I am new to the international job hunt. I have been to two job fairs. Every interview I've had, I heard, "you're a strong candidate." They express how much they like my references. One recruiter went as far as to say that I was "in the running" for the position. The recruiters tend to be positive in their responses and always give the impression that I may get the job. However, I never get a follow up email to learn of the final outcome. I am finding that these international recruiters can be insensitive in their approach and not forthcoming with the truth. Has anyone had this experience during their search?
Thanks for the feedback
Not Understanding the Actions of Recruiters
Most international recruiters are two faced shits. Get used to it.
I have just wasted 3 weeks waiting for a contract to arrive and when I contacted the school they said that they were almost sure that they still needed me. This was after they had sent me an offer letter.
They will give you a good feeling when they are face 2 face and then fork about for weeks.
I have just wasted 3 weeks waiting for a contract to arrive and when I contacted the school they said that they were almost sure that they still needed me. This was after they had sent me an offer letter.
They will give you a good feeling when they are face 2 face and then fork about for weeks.
It can be frustrating when recruiters don't get back to you. I wouldn't say it's a problem that is endemic only to IT. I have friends back home in other fields who have the same problem when job hunting. They get one or two interviews and then...nothing.
Have you been contacting these recruiters after interviews? I always put a thank you note in their box after the interview. And, if necessary, another email the next day.
Have you been contacting these recruiters after interviews? I always put a thank you note in their box after the interview. And, if necessary, another email the next day.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
If they aren't signing you up to the contract, keep playing the line to hook the fish - er, job - but keep fishing! There are many strong candidates out there and some will already have international experience.
I had several recruiters at the fair express interest in me, but they were still recruiting. I was encouraged to stay in touch, but it was clear that no job offer would be immediately forthcoming.
Since my goal was to leave the fair with a job in hand, I kept looking and finally found a school that seems like a perfect fit for my values and skills.
Jobs are still out there - see if you can get one of the recruiters on Skype to further discuss the position. However, don't get too down if you don't get an offer!
I had several recruiters at the fair express interest in me, but they were still recruiting. I was encouraged to stay in touch, but it was clear that no job offer would be immediately forthcoming.
Since my goal was to leave the fair with a job in hand, I kept looking and finally found a school that seems like a perfect fit for my values and skills.
Jobs are still out there - see if you can get one of the recruiters on Skype to further discuss the position. However, don't get too down if you don't get an offer!
1. THERE ARE STILL MANY JOBS OUT THERE : I think that many believe that December - January is the only window to get a job. Although most of the highly lucrative / wonderful positions are snatched up on December - January period, there are still many positions that pop up throughout the year. For instance, you have to bank on the following :
a) " Cold feet " : Some who obtain positions at fairs during December - January often get other offers, or are lured by other offers or get cold feet as the date approaches. In fact, my FIRST international post was in Tokyo - Japan at a really good schools ( not the top, but one of the most reputable ones in the city ) bc someone decided to bail by July. Class started 3 weeks after I arrived in August.
b) Turn over with old staff : Some older staff tend to leave at the last minute too due to multiple reasons ( e.g. better offer that popped up so " late " in the game, had to go back home due to unforeseen circumstances etc etc )
c) Enrollment increase : Some schools did not foresee a slight increase or reshifting in classes. Perhaps, new more teachers are needed.
So, don't lose hope. However, you're probably wondering, " But I want A WONDERFUL POSITION that is snatched up in December and January! ". Unfortunately, for the most part in the international education sphere, most young / new teachers start off at international schools that may be less reputable or not as globally renowned. This is NOT necessarily such a bad thing...for you get to learn the ropes and then shine at the better schools in the future. In other words, " Shine like the big star in the little pond...so that the big fish in the big pond will take notice of you ". After all, as a new teacher, you would NOT want to fail or make mistakes at the bigger, more globally renowned schools. By then, you should be able to hold your own with the others who have had more experience, years, accolades etc under their belts. I was an anomaly. I started at a really good school and worked very hard to get the respect and notice that landed me a prime position at the best international school in Tokyo. But then again, I got that position over 7 years ago bc someone got cold feet and I happened to be noticed amongst the pool of young candidates ( due to specific criteria that most heads and directors who interview me, constantly mention or are fascinated about ), eagerly waiting for that one chance.
