Hello, I am new to the forum and am graduating in June from a seven sisters college and have recently been offered an appointment with a school in Japan, my problem is I do not know what salary is good.
My background:
French National
Bachelor of Arts in French Cultural Studies.
Elementary school certification and secondary school certification in French to be awarded this summer.
I have only my student teaching experience.
I have found only a few postings regarding salary scales in China. The school in Japan that wishes to hire me has asked me how much salary I want, and do not know how to reply. The school is small with 300 students and is located in Kobe, Japan. How much should I ask for in salary and what other benefits should I ask for as well?
Thank you, one and all for your assistance.
Japan Salary
I currently work at the top international school in Tokyo right now. I've been working here for around 7 years. Most of my friends are international school teachers in Tokyo. Here are the rough estimates :
1) ESL Teacher ( No teaching license, no certification ) : 210, 000 - 250, 000 yen / month ( $ 2120 USD - $ 2500 USD / month )
2) LOWER TIER SCHOOLS
0-2 years experience ( starting ) : 300, 000 yen - 350, 000 yen / month
* The increments of increase depend on each school, but it's not more than 100, 000 yen EVERY 1 - 2 years ( approx. $ 1000 - $ 1200 USD EVERY 1 - 2 years ).
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 400, 000 - 450, 000 yen / month
3) UPPER TIER SCHOOLS ( Mostly in Tokyo - international schools with a large number of expatriate students )
0 - 2 years experience ( starting ) : 500, 000 yen - 600, 000 yen / month
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 650, 000 yen - 800, 000 yen / month
Overall, you make a lot of money in Japan as a teacher. If you are living in Kobe, 400, 000 yen - 450, 000 yen a month is a great salary, but that's if you have experience. Most Japanese international schools require that teachers have either 2 + years experience ( not just 0-2 years...but beyond 2 years ). It's quite competitive to get into Japan.
Also, I am surprised that they are asking you WHAT YOU WANT for a salary. Basically, depending on how many years you have been teaching, you should ask more than 350, 000 yen / month.
1) ESL Teacher ( No teaching license, no certification ) : 210, 000 - 250, 000 yen / month ( $ 2120 USD - $ 2500 USD / month )
2) LOWER TIER SCHOOLS
0-2 years experience ( starting ) : 300, 000 yen - 350, 000 yen / month
* The increments of increase depend on each school, but it's not more than 100, 000 yen EVERY 1 - 2 years ( approx. $ 1000 - $ 1200 USD EVERY 1 - 2 years ).
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 400, 000 - 450, 000 yen / month
3) UPPER TIER SCHOOLS ( Mostly in Tokyo - international schools with a large number of expatriate students )
0 - 2 years experience ( starting ) : 500, 000 yen - 600, 000 yen / month
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 650, 000 yen - 800, 000 yen / month
Overall, you make a lot of money in Japan as a teacher. If you are living in Kobe, 400, 000 yen - 450, 000 yen a month is a great salary, but that's if you have experience. Most Japanese international schools require that teachers have either 2 + years experience ( not just 0-2 years...but beyond 2 years ). It's quite competitive to get into Japan.
Also, I am surprised that they are asking you WHAT YOU WANT for a salary. Basically, depending on how many years you have been teaching, you should ask more than 350, 000 yen / month.
mbovi, I'll ask you rather than starting another thread.
Teachers at my school here in Brazil have tried to scare me about the workload for teachers in Japan: "you'll be working 70 to 80 hours a week!" That sounds completely ridiculous. 80 hours a week is, what, working 12 hour days Monday through Saturday, plus another 8 hours on Sunday.
And they aren't talking about time spent grading and planning at home, they are talking about spending all that time AT the school.
What's the reality in your experience? I gather that teachers stay in Japan for many years once they land a good job, and I can't believe they would do that if they are working much more than a regular 40 hour week.
Teachers at my school here in Brazil have tried to scare me about the workload for teachers in Japan: "you'll be working 70 to 80 hours a week!" That sounds completely ridiculous. 80 hours a week is, what, working 12 hour days Monday through Saturday, plus another 8 hours on Sunday.
