Go to the Search Bangkok or Cambridge Fair next year?

[superteacher]

...

[vettievette]

Based on both of your credentials - go to Bangkok or London. Your experience (IB or not) will get you both noticed. Good IB schools offer IB training either in-house or abroad if that's what you're looking for. The need for EAL/ELL teachers with international school experience is growing.

[superteacher]

Thank you vettievette, so you think we have a relatively good chance of getting an offer at the Bangkok fair? We applied last year, when I only had 2 years experience, and no Humanities experience and had about 3 interviews but no offers...Now with 4 years, and 7 years for my wife we do feel much more prepared. When including the Masters I'm getting, I feel like I would do so much better in interviews, not having to research common questions, and knowing exactly how I should be answering them.

[shadowjack]

I would go for London over Bangkok. You have a lot of ESL teaching experience and some regular classroom experience. But you have no IB. London is a bigger fair and many schools this year seemed to wait for London to hire. Each year is different I know, but you will get a different mix of schools in London than in Bangkok.

Perhaps the best bit of advice I would give you is to do what we did - ask your associate which fair he thinks you would fare better at - and go with that.

We asked our associate and he said we would do well at Bangkok (even though Mrs. Shadowjack is not a teacher yet - TCNJ this summer and next!) and sure enough, we did.

Good luck!

[durianfan]

Are you after an ESL position or a humanities position? If it's the latter, then your ESL experience will not count.

The no IB experience is the killer - you might get something in Bangkok but you'd have better luck at Cambridge or London I think. In Bangkok every recruiter at sign-up will ask you if you have IB experience. Most will not interview people without it unless it's in a high-demand subject area.

[superteacher]

[quote="shadowjack"]I would go for London over Bangkok. You have a lot of ESL teaching experience and some regular classroom experience. But you have no IB. London is a bigger fair and many schools this year seemed to wait for London to hire. Each year is different I know, but you will get a different mix of schools in London than in Bangkok.

Perhaps the best bit of advice I would give you is to do what we did - ask your associate which fair he thinks you would fare better at - and go with that.

We asked our associate and he said we would do well at Bangkok (even though Mrs. Shadowjack is not a teacher yet - TCNJ this summer and next!) and sure enough, we did.

Good luck![/quote]

Thanks Shadowjack,

I actually asked my associate Michael Williams yesterday, and he said that Bangkok would be his choice, but he did say that London was good too. Thought that Cambridge is much too far for us, and also thought that Bangkok was early in the fair so if we didn't get a position we had time to keep searching or to join another fair... I think that's pretty good advice, but just wanted to take the pulse of this board.

Durianfan, Humanities, then EAL.

Why won't EAL count, it was at the same school and I was certified. I know what you meant about having experience in what you teach, and I would have 3 years experience in EAL and 2 in Humanities, yes one was an EAL Humanities position but the curriculum was shadowing the mainstream, with identical assessment. If anything, I would think that it shows my versatility and an ability to differentiate in the mainstream. As vettievette said, mainstream teachers with EAL background is sought after these days. On my resume, I will indicate 3 years EAL and 2 years Humanities which is true...

With regards to the lack of IB experience, I would apply for high school as well, but my focus would be in middle school, where my experience lies...

I do appreciate the advice though, it's something to think about.

Also, isn't London THE IB fair, why would it be better to go to London over Bangkok?

[jbiersteker]

Our experience in Cambridge was that without IB, you weren't getting many offers. Interviews maybe, but not jobs.

Thanks!!

[durianfan]

If it was at the same school then you should be fine. But if teaching humanities is what you're after, I don't see how your EAL experience is helpful in securing you a job in a different subject area other than EAL.

Also, humanities is probably the least competitive subject. Coupled with the fact that you have no IB experience - honestly I don't think you will have much luck in Bangkok.

[shadowjack]

Hi Superteacher,

If Michael thought you would do well in Bangkok, then go. Understand, however, that many experienced international teachers, even though they don't have an EAL endorsement, deal with EAL every day at whatever international school they are at, so it is not a plus or a minus, just an assumption that you can deal with a diverse clientele.

