I have been lurking around the board for a few weeks. I have found so much useful information and love hearing about everyone's different experiences. It also seems everyone is super helpful and willing to share all of the good, the bad and the ugly.
I am interviewing for a position in Kuwait this week. I have read a lot about Kuwait. At first, I was really excited about the prospect of moving there. Then I read some more and started to think maybe I couldn't sacrifice my professional integrity for money and read a lot of bad things that made me a lot less excited. And now I am trying to get myself excited about it again, because the money and savings potential would be really good for us.
I realize that every experience is what you will make of it. I think we will be fine there, but I would just love to hear some things from others who are living there or have lived there recently.
I am currently living in Cairo, so I know what it's like to be in the ME and dealing with Middle Eastern parents. I love it here but I am also ready to move on.
Can you sell me on Kuwait? Why do you like about living/teaching there?
If you hate it, feel free to share that also. I don't mind hearing all sides, and anything will help. I have heard that it really isn't all that cheap and can actually be a bit hard to save unless you are really disciplined. Is this true?
Oh, also, I would be going with my husband, but no children.
Side question: The interview is with a starter school, which was asked about recently on here. What questions would you ask in the interview with a school in Kuwait that has not yet been operating? ..........I am currently in a starter school now, so I have my own ideas and I do know the challenges that new schools can face. But the main questions that I would normally ask, can't really be asked of a school that is not even operating yet. What would you ask them, specifically thinking about it being a Kuwait school and the struggles teachers face there?
Thanks in advance for any information you can give me!!!!
Sell Me on Kuwait
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intlskipper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm
- Location: Cairo
[quote="vitaminz"]What kind of salary are the offering you? Where is their housing located? Where in Kuwait is the school located? Will you and your husband be working at the school? The thing about working at a new school is there are going to be growing pains.[/quote]
The salary will be somewhere around 37-38K, USD.
I plan to ask about the housing in the interview. Since it's a new school, who knows if they even know yet where the housing will be. I don't even think the school has even been finished being built. The school is in the Sabah Al Salem area of Kuwait City.
My husband is not a teacher. However they do have other openings elsewhere in the school, and I plan to ask about him getting a position as some sort of accounting or admin assistant or even a TA. The website is listing openings in those areas and they have a minimum starting of 440-520KD per month. So if we were both working, it sounds amazing. But we live on just my salary now, and I have a MUCH worse package than they are offering. So I am not too worried about him not being hired, although it would be nice. It's not a deciding factor.
I definitely know about the growing pains of a new school, since I am in one now. On one hand, its exciting to be part of the founding staff....on the other, I do know what its like to be part of a new school and sometimes it is not very exciting at all.......
The salary will be somewhere around 37-38K, USD.
I plan to ask about the housing in the interview. Since it's a new school, who knows if they even know yet where the housing will be. I don't even think the school has even been finished being built. The school is in the Sabah Al Salem area of Kuwait City.
My husband is not a teacher. However they do have other openings elsewhere in the school, and I plan to ask about him getting a position as some sort of accounting or admin assistant or even a TA. The website is listing openings in those areas and they have a minimum starting of 440-520KD per month. So if we were both working, it sounds amazing. But we live on just my salary now, and I have a MUCH worse package than they are offering. So I am not too worried about him not being hired, although it would be nice. It's not a deciding factor.
I definitely know about the growing pains of a new school, since I am in one now. On one hand, its exciting to be part of the founding staff....on the other, I do know what its like to be part of a new school and sometimes it is not very exciting at all.......
If you are going to be paid $37K a year and your husband gets the low end, say 450KD per month then you will be bringing in around 1300KD per month. Housing will almost certainly be provided by the school and you should also have free electricity and water. That 1300KD/month will be tax free. I don't know what your bills are but if you are making 1300KD a month and have no bills then you will be able to save at least half of what you make per month, eat whatever you want, and travel on breaks. Even if your husband can't get a job you can still live well off of 800KD a month since everything else is paid for. Me and my wife live off of 1/3 of my salary and we are very comfortable here.
Sabah Al Salem is an up and coming area. Not as dirty or crowded as other areas where the bulk of the schools are located.
Kuwait is, IMO, much cleaner than most of Cairo but it is relative. The areas where the Kuwaiti's live are much cleaner than where most expats live but I don't think anywhere in Kuwait is as dirty as the area around the Pyramids in Cairo. Driving here is dangerous but again not nearly as bad as Cairo.
One thing I failed to mention is that Kuwaiti's are different than Egyptians in much the same way American's are different than Europeans. Many look similar but have different mind sets. It is something to consider/remember if you come here.
Sabah Al Salem is an up and coming area. Not as dirty or crowded as other areas where the bulk of the schools are located.
Kuwait is, IMO, much cleaner than most of Cairo but it is relative. The areas where the Kuwaiti's live are much cleaner than where most expats live but I don't think anywhere in Kuwait is as dirty as the area around the Pyramids in Cairo. Driving here is dangerous but again not nearly as bad as Cairo.
One thing I failed to mention is that Kuwaiti's are different than Egyptians in much the same way American's are different than Europeans. Many look similar but have different mind sets. It is something to consider/remember if you come here.
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intlskipper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm
- Location: Cairo
Housing is definitely covered, including utilities. Transportation to and from work. Yearly flights for both me and husband. Health/Life Insurance. VERY generous settling in allowance of 1000kd. Shipping allowance of 250KD. Contract renewal and end of contract bonus.