And they aren't talking about time spent grading and planning at home, they are talking about spending all that time AT the school.
What's the reality in your experience? I gather that teachers stay in Japan for many years once they land a good job, and I can't believe they would do that if they are working much more than a regular 40 hour week.
[quote="KellyGuy"]mbovi, I'll ask you rather than starting another thread.
Teachers at my school here in Brazil have tried to scare me about the workload for teachers in Japan: "you'll be working 70 to 80 hours a week!" That sounds completely ridiculous. 80 hours a week is, what, working 12 hour days Monday through Saturday, plus another 8 hours on Sunday.
And they aren't talking about time spent grading and planning at home, they are talking about spending all that time AT the school.
What's the reality in your experience? I gather that teachers stay in Japan for many years once they land a good job, and I can't believe they would do that if they are working much more than a regular 40 hour week.[/quote]
After eight years in Japan in my experience you work no more and no less than elsewhere.
Teachers at my school here in Brazil have tried to scare me about the workload for teachers in Japan: "you'll be working 70 to 80 hours a week!" That sounds completely ridiculous. 80 hours a week is, what, working 12 hour days Monday through Saturday, plus another 8 hours on Sunday.
And they aren't talking about time spent grading and planning at home, they are talking about spending all that time AT the school.
What's the reality in your experience? I gather that teachers stay in Japan for many years once they land a good job, and I can't believe they would do that if they are working much more than a regular 40 hour week.[/quote]
After eight years in Japan in my experience you work no more and no less than elsewhere.
[quote="CaliPro"]Could one live outside of tokyo and commute in for work to cut costs etc?
Would one be able to save 1/2 their salary?
Are those figures pre tax or after tax?[/quote]
Many schools are not in the centre anyway (centre meaning within the Yamanote loop line). Saving half a salary is not unrealistic. You can live extremely comfortably on 200,000 yen or even 150,000 per month, plus rent.
Would one be able to save 1/2 their salary?
Are those figures pre tax or after tax?[/quote]
Many schools are not in the centre anyway (centre meaning within the Yamanote loop line). Saving half a salary is not unrealistic. You can live extremely comfortably on 200,000 yen or even 150,000 per month, plus rent.
French native teacher looking for good schools in Japan
Dear Mbovi,
I am desperately trying to get a job in Japan as a French teacher.I am a native speaker with 8 years IB experience.Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you.
[quote="mbovi"]I currently work at the top international school in Tokyo right now. I've been working here for around 7 years. Most of my friends are international school teachers in Tokyo. Here are the rough estimates :
1) ESL Teacher ( No teaching license, no certification ) : 210, 000 - 250, 000 yen / month ( $ 2120 USD - $ 2500 USD / month )
2) LOWER TIER SCHOOLS
0-2 years experience ( starting ) : 300, 000 yen - 350, 000 yen / month
* The increments of increase depend on each school, but it's not more than 100, 000 yen EVERY 1 - 2 years ( approx. $ 1000 - $ 1200 USD EVERY 1 - 2 years ).
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 400, 000 - 450, 000 yen / month
3) UPPER TIER SCHOOLS ( Mostly in Tokyo - international schools with a large number of expatriate students )
0 - 2 years experience ( starting ) : 500, 000 yen - 600, 000 yen / month
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 650, 000 yen - 800, 000 yen / month
Overall, you make a lot of money in Japan as a teacher. If you are living in Kobe, 400, 000 yen - 450, 000 yen a month is a great salary, but that's if you have experience. Most Japanese international schools require that teachers have either 2 + years experience ( not just 0-2 years...but beyond 2 years ). It's quite competitive to get into Japan.
Also, I am surprised that they are asking you WHAT YOU WANT for a salary. Basically, depending on how many years you have been teaching, you should ask more than 350, 000 yen / month.[/quote]
I am desperately trying to get a job in Japan as a French teacher.I am a native speaker with 8 years IB experience.Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you.