Humanities, without any IB experience, might be tough. However, if you are targeting different job areas (for instance, applying for some humanities positions and also for some EAL or ESL or EFL or IB Language B positions, either MYP or IBDP, then make sure you prepare two totally separate CVs; one highlighting your strength in EAL or whatever, and the other highlighting your strengths in Humanities. I was in Bangkok this year with a more generic CV geared mainly to tech jobs, and I could have had quite a few more interviews for with English or History (my other areas) had I tailored two more resumes to those positions.

Also have a fall-back plan. If you go to Bangkok and don't secure a position there, what is the next step of your plan? Which fair will you target (we had targetted Dubai as our next fair because we could get away for it)? Will your school give you leave.

Above all, whichever fair you go to, have everything prepared and ready to go by October. CV, cover letters, spreadsheet to track and compare positions - and go through them to make sure they are mistake-free. Those first impressions on paper count for a lot. Remember to put a photo of yourself, or you and Mrs. Superteacher, on each of your CVs.

Good luck!

[superteacher]

[quote="shadowjack"]Hi Superteacher,

If Michael thought you would do well in Bangkok, then go. Understand, however, that many experienced international teachers, even though they don't have an EAL endorsement, deal with EAL every day at whatever international school they are at, so it is not a plus or a minus, just an assumption that you can deal with a diverse clientele.

Humanities, without any IB experience, might be tough. However, if you are targeting different job areas (for instance, applying for some humanities positions and also for some EAL or ESL or EFL or IB Language B positions, either MYP or IBDP, then make sure you prepare two totally separate CVs; one highlighting your strength in EAL or whatever, and the other highlighting your strengths in Humanities. I was in Bangkok this year with a more generic CV geared mainly to tech jobs, and I could have had quite a few more interviews for with English or History (my other areas) had I tailored two more resumes to those positions.

Also have a fall-back plan. If you go to Bangkok and don't secure a position there, what is the next step of your plan? Which fair will you target (we had targetted Dubai as our next fair because we could get away for it)? Will your school give you leave.

Above all, whichever fair you go to, have everything prepared and ready to go by October. CV, cover letters, spreadsheet to track and compare positions - and go through them to make sure they are mistake-free. Those first impressions on paper count for a lot. Remember to put a photo of yourself, or you and Mrs. Superteacher, on each of your CVs.

Good luck![/quote]

Thanks Shadowjack I see what you mean about the EAL, and teachers having that ability to work with different students, but it's a skill none the less and one that is being emphasized more and more. Lots of teachers shun EALs and would rather have them out of their class room, which I think is ridiculous.

For the fairs, we were thinking of attending ISS and then Search Bangkok. Last year, we found that there were quite a few schools which had the positions we wanted, but when the time of the fair came, one position was already gone at ISS.

Another idea would be to attend the Cambridge, Dubai or Bangkok spring fair.

I would be applying for EAL and Humanities jobs. With my experience, should my first choice be EAL, or Humanities? I have 3 years in EAL but 2 in Humanities, but my masters is in Social Studies, and I have a CQ in social studies, but a 120 hr certificate in EAL.

As far as writing two resumes, I'm not sure how much you can really alter a resume to tailor it to and EAL or Humanities position. Most of the information applies to both jobs, as far as my pd. Qualifications, experience, extra curricular are all things you would put on both resume's. Do you mind telling me what you specifically mean? I would think a resume showing all of your qualifications, for both EAL and Humanities would be better, that way if the school has multiple positions available in those areas, you can target them.

Do you think my extracurricular makes much a difference. I am the co director for a large international MUN conference that has a 350 student attendance, and coach it last year as well. Our kids go to the most prestigious conferences in the world.

I also have a few connections in international schools. Friends, old teachers who I knew when I studied at international schools, plus I am an alumnus at a tier 1 (IASAS) school and I have two teachers that I know who still work there, so I am hoping that would help me out. My parents were in international teaching for the last 30 years, so they have instilled me the value of networking.

