My goal is to teach internationally, this is not a question.
I am receiving various opinions from college advisors and such about what I should or should not do.
Example: I am being told that it would be much better to major in a content area such as a B.A. in Politics instead of a B.A. in secondary education - social studies. This option would give me more of a competetive edge than just having an education degree.
But the conflict here is that I DO want to teach and if I understand how the system works, that would place me with having to do one of the alternative programs that are offered in order to then go back and get my education classes and get certified to teach.
One of the admissions counselors keep telling me that you do not necessarily have to be certified to teach abroad, she has friends that taught in Ecuador and had never taken education classes, etc.
Well, I mentioned to her that in all of my research I had done that you in fact DO need to be a certified teacher and not just have a degree in a conent area. Can someone re-affirm this for me?
You can't just have a degree in a conent area and teach abroad can you?
So knowing that I would like to teach abroad, would you go for the B.A. in secondary education - social studies or go for the B.A. in Politics and then do the alternative program for education certification?
It just seems that people are placing more "value" on the content area degree than the education degree.
B.A. in content area or education degree?
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Why would you do a BA in POLITICS to teach Social Studies. Sorry - a BA in History with a minor in English or Geography would be the one I would suggest.
Better yet, do a BSc in Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, or Physics and then a teaching license or BEd degree - and then get out there and put it to use!
Better yet, do a BSc in Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, or Physics and then a teaching license or BEd degree - and then get out there and put it to use!
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
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upintheair
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:10 am
Your admission counselor has no clue about teaching abroad!
Take advice from those of us teaching abroad--if you want to break into the good international schools, you need a degree in education, which leads to a teaching certification.
Look--if you really want to teach--why would you major in one thing and then go through the alternative certification? That is at least two years of extra coursework--and you are basically (at least, in my licensure state) repeating the last two years of college.
Some Tier 1 schools snub their noses at candidates who have alternative licensure. A degree in education is a make or break for the ultra, ultra competitive.
Your admissions counselor may know people who taught abroad--perhaps ESL in a language school (that's a tougher life than international school) or a local Ecuadorian school. Anyone with a degree can do that (you probably don't even need the degree). His/her friends were certainly not at Academic Cotopaxi, the US State Department school in Quito.
Take advice from those of us teaching abroad--if you want to break into the good international schools, you need a degree in education, which leads to a teaching certification.
Look--if you really want to teach--why would you major in one thing and then go through the alternative certification? That is at least two years of extra coursework--and you are basically (at least, in my licensure state) repeating the last two years of college.
Some Tier 1 schools snub their noses at candidates who have alternative licensure. A degree in education is a make or break for the ultra, ultra competitive.
Your admissions counselor may know people who taught abroad--perhaps ESL in a language school (that's a tougher life than international school) or a local Ecuadorian school. Anyone with a degree can do that (you probably don't even need the degree). His/her friends were certainly not at Academic Cotopaxi, the US State Department school in Quito.
[quote="shadowjack"]
Better yet, do a BSc in Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, or Physics and then a teaching license or BEd degree - and then get out there and put it to use![/quote]
Unfortunately when God was dispensing gifts for math, he skipped over me. Math is not my forte.
Although I do enjoy biology, all of my classes have been geared working towards a B.A., not a B.S.
To change that now would require starting over in many areas. :(
While I know that math and the subjects you mentioned are much more in demand than history , politics, etc, I do believe that we should also work in subjects that we enjoy too.
Better yet, do a BSc in Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, or Physics and then a teaching license or BEd degree - and then get out there and put it to use![/quote]
Unfortunately when God was dispensing gifts for math, he skipped over me. Math is not my forte.
Although I do enjoy biology, all of my classes have been geared working towards a B.A., not a B.S.
To change that now would require starting over in many areas. :(
While I know that math and the subjects you mentioned are much more in demand than history , politics, etc, I do believe that we should also work in subjects that we enjoy too.
[quote="upintheair"]Your admission counselor has no clue about teaching abroad!