[quote="mbovi"]I currently work at the top international school in Tokyo right now. I've been working here for around 7 years. Most of my friends are international school teachers in Tokyo. Here are the rough estimates :
1) ESL Teacher ( No teaching license, no certification ) : 210, 000 - 250, 000 yen / month ( $ 2120 USD - $ 2500 USD / month )
2) LOWER TIER SCHOOLS
0-2 years experience ( starting ) : 300, 000 yen - 350, 000 yen / month
* The increments of increase depend on each school, but it's not more than 100, 000 yen EVERY 1 - 2 years ( approx. $ 1000 - $ 1200 USD EVERY 1 - 2 years ).
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 400, 000 - 450, 000 yen / month
3) UPPER TIER SCHOOLS ( Mostly in Tokyo - international schools with a large number of expatriate students )
0 - 2 years experience ( starting ) : 500, 000 yen - 600, 000 yen / month
2 - 5 years experience ( approx ) : 650, 000 yen - 800, 000 yen / month
Overall, you make a lot of money in Japan as a teacher. If you are living in Kobe, 400, 000 yen - 450, 000 yen a month is a great salary, but that's if you have experience. Most Japanese international schools require that teachers have either 2 + years experience ( not just 0-2 years...but beyond 2 years ). It's quite competitive to get into Japan.
Also, I am surprised that they are asking you WHAT YOU WANT for a salary. Basically, depending on how many years you have been teaching, you should ask more than 350, 000 yen / month.[/quote]
-
FrenchGurl
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:41 pm
[quote="FrenchGurl"]Thank you, they are asking me what my pay expectations are. What other benefits should I ask for, or would be typical especially for a living allowance?[/quote]
If you really want the job and you really want to live in Japan I think you have to be realistic and say something not greater than 400,000 yen (salary and housing combined). I am guessing it is St Michaels or Marist Brothers so they are not the best paying schools in Japan. You will still be very comfortable on this salary and Kobe is a great place to live.
Really they should be offering you a salary according to their pay scale though.
If you really want the job and you really want to live in Japan I think you have to be realistic and say something not greater than 400,000 yen (salary and housing combined). I am guessing it is St Michaels or Marist Brothers so they are not the best paying schools in Japan. You will still be very comfortable on this salary and Kobe is a great place to live.
Really they should be offering you a salary according to their pay scale though.
[quote="KellyGuy"]mbovi, I'll ask you rather than starting another thread.
Teachers at my school here in Brazil have tried to scare me about the workload for teachers in Japan: "you'll be working 70 to 80 hours a week!" That sounds completely ridiculous. 80 hours a week is, what, working 12 hour days Monday through Saturday, plus another 8 hours on Sunday.
And they aren't talking about time spent grading and planning at home, they are talking about spending all that time AT the school.
What's the reality in your experience? I gather that teachers stay in Japan for many years once they land a good job, and I can't believe they would do that if they are working much more than a regular 40 hour week.[/quote]
It all depends on the school ( just like in EVERY single place ). Most Japanese international schools here ( except for the top ones like Yokohama and ASIJ ) have a Japanese administration ( i.e. owned by very rich Japanese corporation heads or businessmen ). This is NOT necessarily a bad thing like in many countries. For the most part, Japanese administration are highly efficient ( comes with the culture of working hard ) and they really take care of you. Even 2nd or 3rd tier schools are pretty good here in Japan ( especially in Tokyo ). In fact, a 3rd tier school here would be considered much better than your regular decent public school back home in North America.
As for the hours, NOBODY makes you work 70 - 80 hrs PAST your contract hours! That's just against the law. However, there is a " culture of obligation " where if you see all your teachers working or staying late until 7 pm every night, you feel that you have to...even though you DON'T HAVE TO. Don't listen to your co workers. I think it's just the whole hype about the Japanese culture being a workaholic one.