[superteacher]

[quote="durianfan"]If it was at the same school then you should be fine. But if teaching humanities is what you're after, I don't see how your EAL experience is helpful in securing you a job in a different subject area other than EAL.

Also, humanities is probably the least competitive subject. Coupled with the fact that you have no IB experience - honestly I don't think you will have much luck in Bangkok.[/quote]

I see what you mean about IB experience, but I probably won't put much focus on highschool. I'd stick with middle school social studies or humanities. Yes there is MYP, but I feel that there are a lot of American curriculum schools as well. Do you think school want to see IB experience, even if they don't have IB positions available?

[durianfan]

I've been to the Bangkok fair three times. Most of the schools there are IB schools and thus want teachers with IB experience. There were very few schools that did not have IB programs.

[cdn]

My wife and I have no IB experience and only two years in the classroom, and we had several offers at the London fair from excellent schools. I couldn't recommend it enough.

[PsyGuy]

To begin with your 120 hr EAL certificates are worthless. I would even bring them up for fear that you may be perceived as an ELL teacher.

The difference between 3 years in EAL and 2 years in humanities is negligible there isnt a lot of differnece in teacher quality in one year (unless were talking the 1 year difference between a teacher with zero years and 1 year).

The CIS London fair has the reputation for being the IB fair, the SA London fair is more focused on European schools and european teachers.

IB experience for MYP is still very relevant and important to IB schools with MYP experience. Schools recruiting for their DIP program are harsher and less accommodating but it is no less important. Your experience is middle school so 6-8 grades and MYP is grade 6-10 not having HS experience at those levels is going to be more of an issue for a school in addition to the lack of IB experience. Thats going to be a very hard sell to a school in a saturated market such as humanities. Schools want secondary teachers who can do it all, meaning everything from grades 6-12. There isnt any reason to handicap themselves by choosing a teacher whos less flexible in what they can teach.

I disagree with Durianfan about your EAL experience, though i understand (and share) the position. The problem is that recruiters and admins get tons of resumes from ELL teachers teaching in language schools or EPs (English programs) who think because they stood in front of a room of kids and they have a TESOL certificate it makes them professional teachers, it doesnt (and this is why id leave of the 120 hr TESOL certificate, it just gives your resume a stink to it). Its so bad that the blanket and general approach is that ELL doesnt count, so many teachers try to justify and explain how their experience and what they did makes them different, but it doesnt, and dealing with them is just a pain (the same goes for teachers that think because they took a course in a subject in college, makes them "qualified" to teach a subject when they rent certified. it doesnt).
In your case you have a professional qualification in ELL and experience as a professional classroom teacher. I would just not bring up the EAL experience until you were in an interview.

You should apply for both EAL and humanities. In those fields you cant really spread yourself too thin. Your humanities is limited to middle school and while your EAL experience is more applicable to a wider and broader audience your about equally qualified and marketable for both.

I wouldnt have a separate resume either, unless you had separate teacher and administrator resumes and were looking for both types of positions. With your limited experience and being at mainly one school they will be fine on the same resume 9and they would be kind of light if you separated them). By combining them you have 5 years experience instead of only 2 or 3.

Your XCs (Extra Curricular) will be "nice" bonuses for a school but they arent going to make a contract. Everyone does XCs and its just expected and assumed that you have some talant you will be able to contribute. Being flexible is more marketable then being extremely accomplished in some activity.

In real ISs IB is the most marketable experience you can have. Most American schools are either elite level schools that your not very likely to start at or they are bottom tier bilingual schools using an american style curriculum, which from your post you dont want to be at. In that VERY large middle there is a lot of IB. Having IB experience is always marketable, at the least it shows you have pedagogical and methodological training and experience outside the "direct" teach (Drill and Kill) approach. ive never heard a school say "You have IB experience, we dont want you".