2. JOB FAIR " OFFERS " : Don't take the sweet words of " You're in the running " or " You're one of our strongest candidates " of a recruiter at the fair. Basically, if you feel that the recruiter sounds like a salesman who is trying to lather up your ego with sweet words ( but no paper to back it up ) then you can be sure that you're not " one of the strongest candidates ". If you were, then they would offer you a Letter of Offer to secure the spot asap.
Sometimes, even the " Letter of Offer " at job fairs is not enough. You have to secure a date / time on when the formal contract would be sent or delivered. You also have to make sure that the letter of offer has your name on it. There are two copies ( with your name ) written on it by the recruiter as they offer you the position. One copy for you and one copy for the recruiter. If they can't even provide a copy for you or bother to write your name down on the " Letter of Offer ", then that just shows how " sought after " you are to them.
3. LEARN TO DETERMINE THE " FALSE PROMISES " OF HIRING :
a) The recruiter sounds like a salesman.
b) During the interview, if the recruiter is giving you ALL signs that seem to suggest they want to hire you, then be politely direct with the question, " Are you formally offering me the position? ". If the answer is vague, then they are still fishing around. A simple affirmative of " Yes, here is the Letter of Offer " should be enough.
c) Vague answer to this particular question : " Do I have the qualities that your school is looking for and would consider as a prime candidate ? "
This is a question that usually throws them off. If they can answer that question WITHOUT sounding like a salesman trying to charm you, then you know that they are serious about hiring you. Often, when recruiters have made up their minds that you're not the candidate for them or if they are still unsure, they will try to find roundabout answers to get out of any sort of commitment.
c) Body language says it all :
- Shifty glances. They can't look at you in the eyes.
- Their upper body is a bit away from you. Distanced.
- Questions have stopped at the " getting to know you " part. Usually, the questions start with " So, tell me a little bit about you as an educator and some of your experiences ". This is where they get to feel how you are as a person. If you are interesting and they seem to like you, then they will continue on with the ACADEMIC questions ( what you can do, challenges, strengths, accolades etc ).
Personal experience at being interviewed at one international school ( Horrible reviews here ) :
The minute I walked in, the interviewers looked at me with clear, discernible disdain....especially the male interviewer. I realised then that it might have something to do with my physical appearance for it was the only school in a specific region that looked / treated me in such a disdainful way. In fact, the man didn't even bother to look at my resume as he was interviewing me...asked me one question...and said, " We will get back to you ". I was actually glad bc I received 4 better offers at that one fair...I rejected them all in the end of course, when the offer in Tokyo came through in July.
a) " Cold feet " : Some who obtain positions at fairs during December - January often get other offers, or are lured by other offers or get cold feet as the date approaches. In fact, my FIRST international post was in Tokyo - Japan at a really good schools ( not the top, but one of the most reputable ones in the city ) bc someone decided to bail by July. Class started 3 weeks after I arrived in August.
b) Turn over with old staff : Some older staff tend to leave at the last minute too due to multiple reasons ( e.g. better offer that popped up so " late " in the game, had to go back home due to unforeseen circumstances etc etc )
c) Enrollment increase : Some schools did not foresee a slight increase or reshifting in classes. Perhaps, new more teachers are needed.
So, don't lose hope. However, you're probably wondering, " But I want A WONDERFUL POSITION that is snatched up in December and January! ". Unfortunately, for the most part in the international education sphere, most young / new teachers start off at international schools that may be less reputable or not as globally renowned. This is NOT necessarily such a bad thing...for you get to learn the ropes and then shine at the better schools in the future. In other words, " Shine like the big star in the little pond...so that the big fish in the big pond will take notice of you ". After all, as a new teacher, you would NOT want to fail or make mistakes at the bigger, more globally renowned schools. By then, you should be able to hold your own with the others who have had more experience, years, accolades etc under their belts. I was an anomaly. I started at a really good school and worked very hard to get the respect and notice that landed me a prime position at the best international school in Tokyo. But then again, I got that position over 7 years ago bc someone got cold feet and I happened to be noticed amongst the pool of young candidates ( due to specific criteria that most heads and directors who interview me, constantly mention or are fascinated about ), eagerly waiting for that one chance.