Teachers at my school here in Brazil have tried to scare me about the workload for teachers in Japan: "you'll be working 70 to 80 hours a week!" That sounds completely ridiculous. 80 hours a week is, what, working 12 hour days Monday through Saturday, plus another 8 hours on Sunday.
And they aren't talking about time spent grading and planning at home, they are talking about spending all that time AT the school.
What's the reality in your experience? I gather that teachers stay in Japan for many years once they land a good job, and I can't believe they would do that if they are working much more than a regular 40 hour week.[/quote]
It all depends on the school ( just like in EVERY single place ). Most Japanese international schools here ( except for the top ones like Yokohama and ASIJ ) have a Japanese administration ( i.e. owned by very rich Japanese corporation heads or businessmen ). This is NOT necessarily a bad thing like in many countries. For the most part, Japanese administration are highly efficient ( comes with the culture of working hard ) and they really take care of you. Even 2nd or 3rd tier schools are pretty good here in Japan ( especially in Tokyo ). In fact, a 3rd tier school here would be considered much better than your regular decent public school back home in North America.
As for the hours, NOBODY makes you work 70 - 80 hrs PAST your contract hours! That's just against the law. However, there is a " culture of obligation " where if you see all your teachers working or staying late until 7 pm every night, you feel that you have to...even though you DON'T HAVE TO. Don't listen to your co workers. I think it's just the whole hype about the Japanese culture being a workaholic one.
[quote="CaliPro"]Could one live outside of tokyo and commute in for work to cut costs etc?
Would one be able to save 1/2 their salary?
Are those figures pre tax or after tax?[/quote]
These figures are PRE-TAX.
And yes, you can save a fair bit on your salary. The accommodations are usually covered by the school ( school allowance ) and so, you can save a lot. I am not sure why people think Japan is insanely expensive that you can't save. If it was, then you would have a high turn over of international school teachers and this would NOT be a popular destination...but it is. In fact, it's extremely hard to get in Japan bc no one wants to leave.
Would one be able to save 1/2 their salary?
Are those figures pre tax or after tax?[/quote]
These figures are PRE-TAX.
And yes, you can save a fair bit on your salary. The accommodations are usually covered by the school ( school allowance ) and so, you can save a lot. I am not sure why people think Japan is insanely expensive that you can't save. If it was, then you would have a high turn over of international school teachers and this would NOT be a popular destination...but it is. In fact, it's extremely hard to get in Japan bc no one wants to leave.
Re: French native teacher looking for good schools in Japan
[quote="djbambi"]Dear Mbovi,
I am desperately trying to get a job in Japan as a French teacher.I am a native speaker with 8 years IB experience.Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you. [/quote]
Interestingly enough, amongst the adults ( 20 - 40 ), there is a decent-sized demand for the acquisition of the French language. The Japanese seem to have a great deal of interest in European culture in the last recent years with many French restaurants popping up, French cultural hobbies and of course, a lot of Japanese women dating French men ( haha ). However, at international schools, French is not readily offered bc of the difficulty with Japanese students acquiring and mastering the English language. English is the priority. It's very rare to find a French position at international schools here, I'm afraid :( Your chances are quite low for English will always be the priority.
I am desperately trying to get a job in Japan as a French teacher.I am a native speaker with 8 years IB experience.Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you. [/quote]
Interestingly enough, amongst the adults ( 20 - 40 ), there is a decent-sized demand for the acquisition of the French language. The Japanese seem to have a great deal of interest in European culture in the last recent years with many French restaurants popping up, French cultural hobbies and of course, a lot of Japanese women dating French men ( haha ). However, at international schools, French is not readily offered bc of the difficulty with Japanese students acquiring and mastering the English language. English is the priority. It's very rare to find a French position at international schools here, I'm afraid :( Your chances are quite low for English will always be the priority.
As I mentioned in another thread here, there are great benefits ( mostly outweighing the bad ) in getting a position at an international school in Japan.
PROS
1. Heads and directors assume that you are a " very hard working " person to have beat out the line of long candidates for a position in Japan. Also, the Japanese culture is a workaholic one and to be considered for a position means that you either showed all these wonderful qualities in your previous position to have even landed a position here.
