UK SLC Repayments - Default Amount by Choice?

Bossman187uk
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:07 pm

UK SLC Repayments - Default Amount by Choice?

Post by Bossman187uk »

I hope you don't mind me posting a quick question regarding Student Loan Company repayments from abroad.

The country I will be moving to is stated as having a default repayment amount of £147.50 a month. When does the SLC allocate this default figure to someone? Can you just ask to be put on it or is it only for people who make no contact and are backlogged with the default amount?

Is it possible to have a mutual agreement with the SLC to pay the default andmeveryone is happy?

Thanks
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

The default payment is an amortization of payments over a fixed time period for those who are actually in default of their SLC loan.

Yes, you can ask.

Yes, you can propose a payment schedule and they can accept it. You will be happy, but bankers are seldom happy for any reason.

If your going to another country though why would you repay your loans? Just tell them your unemployed and have no money. There will be no documentation to suggest otherwise.
Walter
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A Man of Honour speaks:

Post by Walter »

"If your going to another country though why would you repay your loans? Just tell them your unemployed and have no money. There will be no documentation to suggest otherwise."
higgsboson
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Don't Pay!

Post by higgsboson »

I agree with Psyguy - don't repay the loans if you are overseas. I got my BS, MS and PhD and owe like US$150,000. Why would I repay that when I can spend my career overseas?

My feeling is, if taxpayers can bail out Wall Street, they can sure as hell bail me out.
asjwr19
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Re: Reply

Post by asjwr19 »

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Last edited by asjwr19 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Nemo.
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:04 am

Re: Reply

Post by Nemo. »

[quote="PsyGuy"]The default payment is an amortization of payments over a fixed time period for those who are actually in default of their SLC loan.

Yes, you can ask.

Yes, you can propose a payment schedule and they can accept it. You will be happy, but bankers are seldom happy for any reason.

If your going to another country though why would you repay your loans? Just tell them your unemployed and have no money. There will be no documentation to suggest otherwise.[/quote]

That is called financial fraud!
Rhysboy

Re: UK SLC Repayments - Default Amount by Choice?

Post by Rhysboy »

[quote="Bossman187uk"]I hope you don't mind me posting a quick question regarding Student Loan Company repayments from abroad.

The country I will be moving to is stated as having a default repayment amount of £147.50 a month. When does the SLC allocate this default figure to someone? Can you just ask to be put on it or is it only for people who make no contact and are backlogged with the default amount?

Is it possible to have a mutual agreement with the SLC to pay the default andmeveryone is happy?

Thanks[/quote]

The reason they are charging you 147.50 a month is because you probably haven`t told them what you doing, if you earning/how much, etc.
Call them up and explain your situation and they will probably come to an arrangement. The same thing happened to me a while back. Don`t leave it too long or they will start adding all kinds of fees and charges to your loan.
Mathman
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:18 am

Post by Mathman »

I agree with Higgsboson.

Governments are happy to bail out financial fraudsters that send them bribes, so why not teachers that have been shafted financially for years. The only real fraud is by paying your taxes on your full income and not deducting the hell out of it with 'related' expenses.

Money is not real anyway.
Mathman
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:18 am

Post by Mathman »

You can continue paying your loan. I will continue buying property without a mortgage.

I'm happy, you're happy, great.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@asjwr19

Well theres "have to" as in someone has a gun to your head and then theres "have to" as in a piece of paper in a really large document states in concept and therory that you have to file regardless of your tax liability. Those are different types of "have to".
Yes if you ask the IRS you have to file, but most ITs who dont owe any taxes and dont have a further compelling reason to file if they fall under the foreign tax credit just dont bother with it. This has happened a lot more recently, specifically with couples where one is american and the "new" spouse is not, the american spouse has to list ALL of their non american spouses financial information. While your required to pay taxes lawfully due on all your world wide income, there isnt really a penalty for not just not filing.

The practicle side of this is that most countries and overseas organizations (schools) just dont provide the US IRS with information about your income. So there isnt a trail of documentation to track down, and this is true in the UK as well. If a British/American teacher goes to Thailand to teach the Thai ministry isnt going to communicate any of your earning and income to the respective governments. Whether taxes or school loans you only make as much as you tell them, and if you dont tell them then there is nothing to say your not sitting on a beach drinking rum and coke in a hammock.
If you did come to a point where you needed to say you are working just tell them your a poor ELL teacher making 20K Baht a month, and you barely get by. It would be below both the income threshold for both taxes and student loans.
This is the first time ive ever paid taxes in a decade working overseas, but thats only because as a DoDDS teacher i work for and am paid by the US government so they know how much I make.

@Nemo

No its not financial fraud, I dont have a a fiduciary responsibility so it would be just 'regular' fraud. It wouldnt even be fraud because the definition of that is acquiring or obtaining by deception cash, goods, or services. I havent acquired anything in this case. In reality at worst its perjury, and thats ONLY if you submit one of those forms that contain the oath that you swear the information you supply is true to the best of your knowledge, etc". Which is why I never use one of those forms and use only letters. Which is perfectly legal and acceptable. So at the end of the day its just lying which by itself is not illegal.