All the spring fairs are dump fairs. They are low tier schools scrambling for teachers because they arent successful at recruiting, or they are 2nd tier EU schools that dont recruit until late. Upper tier schools dont go to a fair to recruit 1 or 2 last minute positions. They simply go back to their files and call up the number 2 or number 3 runners up.

So your original question was which fair to go to. I would go to the BKK fair.
First, the law is you go to the earliest fair you can get into. Fairs arent just a place to "demo" a school or teacher, people get hired, and when they get hired, that position is no longer available to you. That means that as the recruiting season progresses fewer and fewer vacancies remain.
Second, there is a certain degree of perceived "quality inflation" as you go to more exclusive fairs. This means that you gain value by simply asscoiating yourself with the more prestigous fair, not to the other candidates at any particular fair, but among the overall general candidate pool. many people cant get an invite to the BKK fair, and just getting in the door elevates your standing, since their has to be something special about you if you got "in".
Third, the fair especially the super fairs like BKK are as much about networking as they are getting an offer. The BKK fair isnt justa fair its a recruiting convention. You will be able to (hopefully) meet with admins and recruiters that simply wont be attending any other fairs, your opportunity to talk to them even if just casually or informally will simply not be an option at a later fair they wont attend. these relationships and how they develop have to start somewhere. Where else are you going to have the top HOS from the elite schools all in one place that you can get access too.
Fourth, your a teaching couple and while primary is very popular, your not a very marketable humanities teacher. Your experience and expertise is limited to lower secondary, and their are lots of humanities teachers with IB experience and heavier resumes. The logiostical advantage of a couple only works from a recruiting perspective if the school has vacancies for both positions, and the BKK fair is going to have the most and broadest position availability. One of your strongest factors falls apart if a school doesnt have a vacancy for both of you when they hired a great humanities teacher at an earlier fair.

What it comes down too from my view is that your not going to get hired at any of the big fairs anyway. Whats going to happen is your going to want to network and interview, meet with as many admins and recruiters as you can, so that later in the year after the peak in recruiting is over you will be a real positive memorable experience with a school that has an opening for you later.

[superteacher]

[quote="PsyGuy"]To begin with your 120 hr EAL certificates are worthless. I would even bring them up for fear that you may be perceived as an ELL teacher.

The difference between 3 years in EAL and 2 years in humanities is negligible there isnt a lot of differnece in teacher quality in one year (unless were talking the 1 year difference between a teacher with zero years and 1 year).

The CIS London fair has the reputation for being the IB fair, the SA London fair is more focused on European schools and european teachers.

IB experience for MYP is still very relevant and important to IB schools with MYP experience. Schools recruiting for their DIP program are harsher and less accommodating but it is no less important. Your experience is middle school so 6-8 grades and MYP is grade 6-10 not having HS experience at those levels is going to be more of an issue for a school in addition to the lack of IB experience. Thats going to be a very hard sell to a school in a saturated market such as humanities. Schools want secondary teachers who can do it all, meaning everything from grades 6-12. There isnt any reason to handicap themselves by choosing a teacher whos less flexible in what they can teach.

I disagree with Durianfan about your EAL experience, though i understand (and share) the position. The problem is that recruiters and admins get tons of resumes from ELL teachers teaching in language schools or EPs (English programs) who think because they stood in front of a room of kids and they have a TESOL certificate it makes them professional teachers, it doesnt (and this is why id leave of the 120 hr TESOL certificate, it just gives your resume a stink to it). Its so bad that the blanket and general approach is that ELL doesnt count, so many teachers try to justify and explain how their experience and what they did makes them different, but it doesnt, and dealing with them is just a pain (the same goes for teachers that think because they took a course in a subject in college, makes them "qualified" to teach a subject when they rent certified. it doesnt).
In your case you have a professional qualification in ELL and experience as a professional classroom teacher. I would just not bring up the EAL experience until you were in an interview.

You should apply for both EAL and humanities. In those fields you cant really spread yourself too thin. Your humanities is limited to middle school and while your EAL experience is more applicable to a wider and broader audience your about equally qualified and marketable for both.