Take advice from those of us teaching abroad--if you want to break into the good international schools, you need a degree in education, which leads to a teaching certification.
Look--if you really want to teach--why would you major in one thing and then go through the alternative certification? That is at least two years of extra coursework--and you are basically (at least, in my licensure state) repeating the last two years of college.
Some Tier 1 schools snub their noses at candidates who have alternative licensure. A degree in education is a make or break for the ultra, ultra competitive.
Your admissions counselor may know people who taught abroad--perhaps ESL in a language school (that's a tougher life than international school) or a local Ecuadorian school. Anyone with a degree can do that (you probably don't even need the degree). His/her friends were certainly not at Academic Cotopaxi, the US State Department school in Quito.[/quote]
Yes, I figured as such when she mentioned an education degree being required but didn't want to tell her she was wrong, I just bit my tongue because I knew but thank you for reaffirming that I was in fact right. Like you said, her friends may have taught in some lower schools or ESL but that is not my goal.
You are right, it is just a conflict arising inside of me because I have love for both, politics and teaching, but I must ultimately make a decision.
Take advice from those of us teaching abroad--if you want to break into the good international schools, you need a degree in education, which leads to a teaching certification.
Look--if you really want to teach--why would you major in one thing and then go through the alternative certification? That is at least two years of extra coursework--and you are basically (at least, in my licensure state) repeating the last two years of college.
Some Tier 1 schools snub their noses at candidates who have alternative licensure. A degree in education is a make or break for the ultra, ultra competitive.
Your admissions counselor may know people who taught abroad--perhaps ESL in a language school (that's a tougher life than international school) or a local Ecuadorian school. Anyone with a degree can do that (you probably don't even need the degree). His/her friends were certainly not at Academic Cotopaxi, the US State Department school in Quito.[/quote]
Yes, I figured as such when she mentioned an education degree being required but didn't want to tell her she was wrong, I just bit my tongue because I knew but thank you for reaffirming that I was in fact right. Like you said, her friends may have taught in some lower schools or ESL but that is not my goal.
You are right, it is just a conflict arising inside of me because I have love for both, politics and teaching, but I must ultimately make a decision.
Hmm, I'm not sure I agree w going for the Ed degree over the major in content area. In fact, for social studies, which is what we're discussing, at my university, that was the only way to become a ms/ hs social studies teacher: degree in content area--usually history--then get your Ed certificate along side it. I got all this done in four years, w a couple summer sessions.
This is not a particularly nice thing to say, and I know this isn't always true, but I know that, beyond elementary school, there was some bias against those w Ed degrees vs. content areas. The bias being that undergrad Ed coursework is easier than undergrad history or a science, for example, and so that was considered a less rigorous path, drawing less serious students, and so on.
God, that's mean to say. Sorry!
This is not a particularly nice thing to say, and I know this isn't always true, but I know that, beyond elementary school, there was some bias against those w Ed degrees vs. content areas. The bias being that undergrad Ed coursework is easier than undergrad history or a science, for example, and so that was considered a less rigorous path, drawing less serious students, and so on.
God, that's mean to say. Sorry!
Have you ever taught before? There are tons of people who like the idea of teaching, but once they get in a classroom they realize it was a mistake. I'd say generally speaking, your content degree would be more versatile than education.
Why not major in your content area and minor in secondary education? Is that not an option at your school?
Why not major in your content area and minor in secondary education? Is that not an option at your school?
Trojan,
I have received the same "advice" and/or feelings from others as well when this topic was discussed.
I do not want to waste more time and money pursing the alternative route so I don't really see any other option other than to proceed the education degree route though.
Although when it comes to a masters degree, do international schools prefer a masters in education vs a masters in a content area?
I have received the same "advice" and/or feelings from others as well when this topic was discussed.
I do not want to waste more time and money pursing the alternative route so I don't really see any other option other than to proceed the education degree route though.
Although when it comes to a masters degree, do international schools prefer a masters in education vs a masters in a content area?