2. Lots of money to be made...no matter how expensive Japan is. I was lucky to have been here for the last 7 years where the yen consistently beat out the dollar. It is now on par with each other ( with the yen only slightly higher ) and I still make heaps of money.
3. Japan is an AMAZING, AMAZING, AMAZING country to be in as an expatriate : You've got the glitz, glamour and excitement of the cities ( especially Tokyo ). You've got the adventurous, outdoorsy stuff to do in the countryside that surround the major cities. The seasons are extremely beautiful and stark in differences to the point that people celebrate it and view it at every turn. The culture is very rich. The people ( although can be inherently racist by virtues of their isolationist stance for centuries ) are ultimately VERY conscientious, nice, accommodating, non-confrontational, quiet and polite. There are so many things to do ( cultural festivals that have been carried out for centuries, museums, galleries, outdoor events, major concerts ). I don't think the public transportation can be beaten by any other public transportation around the world. It really is the lifeline of the country. The country is highly safe ( people return your wallet to you, even if it has heaps of money in it! ), highly efficient and convenient. You will find that when you live here, EVERY LITTLE THING that people do is for your convenience ( e.g. the first shopping basket on top of a pile of shopping baskets at a supermarket is ALWAYS tilted for your convenience to pick up when you enter or the tip of the toilet roll is always folded in a triangular point to show to customers using the bathroom that it has already been cleaned for their convenience.....all these are little things, but they are for your convenience ).
CONS
1. Language barrier : English ( no matter how long the Japanese have implemented it in their educational system ) is not easy for the Japanese. Even in highly international places like Tokyo, the majority of the Japanese people will NOT speak English ( except if you are young, educated abroad and have lived abroad for many years ).
2. Rent : If your school does not subsidize or give you a housing allowance, it will be difficult to live. Rent is extremely high but not as high as in Singapore ( in Singapore, you could expect to pay around $ 3000 - $ 5000 for a condo apt. In Tokyo, you're paying at around $ 1500 - $ 2500...and that's the average price for a tiny apt ).
PROS
1. Heads and directors assume that you are a " very hard working " person to have beat out the line of long candidates for a position in Japan. Also, the Japanese culture is a workaholic one and to be considered for a position means that you either showed all these wonderful qualities in your previous position to have even landed a position here.
2. Lots of money to be made...no matter how expensive Japan is. I was lucky to have been here for the last 7 years where the yen consistently beat out the dollar. It is now on par with each other ( with the yen only slightly higher ) and I still make heaps of money.
3. Japan is an AMAZING, AMAZING, AMAZING country to be in as an expatriate : You've got the glitz, glamour and excitement of the cities ( especially Tokyo ). You've got the adventurous, outdoorsy stuff to do in the countryside that surround the major cities. The seasons are extremely beautiful and stark in differences to the point that people celebrate it and view it at every turn. The culture is very rich. The people ( although can be inherently racist by virtues of their isolationist stance for centuries ) are ultimately VERY conscientious, nice, accommodating, non-confrontational, quiet and polite. There are so many things to do ( cultural festivals that have been carried out for centuries, museums, galleries, outdoor events, major concerts ). I don't think the public transportation can be beaten by any other public transportation around the world. It really is the lifeline of the country. The country is highly safe ( people return your wallet to you, even if it has heaps of money in it! ), highly efficient and convenient. You will find that when you live here, EVERY LITTLE THING that people do is for your convenience ( e.g. the first shopping basket on top of a pile of shopping baskets at a supermarket is ALWAYS tilted for your convenience to pick up when you enter or the tip of the toilet roll is always folded in a triangular point to show to customers using the bathroom that it has already been cleaned for their convenience.....all these are little things, but they are for your convenience ).
CONS
1. Language barrier : English ( no matter how long the Japanese have implemented it in their educational system ) is not easy for the Japanese. Even in highly international places like Tokyo, the majority of the Japanese people will NOT speak English ( except if you are young, educated abroad and have lived abroad for many years ).