I wouldnt have a separate resume either, unless you had separate teacher and administrator resumes and were looking for both types of positions. With your limited experience and being at mainly one school they will be fine on the same resume 9and they would be kind of light if you separated them). By combining them you have 5 years experience instead of only 2 or 3.

Your XCs (Extra Curricular) will be "nice" bonuses for a school but they arent going to make a contract. Everyone does XCs and its just expected and assumed that you have some talant you will be able to contribute. Being flexible is more marketable then being extremely accomplished in some activity.

In real ISs IB is the most marketable experience you can have. Most American schools are either elite level schools that your not very likely to start at or they are bottom tier bilingual schools using an american style curriculum, which from your post you dont want to be at. In that VERY large middle there is a lot of IB. Having IB experience is always marketable, at the least it shows you have pedagogical and methodological training and experience outside the "direct" teach (Drill and Kill) approach. ive never heard a school say "You have IB experience, we dont want you".

All the spring fairs are dump fairs. They are low tier schools scrambling for teachers because they arent successful at recruiting, or they are 2nd tier EU schools that dont recruit until late. Upper tier schools dont go to a fair to recruit 1 or 2 last minute positions. They simply go back to their files and call up the number 2 or number 3 runners up.

So your original question was which fair to go to. I would go to the BKK fair.
First, the law is you go to the earliest fair you can get into. Fairs arent just a place to "demo" a school or teacher, people get hired, and when they get hired, that position is no longer available to you. That means that as the recruiting season progresses fewer and fewer vacancies remain.
Second, there is a certain degree of perceived "quality inflation" as you go to more exclusive fairs. This means that you gain value by simply asscoiating yourself with the more prestigous fair, not to the other candidates at any particular fair, but among the overall general candidate pool. many people cant get an invite to the BKK fair, and just getting in the door elevates your standing, since their has to be something special about you if you got "in".
Third, the fair especially the super fairs like BKK are as much about networking as they are getting an offer. The BKK fair isnt justa fair its a recruiting convention. You will be able to (hopefully) meet with admins and recruiters that simply wont be attending any other fairs, your opportunity to talk to them even if just casually or informally will simply not be an option at a later fair they wont attend. these relationships and how they develop have to start somewhere. Where else are you going to have the top HOS from the elite schools all in one place that you can get access too.
Fourth, your a teaching couple and while primary is very popular, your not a very marketable humanities teacher. Your experience and expertise is limited to lower secondary, and their are lots of humanities teachers with IB experience and heavier resumes. The logiostical advantage of a couple only works from a recruiting perspective if the school has vacancies for both positions, and the BKK fair is going to have the most and broadest position availability. One of your strongest factors falls apart if a school doesnt have a vacancy for both of you when they hired a great humanities teacher at an earlier fair.

What it comes down too from my view is that your not going to get hired at any of the big fairs anyway. Whats going to happen is your going to want to network and interview, meet with as many admins and recruiters as you can, so that later in the year after the peak in recruiting is over you will be a real positive memorable experience with a school that has an opening for you later.[/quote]

Thanks Psyguy, that was an informative response to my question. Might have been a little sobering, and I do hope that we find something at BKK, but like you said there is more time after that fair, so we will remain persistent until we find the job that we want...

My only question, is that you say that the 120 hr EAL certificate is worthless, and not to bring it up, until the interview. However I did have 3 years of experience at a tier 2 international school teaching EAL, does that not count for something? Would I just not include that in my resume. Sounds a little like job fair suicide, to remove 3 out of my 4 years experiences, just on the hunch that people would cringe at the EAL certificate. I understand what you mean, but there has to be another way to approach it, and make my experience valuable. I am definitely a competent EAL teacher, and that has nothing to do with my certificate, but everything to do with the in-school PD I received and the advice from fellow teachers, as well as me honing my craft. The area I do have a world class certification is in Humanties, but like you said my experience is light in it, so it is necessary to include the experience of EAL...

Appreciate the advice...