I would put it this way, International university teaching is much more lucrative and they putmsubject mastery over the education degree. The education degree is a bonus, makes your job easier and you get a pay bump.
If you are actually talented in your field, why not go for it.
I also disagree with the assessment that top schoolsmdon't value subject mastery. Sure the education component must be satisfied and you must be certified, but subject mastery will put you ahead of other candidates with just a BEd, regardless of experience.
If you are actually talented in your field, why not go for it.
I also disagree with the assessment that top schoolsmdon't value subject mastery. Sure the education component must be satisfied and you must be certified, but subject mastery will put you ahead of other candidates with just a BEd, regardless of experience.
I just spoke with one of the deans in the education department at the college where I will be attending and posed my questions to him.
This is what he stated being that I do have a greater interest in political science than history, I could major in political science with content area certification in social studies and minor in secondary education. He stated that the history and politics department are combined there and many of the classes can cross reference for either subject. As long as the requirements for the content area are met, it should not be a problem.
This would put me graduating with a B.A. in political science, content certification in social studies with a minor in secondary education.
Although I know many schools put emphasis on history in social studies, I would not mind teaching other areas as well such as economics and/or american government if those areas are offered. One aspect I enjoy about social studies is that it is a broad subject area so you are not pigeon holed in one particular subject.
As I mentioned before, if I were gifted at math I would most certainly go for math but I am not. And all of my classes and path have been tailored towards the liberal arts and not the sciences or I would go for a biology content degree. Of course I could always go back and pursue a B.S. in biology as well so all is not lost. I just plan on making myself as qualified and as attractive a social studies teacher candidate as I can.
This is what he stated being that I do have a greater interest in political science than history, I could major in political science with content area certification in social studies and minor in secondary education. He stated that the history and politics department are combined there and many of the classes can cross reference for either subject. As long as the requirements for the content area are met, it should not be a problem.
This would put me graduating with a B.A. in political science, content certification in social studies with a minor in secondary education.
Although I know many schools put emphasis on history in social studies, I would not mind teaching other areas as well such as economics and/or american government if those areas are offered. One aspect I enjoy about social studies is that it is a broad subject area so you are not pigeon holed in one particular subject.
As I mentioned before, if I were gifted at math I would most certainly go for math but I am not. And all of my classes and path have been tailored towards the liberal arts and not the sciences or I would go for a biology content degree. Of course I could always go back and pursue a B.S. in biology as well so all is not lost. I just plan on making myself as qualified and as attractive a social studies teacher candidate as I can.
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jstwatchin
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:27 pm
States where there is no undergrade degree in education??
[quote="Shay"][quote="upintheair"]
Take advice from those of us teaching abroad--if you want to break into the good international schools, you need a degree in education, which leads to a teaching certification.
Look--if you really want to teach--why would you major in one thing and then go through the alternative certification? That is at least two years of extra coursework--and you are basically (at least, in my licensure state) repeating the last two years of college.
Some Tier 1 schools snub their noses at candidates who have alternative licensure. A degree in education is a make or break for the ultra, ultra competitive.
[/quote]
It may just be my inexperience with international education speaking - but the above comment scares me!
Here in California, where I obtained my certification, there is no such animal as a BA in education. You must first obtain your BA in something (could be liberal arts if you want to be an elementary teacher), but the official education coursework can ONLY be done as a post-baccalaureate program (5th year undergraduate or graduate). Nowadays, many credentialing programs also automatically lead to a master's degree.
I'm not sure how aware international schools are of this - would that be held against a candidate as it may be interpreted as alternative certification?
Take advice from those of us teaching abroad--if you want to break into the good international schools, you need a degree in education, which leads to a teaching certification.
Look--if you really want to teach--why would you major in one thing and then go through the alternative certification? That is at least two years of extra coursework--and you are basically (at least, in my licensure state) repeating the last two years of college.
Some Tier 1 schools snub their noses at candidates who have alternative licensure. A degree in education is a make or break for the ultra, ultra competitive.