2. Rent : If your school does not subsidize or give you a housing allowance, it will be difficult to live. Rent is extremely high but not as high as in Singapore ( in Singapore, you could expect to pay around $ 3000 - $ 5000 for a condo apt. In Tokyo, you're paying at around $ 1500 - $ 2500...and that's the average price for a tiny apt ).
Reply
@FrenchGurl
I would ask for 300KÂ¥, heres the thing. Your not even out of school and have no experience, so for Japan the only schools that are going to be interested in you are low tier bilingual schools. These schools dont pay much above ELL schools. The following pay scales are a rough estimate:
ELL = 250KÂ¥
3rd Tier = 320KÂ¥
2nd Tier = 410KÂ¥
1st Tier = 500KÂ¥
Elite = 600KÂ¥ and up (emphasis on the up)
If you dont get a housing allowance and likely at this level you wont, the school should arrange a subsidized apartment, meaning you pay the rent, but the school covers the deposit, key money, and agent and management fees.
On top of that you should get airfare.
@djbambi
I would look at the French Lychee schools for starters. There is one in Kyoto:
http://www.ecolefrancaisedukansai.org/
and another in Tokyo:
http://www.lfitokyo.org/
Another option is to get to Japan in whatever capactcity you can even as an ELL teacher to somewhere like Tokyo and then keep waiting for a vacancy to pop up. In these situations schools need to hire someone fast and they cant take the time on an OSH, since they dont have time to get a COE. In such a case your in the right place at the right time.
@CaliPro
Many people work outside Tokyo and commute to save money on living expenses.
I disagree with mbovi, you cant save half your income unless your making a very good salary and have a housing allowance, which your only going to find at the top tier schools.
Taxes are about 13% depending on your ward and prefecture. Salaries are typically quoted pre-tax.
@KellyGuy
It really depends on the school but what you describe is more typical of an elite school in japan, but its also very descriptive of elite schools everywhere.
The reality is it depends on your definition of "work", if you mean being at the school or in the case of a salaryman being at the office then yes they have very long hours, but most of these hours are really just waiting for the boss to leave, or in the case of a school its marking papers, preping lessons and just generally being "around".
I would ask for 300KÂ¥, heres the thing. Your not even out of school and have no experience, so for Japan the only schools that are going to be interested in you are low tier bilingual schools. These schools dont pay much above ELL schools. The following pay scales are a rough estimate:
ELL = 250KÂ¥
3rd Tier = 320KÂ¥
2nd Tier = 410KÂ¥
1st Tier = 500KÂ¥
Elite = 600KÂ¥ and up (emphasis on the up)
If you dont get a housing allowance and likely at this level you wont, the school should arrange a subsidized apartment, meaning you pay the rent, but the school covers the deposit, key money, and agent and management fees.
On top of that you should get airfare.
@djbambi
I would look at the French Lychee schools for starters. There is one in Kyoto:
http://www.ecolefrancaisedukansai.org/
and another in Tokyo:
http://www.lfitokyo.org/
Another option is to get to Japan in whatever capactcity you can even as an ELL teacher to somewhere like Tokyo and then keep waiting for a vacancy to pop up. In these situations schools need to hire someone fast and they cant take the time on an OSH, since they dont have time to get a COE. In such a case your in the right place at the right time.
@CaliPro
Many people work outside Tokyo and commute to save money on living expenses.
I disagree with mbovi, you cant save half your income unless your making a very good salary and have a housing allowance, which your only going to find at the top tier schools.
Taxes are about 13% depending on your ward and prefecture. Salaries are typically quoted pre-tax.
@KellyGuy
It really depends on the school but what you describe is more typical of an elite school in japan, but its also very descriptive of elite schools everywhere.
The reality is it depends on your definition of "work", if you mean being at the school or in the case of a salaryman being at the office then yes they have very long hours, but most of these hours are really just waiting for the boss to leave, or in the case of a school its marking papers, preping lessons and just generally being "around".