@Pippafrit

I think people should honor there financial obligations as well. So when all the bankers, and insurance companies, and brokerage houses and big corporations do the same, i may follow.
escapeartist
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:39 pm

Post by escapeartist »

There must be implications for not making payments, though, right? Assuming that you do return to your home country. Loans in default? Higher payments? Etc.
wrldtrvlr123
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Location: Japan

Re: Reply

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

[quote="PsyGuy"]@asjwr19

Well theres "have to" as in someone has a gun to your head and then theres "have to" as in a piece of paper in a really large document states in concept and therory that you have to file regardless of your tax liability. Those are different types of "have to".
Yes if you ask the IRS you have to file, but most ITs who dont owe any taxes and dont have a further compelling reason to file if they fall under the foreign tax credit just dont bother with it. This has happened a lot more recently, specifically with couples where one is american and the "new" spouse is not, the american spouse has to list ALL of their non american spouses financial information. While your required to pay taxes lawfully due on all your world wide income, there isnt really a penalty for not just not filing.
--------------------------------
Actually, there is a penalty for not filing. It's called, wait for it,
the failure-to-file penalty.

Now, the failure-to-file penalty is tied in to a percentage of unpaid taxes, so it may or may not end up being a lot of money. On the other hand, you only qualify for the foreign income exclusion if you apply for it and "prove" how/why you qualify for it, every year.

If you don't do that, technically you owe tax on the income you bring in overseas. Also, if you do not file for yourself, the IRS can file for you and assign you income based on past returns, and decide how much in taxes you owe based on their calculations, which will never be to your advantage.

The bottom line is that there are many more reasons to file than not file, especially if you will not owe any taxes. It's cheap and easy with TurboTax or similar and much better/smarter in the long run.

My experience is different in that I don't know of any IS teachers that don't file (then again, I've never really asked too many about it).
BookshelfAmy
Posts: 120
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Post by BookshelfAmy »

[quote="escapeartist"]There must be implications for not making payments, though, right? Assuming that you do return to your home country. Loans in default? Higher payments? Etc.[/quote]

There are definitely implications for US citizens. Here's a list of possible consequences if you live in the country: http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/de ... at-are-the

At least 19 states can refuse to renew your teaching certificate if you default: http://www.studentloanborrowerassistanc ... vocations/

I just renewed my cert and had to answer a question about my loans. Some employers do a credit check alongside the background check, and I assume they would hesitate to hire someone who's defaulted. Also, it's worth mentioning that defaulting on a loan you obtained while a minor can hurt your co-signer.

Finally, I don't know if this guy is reliable, but here's a thorough post on the subject of defaulting while abroad: http://www.justanswer.com/law/2ad4t-wor ... -face.html

Some relevant quotes: "The creditor may also bring Fraud charges against you, alleging that you never intended to pay off the debt, and that could lead to criminal charges. In terms of what can be done to you in the other country, it depends on the country and treaties that it has with the US, and if it allows courts of the US to reach any assets that you have in that country, and so on...
You cannot have a passport denied or revoked because of defaulted student loans, although you could have it denied based on unpaid child support (not applicable here, but interesting nonetheless). Now it might be that a judgment brought against you in a foreign country and/or credit scores can affect whether or not you can get a renewal or extension on your visa and ability to stay abroad. Again, this is country specific and you would want to talk to an attorney in the country that you are living.
In terms of what you can expect when you come back, you can be sued [...]. You are still going to be liable on the debt, and Stafford loans are not dischargable and Perkins loans rarely are in bankruptcy."

His conclusion: "If you make it clear that you are not trying to shirk your responsibility, and truly want to meet them in the middle, then they are more likely to work with you. Believe me, you would rather maintain your good credit now than go into default and spend years trying to get back to the same level of credit."


Ahem... I am not even close to being a legal or financial expert. Just an American librarian with a big pile of student loans.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@wrldtrvlr123

Thats why my example of technical and practical. So technically there is a penalty, but if i owe zero taxes then any percentage of zero, is (drum roll): zero. Thats not anywhere near a lot of money, its "no" money.

Yes technically again you owe taxes on your world wide income, but practically that amount is whatever I say it is, if i even acknowledge im working. The IRS isnt getting a W-2 from my IS.

There may be many more reasons for you to file but avoiding student loans is one of those reasons. Its not smarter if you want to avoid bill collectors. I use to give them my international number thinking they would never pay the per minute charge to call internationally about 3 years ago it was no longer an issue with them. You think i want a student loan collector calling my HOS?

I have a coworker here who married a local and its causing a lot of tension for the newlyweds, because she doesnt want to gice uncle sam all her personal financial information. Cant blame her, shes not a citizen, why should she tell them anything, its none of their business.

@BookshelfAmy

Your source has a "limited" view of the scenario. Their position is entirely domestic (and for the record his long post was only half as long as it needed to be because the posted the same information twice). Lets look at them though one by one (for illustrative purposes lets use the $150K loan mathman reported. $150K is about the limit on combined sub/unsub federal loans):

1)Your loans may be turned over to a collection agency.