[/quote]
It may just be my inexperience with international education speaking - but the above comment scares me!
Here in California, where I obtained my certification, there is no such animal as a BA in education. You must first obtain your BA in something (could be liberal arts if you want to be an elementary teacher), but the official education coursework can ONLY be done as a post-baccalaureate program (5th year undergraduate or graduate). Nowadays, many credentialing programs also automatically lead to a master's degree.
I'm not sure how aware international schools are of this - would that be held against a candidate as it may be interpreted as alternative certification?
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Shay,
so you do your BA in Political Science with content area certification in Social Studies and a minor in secondary education. You come out of school. First step, get your two years teaching experience before going overseas. You can get a job overseas without it, but they are not necessarily the kind of schools you would want to teach at. The good schools will not give you the time of day except to tell you that you "don't meet their needs at this time." After that, you start looking overseas. Then you run into the "competition" - people with history degrees and certification. People with a B.Ed and a double major in History and English (or Socials and PE, a deadly duo!).
IMHO, a degree in political science is not the best degree to base your teaching career on. You will have so many gaps compared to a teacher with a BA in History (who might still have gaps, but that's not the point). If I were a recruiter, I would look at your degree (transcripts are not going to be examined too much at this stage) and then look at someones BA History degree, and automatically gravitate to the latter over you. I might consider you for economics, but honestly, I would put you in my second rank for socials/history, simply because there will be people out there with better backgrounds.
Now, if you taught at home for longer, or there were something else about you (coaching, other skills that my school could use), I might bump you up in my rankings.
Walter? Sid? Anybody else on the other end who can speak to this?
so you do your BA in Political Science with content area certification in Social Studies and a minor in secondary education. You come out of school. First step, get your two years teaching experience before going overseas. You can get a job overseas without it, but they are not necessarily the kind of schools you would want to teach at. The good schools will not give you the time of day except to tell you that you "don't meet their needs at this time." After that, you start looking overseas. Then you run into the "competition" - people with history degrees and certification. People with a B.Ed and a double major in History and English (or Socials and PE, a deadly duo!).
IMHO, a degree in political science is not the best degree to base your teaching career on. You will have so many gaps compared to a teacher with a BA in History (who might still have gaps, but that's not the point). If I were a recruiter, I would look at your degree (transcripts are not going to be examined too much at this stage) and then look at someones BA History degree, and automatically gravitate to the latter over you. I might consider you for economics, but honestly, I would put you in my second rank for socials/history, simply because there will be people out there with better backgrounds.
Now, if you taught at home for longer, or there were something else about you (coaching, other skills that my school could use), I might bump you up in my rankings.
Walter? Sid? Anybody else on the other end who can speak to this?
Degree in PoliSci
If I am hiring you to teach History in HS, then you really have to know the subject. A degree in History goes a long way toward showing me that you have the right background. If your degree is in something else, then the onus is on you to prove that you know your stuff. A few years' teaching History in the US would certainly help your cause, but I would want to push you a bit more than that.
All that said, if polisci is what really interests you, then I am a strong believer in people studying what they are passionate about.
All that said, if polisci is what really interests you, then I am a strong believer in people studying what they are passionate about.
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BookshelfAmy
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:21 pm
@jstwatchin
I can't comment from a recruiter's perspective, but hubby and I just got hired, and we both have PB certs. Make sure you list it as a PB, university-based program (as opposed to a six-week summer crash course Alternative cert). I even saw some schools that wanted applicants to have "a masters degree or fifth year."
Can anyone else comment on this? Has anyone experienced negative feedback for having a PB cert?
I can't comment from a recruiter's perspective, but hubby and I just got hired, and we both have PB certs. Make sure you list it as a PB, university-based program (as opposed to a six-week summer crash course Alternative cert). I even saw some schools that wanted applicants to have "a masters degree or fifth year."
Can anyone else comment on this? Has anyone experienced negative feedback for having a PB cert?