2. JOB FAIR " OFFERS " : Don't take the sweet words of " You're in the running " or " You're one of our strongest candidates " of a recruiter at the fair. Basically, if you feel that the recruiter sounds like a salesman who is trying to lather up your ego with sweet words ( but no paper to back it up ) then you can be sure that you're not " one of the strongest candidates ". If you were, then they would offer you a Letter of Offer to secure the spot asap.
Sometimes, even the " Letter of Offer " at job fairs is not enough. You have to secure a date / time on when the formal contract would be sent or delivered. You also have to make sure that the letter of offer has your name on it. There are two copies ( with your name ) written on it by the recruiter as they offer you the position. One copy for you and one copy for the recruiter. If they can't even provide a copy for you or bother to write your name down on the " Letter of Offer ", then that just shows how " sought after " you are to them.
3. LEARN TO DETERMINE THE " FALSE PROMISES " OF HIRING :
a) The recruiter sounds like a salesman.
b) During the interview, if the recruiter is giving you ALL signs that seem to suggest they want to hire you, then be politely direct with the question, " Are you formally offering me the position? ". If the answer is vague, then they are still fishing around. A simple affirmative of " Yes, here is the Letter of Offer " should be enough.
c) Vague answer to this particular question : " Do I have the qualities that your school is looking for and would consider as a prime candidate ? "
This is a question that usually throws them off. If they can answer that question WITHOUT sounding like a salesman trying to charm you, then you know that they are serious about hiring you. Often, when recruiters have made up their minds that you're not the candidate for them or if they are still unsure, they will try to find roundabout answers to get out of any sort of commitment.
c) Body language says it all :
- Shifty glances. They can't look at you in the eyes.
- Their upper body is a bit away from you. Distanced.
- Questions have stopped at the " getting to know you " part. Usually, the questions start with " So, tell me a little bit about you as an educator and some of your experiences ". This is where they get to feel how you are as a person. If you are interesting and they seem to like you, then they will continue on with the ACADEMIC questions ( what you can do, challenges, strengths, accolades etc ).
Personal experience at being interviewed at one international school ( Horrible reviews here ) :
The minute I walked in, the interviewers looked at me with clear, discernible disdain....especially the male interviewer. I realised then that it might have something to do with my physical appearance for it was the only school in a specific region that looked / treated me in such a disdainful way. In fact, the man didn't even bother to look at my resume as he was interviewing me...asked me one question...and said, " We will get back to you ". I was actually glad bc I received 4 better offers at that one fair...I rejected them all in the end of course, when the offer in Tokyo came through in July.
Reply
The only thing that matters is a contract. Nothing else matters. Offer letters dont mean much either they can be revoked or withdrawn for a variety of reasons. Even then contracts mean very little until your plane lands. Contracts can be withdrawn, or cancelled, and there is very little you can do from the other side of the world. What really matters is money. When a school is spending money to bring you over thats when you can start feeling more secure. When they book your tickets and arrange your shipping allowance, when they pay your visas and document fees. Thats when a school is committed.
Recruiters have egos and they want to get the best person they can for a vacancy, they also dont want to be stuck in august with no one in the position, because they waited too long and everyone else moved on. the school that can keep you available without committing is doing whats in the interest of the school.
All the flattery, compliments, assurances and promises dont mean anything. If a school cant make you an offer they dont want you.
Recruiters have egos and they want to get the best person they can for a vacancy, they also dont want to be stuck in august with no one in the position, because they waited too long and everyone else moved on. the school that can keep you available without committing is doing whats in the interest of the school.
All the flattery, compliments, assurances and promises dont mean anything. If a school cant make you an offer they dont want you.