So what? If im in another country and they dont have my contact information, the problem just vanished. Colection agencies cant do anything more then report to a credit bureau and harrass you.

2)You'll be liable for the costs associated with collecting your loan, including court costs and attorney fees.

If Im not going to pay at $150K, you think making it a $175K, or $200K is going to change my mind. The balance only means anything if it represents ACTUAL not potential money leaving my account.

3) You can be sued for the entire amount of your loan.

Sueing doesnt mean anything. They have to win, which is very likely, but a judgment is just a piece of paper. You have to turn it into real money, which gives you the exact same recourses for the lender as before the lawsuit. The lendor still has to collect, which means bank levy, and wage garnishment. These were tools the lendor had BEFORE the lawsuit, and none of them are effective pass US borders or outside being employed by a US company or agency.

4) Your wages may be garnished. (Federal law limits the amount that may be garnished to 15% of the borrower's take-home or 'disposable' pay. This is the amount of income left after deducting any amounts required by law to be deducted.)

AWG or Administrative Wage Garnishment is only effective in US jurisdictions. Its not even a law. The lendor or DOE sends a notice to your employer (this is assuming your in the US), they say wed like you to send 15% of this employees pay to cover student loans, will you do that. The employer can actually say "no" in which case DOE has to then decide whether to sue the employer and get a court order. Civil suits in the US are not enforcable outside the US except in EXTREAMLY limited cases, such as suits brought against terrorists in US courts and then the court is limited only to those financial assetts that can be seized in the US.

5) Your federal and state income tax refunds may be intercepted.

Even if you file your taxes, your not going to be eligible or actually recieve any kind of refund. You cant claim the earned income credit if you claim the foreign tax credit, and stimulus credits in the past were not available to those residing out of country.

6) The federal government may withhold part of your Social Security benefit payments.

This si the only one that could be a concern, but the vast majority of ITs are not contributing to social security and career ITs will not likely have enough recent credits to collect social security. The majority of them relying on a pension from their current teaching country or their own investments.

7) Your defaulted loans will appear on your credit record, making it difficult for you to obtain an auto loan, mortgage, or even credit cards. A bad credit record can also harm your ability to find a job.

The vast majority of ISs dont check credit scores, I only know of that happening with senior/executive admins or those in financial staff support positions. Your social security number and credit history stops at the US border. I knwo schools and banks with teachers with horrible credit who when they got to their new school were approved after a short time for 10K USD credit limits, just because they had the income and worked at a "good" school.

8) You won't receive any more federal financial aid until you repay the loan in full or make arrangements to repay what you already owe and make at least six consecutive, on-time, monthly payments. (You will also be ineligible for assistance under most federal benefit programs.)

In our example of $150K weve already maxed out our loan eligibility, so there isnt anymore to borrow.

9) You'll be ineligible for deferments.

If im not paying, thats pretty much a "how ever long i want" deferment.

10) Subsidized interest benefits will be denied.

So what? Again not relevant if im not paying. This only matters if you ACTUALLY pay. If your not going to pay $150K, and they add interest a number on a bill just gets bigger.

11) You may not be able to renew a professional license you hold.

This is the only real problem but you provided its effective in 19 states, which means there are 31 its not, and a IT only needs to be certified in one state. park your certificate in one of those states, or like i did move your certificate every 5 years or whenever its up to renewal. Most of these states have renewal restrictions but not initial certification restrictions. Even with the costs its still MUCH cheaper then even one single month payment on your student loans.

12) You may be prohibited from enlisting in the Armed Forces.

Not really an issue for most teachers, its usually troops to teachers not the other way around. It didnt stop me from working with DoDDS, so not a problem.

Ok lets get to your other issues. According to westlaw, there has not been a SINGLE case of a borrower arrested and charged with fraud that didnt actually entail some form of identity fraud (someone used another persons identity to get student loans). Not a single case of a student gettinga loan graduating and then being prosecuted. the USA cant even prosecute wall street brokers who embezzled BILLIONS where the time between cause and effect was months. How would a prosecutor prove INTENT 4 or 5 years between first enrolling and graduating? Do you know how hard those cases are to prove?

Ok so this is the point that your source is vague and fuzzy on, they are not an international lawyer. When it comes to civial actions in tort cases (thats what this is0 US jurisdiction ends at the US border. The worst (as your source described) is child support and the best the US government can do is deny the renewal of your passport, they can cancel or invalidate it if you currently have one. With student loans their is almost no recourse in other countries. The exception to this is the few schools that are US organizations, especially when those organizations have offices in the US and use US financial institutions.

About the scariest thing that would EVER happen is your back in the states, and a lendor finds out and get s a judge to issue a warrant and you get arrested and made to appear and answer why you havent paid. Realistically though that doesnt happen. Lendors and servicers dont move that fast, when dealing with mobile debtors. Your only in a specific location for a limited amount of time.
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