasure of suprising young women with the relatively large size of your .... bank balance.[/quote]
Is this part of the day-to-day life? :wink:
-
Mick Travis
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:09 pm
- Location: Denmark
@Dredge - it could be if you are a skilled lothario or a whore-monger, but in reality these girls are mostly interested in the size of your earnings, as is the case in Thailand and elsewhere.
'The older white teacher fall in love, the young native woman [i]learn[/i] to love him back'
Of course, the white man is not such the commodity he was because there are plenty richer Chinese guys now, but it is still true you can go mad upriver, Kurtz style, from over-exposure to sex.
'The older white teacher fall in love, the young native woman [i]learn[/i] to love him back'
Of course, the white man is not such the commodity he was because there are plenty richer Chinese guys now, but it is still true you can go mad upriver, Kurtz style, from over-exposure to sex.
There are a lot of reasons why China rubs people up the wrong way or why some people just can't stand the place, but there are a lot of expats in China (certainly more than I expected) who seem to enjoy it. Here are the reasons I perceived why people like it from interactions with people when I was there.
1. For some it just satisfies a curiosity. It's a place that you always see on the news but not often hear about people visiting. It's a massive leap into the unknown and putting a picture of themselves walking across Tiananmen square is like the coolest thing ever. In fairness, it does feel pretty cool, and pic's on the great wall are definitely good souvenirs.
2. Some people really want to learn Chinese and love the Chinese history and culture. For them, it's obvious why they'd like China. For them it's like living the dream.
3. Despite the widely reported food contamination issues, it's really not that bad. There is an incredible choice of food there. You have to learn some Chinese to be able to order it, but it's well worth the hard work. I still miss the grilled lamb skewers covered with cumin (at least I think it was lamb). Local food is also very cheap.
4. Travel opportunities around China are amazing. Outside of China it seems as though people have only heard of a few famous places, but once you're in China or really look into the place you find that there are really a lot of very interesting places.
5. You can have a good quality spending little money. That's why it's an easy place for people looking for an adventure to go, learn some Chinese, work in a language school for 20 hours a week and have a great time.
6. Nightlife in big cities is quite good, and again, not expensive.
The food, travel opportunities and cost of living where why I liked it, but China seems to change a lot in short spaces of time. Maybe my ideas about prices and cost of living are outdated, but that was my impression when I was there. I do mss the food and travel though.
1. For some it just satisfies a curiosity. It's a place that you always see on the news but not often hear about people visiting. It's a massive leap into the unknown and putting a picture of themselves walking across Tiananmen square is like the coolest thing ever. In fairness, it does feel pretty cool, and pic's on the great wall are definitely good souvenirs.
2. Some people really want to learn Chinese and love the Chinese history and culture. For them, it's obvious why they'd like China. For them it's like living the dream.
3. Despite the widely reported food contamination issues, it's really not that bad. There is an incredible choice of food there. You have to learn some Chinese to be able to order it, but it's well worth the hard work. I still miss the grilled lamb skewers covered with cumin (at least I think it was lamb). Local food is also very cheap.
4. Travel opportunities around China are amazing. Outside of China it seems as though people have only heard of a few famous places, but once you're in China or really look into the place you find that there are really a lot of very interesting places.
5. You can have a good quality spending little money. That's why it's an easy place for people looking for an adventure to go, learn some Chinese, work in a language school for 20 hours a week and have a great time.
6. Nightlife in big cities is quite good, and again, not expensive.
The food, travel opportunities and cost of living where why I liked it, but China seems to change a lot in short spaces of time. Maybe my ideas about prices and cost of living are outdated, but that was my impression when I was there. I do mss the food and travel though.
Exactly how I felt about India.Not worth it for me!
[quote="durianfan"]I have been here in China for 2 years and I can't wait to leave. I won't be back. China is very hazardous to one's health, and the doctors here are fairly useless. The first thing I'll be doing when I finally leave is getting a full health checkup.
No amount of money would make me want to return.[/quote]
[quote="durianfan"]I have been here in China for 2 years and I can't wait to leave. I won't be back. China is very hazardous to one's health, and the doctors here are fairly useless. The first thing I'll be doing when I finally leave is getting a full health checkup.
No amount of money would make me want to return.[/quote]
-
eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm