Yes, Kak
I totally agree with you.
Information Posted on this site should be truthful, helpful and as positive as possible. If a negative view is required, it should be done constructively as a way of helping others on this Forum.
Well said Kak, I am sure there are lots of people on here who agree with you too.
Lots of schools in Ho Chi Minh City!
I am sorry you find my truth about HCMC to be negative. It is only out of date by one year as that is when I left HCMC for a much better job in Africa.
I would advise anybody who cannot decide between what I have said and what KAK has said to refer to the search website for info about AIS where they give a very low wage scale and say that they only pay in Dong.
I can accept the possinility that the few teachers I have talked to from AIS were the only ones who were not happy there.
But the facts remain:-
AIS wages are lower than most in HCMC
They pay in DONG
Banks will not change Dong to Dollars, you have to go to money changers for that.
I would advise anybody who cannot decide between what I have said and what KAK has said to refer to the search website for info about AIS where they give a very low wage scale and say that they only pay in Dong.
I can accept the possinility that the few teachers I have talked to from AIS were the only ones who were not happy there.
But the facts remain:-
AIS wages are lower than most in HCMC
They pay in DONG
Banks will not change Dong to Dollars, you have to go to money changers for that.
I have just checked KAK's posting history.
Please save us from Americans who have never left the US, they ask for advice about schools all over the world then claim to have friends at the same schools who know more.
Then to cap it all they now claim that they have a job at DoDEA all along form early in the season.
I know that I come across as negative about schools in HCMC, that is because I have worked at 2 of them and was badly messed about by a third one.
Please save us from Americans who have never left the US, they ask for advice about schools all over the world then claim to have friends at the same schools who know more.
Then to cap it all they now claim that they have a job at DoDEA all along form early in the season.
I know that I come across as negative about schools in HCMC, that is because I have worked at 2 of them and was badly messed about by a third one.
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calciodirigore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm
- Location: Europe
Hello.
The Australian International School has recently merged with ACG. The new school will be called AIS.
They pay as much, if not more than most of the schools in the city. The package for Saigon is excellent and couples with quite a bit of experience regularly save around US$35,000 a year. Singles can save a good amount, too. Housing and flights all included.
Yes, next year salaries will be paid entirely in Dong. This is the case with most schools in Saigon as of next year (BIS started paying entirely in Dong this year - 2012-2013).
Although AIS is well respected and they have a good mix of western expats (almost exclusively in the primary - secondary is about 30% western expat and 70% Asian - mainly Vietnamese) it is going through rough times. It is very much a for profit school.
I am presently in Saigon and my information is current.
The Australian International School has recently merged with ACG. The new school will be called AIS.
They pay as much, if not more than most of the schools in the city. The package for Saigon is excellent and couples with quite a bit of experience regularly save around US$35,000 a year. Singles can save a good amount, too. Housing and flights all included.
Yes, next year salaries will be paid entirely in Dong. This is the case with most schools in Saigon as of next year (BIS started paying entirely in Dong this year - 2012-2013).
Although AIS is well respected and they have a good mix of western expats (almost exclusively in the primary - secondary is about 30% western expat and 70% Asian - mainly Vietnamese) it is going through rough times. It is very much a for profit school.
I am presently in Saigon and my information is current.
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BobbyBamboo
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:13 pm
[b]"AIS has one of the lowest packages in HCMC, many staff are earning less than 3000 USD per month"[/b]
Perhaps for staff at the lower end of the salary scale before benefits such as housing is added in, yes it would be just under $3000 (by a couple of hundred dollars), but once housing is added then that above statement is completely incorrect.
[b]"refer to the search website for info about AIS where they give a very low wage scale and say that they only pay in Dong"[/b]
The amounts listed on Search are after tax which is why AIS says 0% for tax, other schools such as SSIS and ISHMC list the salary as pre-tax.
[b]"AIS wages are lower than most in HCMC"[/b]
Incorrect. Once tax is taken out of the other salaries, the AIS package is much the same as schools such as SSIS, ISHMC.
[b]"They pay in DONG"[/b]
Currently incorrect. It's still majority USD and a smaller percentage VND. As of 2013-2014 it will be 100% VND, as will BIS and ISHMC, in fact I believe BIS started it this academic year.
[b]"Banks will not change Dong to Dollars, you have to go to money changers for that"[/b]
ANZ will transfer VND out of the country so long as there is proof via the deposits of where the VND came from.
[b]"They actually pay into both a Vietnam bank and Western bank per new Vietnam law. So transferring money out is set up for you at the western bank and very easy." [/b]
Perhaps this quote is referring to SSIS. Staff at AIS have ANZ bank accounts, one VND, one USD.
Perhaps for staff at the lower end of the salary scale before benefits such as housing is added in, yes it would be just under $3000 (by a couple of hundred dollars), but once housing is added then that above statement is completely incorrect.
[b]"refer to the search website for info about AIS where they give a very low wage scale and say that they only pay in Dong"[/b]
The amounts listed on Search are after tax which is why AIS says 0% for tax, other schools such as SSIS and ISHMC list the salary as pre-tax.
[b]"AIS wages are lower than most in HCMC"[/b]
Incorrect. Once tax is taken out of the other salaries, the AIS package is much the same as schools such as SSIS, ISHMC.
[b]"They pay in DONG"[/b]
Currently incorrect. It's still majority USD and a smaller percentage VND. As of 2013-2014 it will be 100% VND, as will BIS and ISHMC, in fact I believe BIS started it this academic year.
[b]"Banks will not change Dong to Dollars, you have to go to money changers for that"[/b]
ANZ will transfer VND out of the country so long as there is proof via the deposits of where the VND came from.
[b]"They actually pay into both a Vietnam bank and Western bank per new Vietnam law. So transferring money out is set up for you at the western bank and very easy." [/b]
Perhaps this quote is referring to SSIS. Staff at AIS have ANZ bank accounts, one VND, one USD.
Reply
This forum isnt about "constructive" critiicisim its about honest discussion. No one including Annie has to do so ina "constructive" way. Thats why neither I dont make anything up, and why my experiences concur with Annie's
I would agree with BIS being a tier 1 school in Vietnam and the best school in Saigon. I wouldnt put Pearl in the upper tiers, adn if you wait someone will say that ISHCMC's IB program is the best, but I wouldnt agree with that either.
Vietnam is starting point for teachers without experience or for teachers who are desperate.
@Kak
You werent offered a DoDEA position as a teacher, CONUS hiring hasnt been approved yet. We still have VERA and VSIP getting worked out. The only thing you could have been hired for at this stage is an admin position, which sounds like exactly who you are is an admin. How else would you have these salary schedules. Your just an admin cheerleading for a school.
Yes SAs pay scales have a degree of inaccuracy but that data is provided by the schools so they are either misrepresenting their own salary or they are lazy in keeping it updated. Either way its still salary data as reported by the schools, not SA.
44% Vietnames is not truly international. 4% Vietnamese and the rest asian and non asian and that would be international.
@BobbyBamboo
We dont add housing into salary, thats why its called a housing allowance and why a salary is called a salary.
AnnieT's refelection of the under $3000 salary is very accurate, especially considering that very few teachers stay very long and that experienced teachers who would be higher on the salary scale would never even consider AIS, as they have better schools to go to.
Who cares what currency they are paying it in NOW, its the end of April. The school years over (Exams and then done). Were talking about what its going to be next year, as thats the ACTUAL year people are getting hired for, and yeah int hat case its going to be 100% dong, which is about as good as monopoly money when you need to move it out of the country. Your argument is a distinction without a difference, had this conversation taken place in LAST august it would have some meaningful validity.
No they wont, ANZ will transfer money out of the country if you have receipts showing you converted outside currency into Dong you can convert it back, but thats it.
I would agree with BIS being a tier 1 school in Vietnam and the best school in Saigon. I wouldnt put Pearl in the upper tiers, adn if you wait someone will say that ISHCMC's IB program is the best, but I wouldnt agree with that either.
Vietnam is starting point for teachers without experience or for teachers who are desperate.
@Kak
You werent offered a DoDEA position as a teacher, CONUS hiring hasnt been approved yet. We still have VERA and VSIP getting worked out. The only thing you could have been hired for at this stage is an admin position, which sounds like exactly who you are is an admin. How else would you have these salary schedules. Your just an admin cheerleading for a school.
Yes SAs pay scales have a degree of inaccuracy but that data is provided by the schools so they are either misrepresenting their own salary or they are lazy in keeping it updated. Either way its still salary data as reported by the schools, not SA.
44% Vietnames is not truly international. 4% Vietnamese and the rest asian and non asian and that would be international.
@BobbyBamboo
We dont add housing into salary, thats why its called a housing allowance and why a salary is called a salary.
AnnieT's refelection of the under $3000 salary is very accurate, especially considering that very few teachers stay very long and that experienced teachers who would be higher on the salary scale would never even consider AIS, as they have better schools to go to.
Who cares what currency they are paying it in NOW, its the end of April. The school years over (Exams and then done). Were talking about what its going to be next year, as thats the ACTUAL year people are getting hired for, and yeah int hat case its going to be 100% dong, which is about as good as monopoly money when you need to move it out of the country. Your argument is a distinction without a difference, had this conversation taken place in LAST august it would have some meaningful validity.
No they wont, ANZ will transfer money out of the country if you have receipts showing you converted outside currency into Dong you can convert it back, but thats it.
I think that there might be some confusion over the fact that there are two schools called AIS. One is the American International School and the other is the Australian International School. AnnieT seems to be referring to the American one while most everyone else is discussing the Australian one.
Also, PsyGuy, I am curious as to why you think that BIS is a tier 1 school?
Also, PsyGuy, I am curious as to why you think that BIS is a tier 1 school?
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calciodirigore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm
- Location: Europe
Yes, good point. There are two AIS's in town: the Australian International School (the one I wrote about) and the American International School. The latter is the low paying one. Teachers were also paid 10 days late last month. The school is falling apart (American IS).
BIS is tier one for Saigon (not even Vietnam if you compare it to UNIS Hanoi). They are pretty well established/organized, run quite a few quality programmes, have decent DP scores and have a balanced student population.
They are very much for profit and so can't really qualify as a tier one school globally speaking. The tier system is subjective at the best of times. However, I do feel that if there was one criterion that a school would have to meet it would be whether it's non-profit or not.
BIS is tier one for Saigon (not even Vietnam if you compare it to UNIS Hanoi). They are pretty well established/organized, run quite a few quality programmes, have decent DP scores and have a balanced student population.
They are very much for profit and so can't really qualify as a tier one school globally speaking. The tier system is subjective at the best of times. However, I do feel that if there was one criterion that a school would have to meet it would be whether it's non-profit or not.
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higgsboson
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:13 am
Whenever I see "American International School - HCMC" I see red! Its the WORST school in the world. Its been "falling apart" since it opened. I really do my best to let go of resentments, but AIS (the American one) is one resentment I'll hold onto for a bit longer.
Not only will they terminate your contract on a whim, they'll (try) and hold every penny they owe you. Avoid American IS like the plague. I don't know anything about Australian IS but I'm guessing part of the problem is labor law in Vietnam. I think Vietnam is like the worst kind of "right to work" state. Basically, at least my experience was, the owners can do whatever they like to the employees and the employees are powerless.
HCMC though was excellent. I going to spend part of Chinese New Year next year in HCMC. I'm taking a long train ride from Beijing to Nanning and cross into Vietnam there and through HCMC into Cambodia and then Thailand. I can't wait!
Not only will they terminate your contract on a whim, they'll (try) and hold every penny they owe you. Avoid American IS like the plague. I don't know anything about Australian IS but I'm guessing part of the problem is labor law in Vietnam. I think Vietnam is like the worst kind of "right to work" state. Basically, at least my experience was, the owners can do whatever they like to the employees and the employees are powerless.
HCMC though was excellent. I going to spend part of Chinese New Year next year in HCMC. I'm taking a long train ride from Beijing to Nanning and cross into Vietnam there and through HCMC into Cambodia and then Thailand. I can't wait!
First I will deal with the 2 AIS question. I know that there are 2 AIS schools in HCMC. The American one is a total joke, almost as bad as RISS.
I was talking about the Australian one in my earlier posts. They have been paying some staff in Dong for the last year, next year all staff will be paid in Dong. The staff I knew well were in Secondary and were very unhappy there.
The school that pays the highest salary, in my experience, is BIS which has also moved to paying 100% in Dong. RISS often say they will pay similar wages to BIS, but will find ways to break promises.
I spent many years in HCMC<, I speak from experience mixed with hearsay from the various other teachers who I know and trust from other schools in the city.
I recall a conversation I had with a new teacher at the Canadian school, after listening to haw fantastic the place was for over an hour, she told me that if she got the promotion she would be earning over $2000 a month neat year!!!
I was talking about the Australian one in my earlier posts. They have been paying some staff in Dong for the last year, next year all staff will be paid in Dong. The staff I knew well were in Secondary and were very unhappy there.
The school that pays the highest salary, in my experience, is BIS which has also moved to paying 100% in Dong. RISS often say they will pay similar wages to BIS, but will find ways to break promises.
I spent many years in HCMC<, I speak from experience mixed with hearsay from the various other teachers who I know and trust from other schools in the city.
I recall a conversation I had with a new teacher at the Canadian school, after listening to haw fantastic the place was for over an hour, she told me that if she got the promotion she would be earning over $2000 a month neat year!!!
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calciodirigore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm
- Location: Europe
Yes, the Australian International School teachers get paid a percentage in Dong this year. And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, will be paid entirely in Dong next year.
There are many teachers that are unhappy in Saigon. I can guarantee you though, that none of the AIS teachers are unhappy with their package. It is excellent for Saigon and the region in general.
Saigon South is the highest paying school in town.
BIS tends to hire younger teachers straight out of the UK who are way down the pay scale. This information comes directly from their deputy head. Like I said, totally for profit...
There are many teachers that are unhappy in Saigon. I can guarantee you though, that none of the AIS teachers are unhappy with their package. It is excellent for Saigon and the region in general.
Saigon South is the highest paying school in town.
BIS tends to hire younger teachers straight out of the UK who are way down the pay scale. This information comes directly from their deputy head. Like I said, totally for profit...
PGuy
"Vietnam is starting point for teachers without experience or for teachers who are desperate."
Really, you are not very in touch with what is going on. There are many teachers at SSIS THAT LEFT Tier 1 schools and are now happily working at SSIS. Places such as ISB and ISS. they came with IB experience too. Hardly just a starting place for desperate teachers lacking IS experience. I find your posts to be inflammatory at best.
"Vietnam is starting point for teachers without experience or for teachers who are desperate."
Really, you are not very in touch with what is going on. There are many teachers at SSIS THAT LEFT Tier 1 schools and are now happily working at SSIS. Places such as ISB and ISS. they came with IB experience too. Hardly just a starting place for desperate teachers lacking IS experience. I find your posts to be inflammatory at best.
Comment
@SKMNVMAH
Tier status is only valid and useful in comparing schools in a particular region. You cant compare a 1st tier school in Saigon to a 1st tier school in London. This is partially why we further divide 1st tier school into elite/premier schools. Once you hit the level of being a "world class" school, its much more useful and meaningful being able to compare a school like ISB (Bangkok) to ASL (London), and being comfortable in defending the position that even being different they are in the same tier/class of school.
In the barrel of apples that is Saigon, BIS is a superior school given the competition and quality of other schools in Saigon.
@Teal
I find your post disingenuous. I dont by it, noones leaving ISB (Bangkok) for South. Maybe one person "had" to leave for some reason, but no its BS that Souths package and school experience competes even closely with ISBs.
How would you know though? Did your school (I assume its yours) have a magic circle and shared their past backfground with all there fellow teachers. Im thinking the only educators that would have access tot hat kind of information would be admins. An admin who is just trying to sell their school.
Tier status is only valid and useful in comparing schools in a particular region. You cant compare a 1st tier school in Saigon to a 1st tier school in London. This is partially why we further divide 1st tier school into elite/premier schools. Once you hit the level of being a "world class" school, its much more useful and meaningful being able to compare a school like ISB (Bangkok) to ASL (London), and being comfortable in defending the position that even being different they are in the same tier/class of school.
In the barrel of apples that is Saigon, BIS is a superior school given the competition and quality of other schools in Saigon.
@Teal
I find your post disingenuous. I dont by it, noones leaving ISB (Bangkok) for South. Maybe one person "had" to leave for some reason, but no its BS that Souths package and school experience competes even closely with ISBs.
How would you know though? Did your school (I assume its yours) have a magic circle and shared their past backfground with all there fellow teachers. Im thinking the only educators that would have access tot hat kind of information would be admins. An admin who is just trying to sell their school.