The package, in my opinion, is excellent.
I've heard that it is still dirty, as is many places in the ME. But you are probably right, it probably is less dirty than here. It may very well seem very clean in comparison to certain areas around Cairo.
I am sure Kuwaitis are different in their own way compared to Egyptians. I have read a lot about grade fixing and Kuwaitis expecting certain grades and teachers just having to give them. Also, about the Kuwaitis not being happy with their students be disciplined..... Is this really as common as it seems? Are you happy/satisfied at the school you are working at?
Also, I heard that food there is actually quite a bit more expensive than it is here. We currently spend about 2300le per month on food, which is about $340. We pretty much eat whatever we want, but we do shop at markets for veg/fruit, etc to save. Would we be able to continue spending this amount, or would it increase, do you think?
Thanks for all your help!
The package, in my opinion, is excellent.
I've heard that it is still dirty, as is many places in the ME. But you are probably right, it probably is less dirty than here. It may very well seem very clean in comparison to certain areas around Cairo.
I am sure Kuwaitis are different in their own way compared to Egyptians. I have read a lot about grade fixing and Kuwaitis expecting certain grades and teachers just having to give them. Also, about the Kuwaitis not being happy with their students be disciplined..... Is this really as common as it seems? Are you happy/satisfied at the school you are working at?
Also, I heard that food there is actually quite a bit more expensive than it is here. We currently spend about 2300le per month on food, which is about $340. We pretty much eat whatever we want, but we do shop at markets for veg/fruit, etc to save. Would we be able to continue spending this amount, or would it increase, do you think?
Thanks for all your help!
My wife and I spend about 25-30KD a week on groceries, and we eat out once or twice. It can be as cheap or expensive as you want it. We get Iranian bread from a place down the street to go with our Indian food and it costs about 80fils for 3 huge pieces. Cheap.
The school I am at has its problems, but the admin will almost always go to bat for you regarding discipline or grades. Our school has a mix of Bedouin and Kuwaitis, and that can cause tension. Unfortunately, many parents are absent from their child's education and that has a noticeable effect.
Kuwait isn't somewhere we would want to stay for longer than our two years (heading out after this year). We have our own reasons for leaving, but many people we work with enjoy it here and are planning on staying for at least another year. Some of them have been here for 10+ years.
37,000$ USD is very good. Most first contract salaries range from $28,000-34,000
The school I am at has its problems, but the admin will almost always go to bat for you regarding discipline or grades. Our school has a mix of Bedouin and Kuwaitis, and that can cause tension. Unfortunately, many parents are absent from their child's education and that has a noticeable effect.
Kuwait isn't somewhere we would want to stay for longer than our two years (heading out after this year). We have our own reasons for leaving, but many people we work with enjoy it here and are planning on staying for at least another year. Some of them have been here for 10+ years.
37,000$ USD is very good. Most first contract salaries range from $28,000-34,000
[quote="intlskipper"]Housing is definitely covered, including utilities. Transportation to and from work. Yearly flights for both me and husband. Health/Life Insurance. VERY generous settling in allowance of 1000kd. Shipping allowance of 250KD. Contract renewal and end of contract bonus.
The package, in my opinion, is excellent.
I've heard that it is still dirty, as is many places in the ME. But you are probably right, it probably is less dirty than here. It may very well seem very clean in comparison to certain areas around Cairo.
I am sure Kuwaitis are different in their own way compared to Egyptians. I have read a lot about grade fixing and Kuwaitis expecting certain grades and teachers just having to give them. Also, about the Kuwaitis not being happy with their students be disciplined..... Is this really as common as it seems? Are you happy/satisfied at the school you are working at?
Also, I heard that food there is actually quite a bit more expensive than it is here. We currently spend about 2300le per month on food, which is about $340. We pretty much eat whatever we want, but we do shop at markets for veg/fruit, etc to save. Would we be able to continue spending this amount, or would it increase, do you think?
Thanks for all your help![/quote]
Your settling in allowance is 5X's what my school gives and the shipping allowance is 50KD more than what we get too. Starting salary is similar to my employer too.
You and your husband can eat well for $400 a month if you shop at the local co-op stores. However, if you shop at the big chains (Sultan Centar, City Center, Giant, Carrefour) then you will spend double.
I can only speak for my experience here but I signed on for a 6th year and could easily stay for another 5. As I've said many times I really like the school I work for and the kids I teach. My job, the salary, and the kids keep me here.
I hear about grade fixing all the time but I honestly haven't seen any of that at my school. If kids can't pass, or make high enough grades, then they are usually out of the school after a year or two. However, I do hear about grade fixing at other schools. Who knows unless you are actually asked to do this. I've never been asked or lead to believe I needed to change anyones grades.
Kuwait isn't for everyone. Not being able to legally drink here and no night life is a killer for many expats. That is why I'd suggest Dubai or Abu Dhabi be their first ME job attempt. However, if you don't need it then Kuwait is great.
As far as my school goes I'm very satisfied with it. As I said, I'll stay here for a while longer and would only consider leaving here if I could land a job at one of about 20 other schools world wide.
The package, in my opinion, is excellent.
I've heard that it is still dirty, as is many places in the ME. But you are probably right, it probably is less dirty than here. It may very well seem very clean in comparison to certain areas around Cairo.
I am sure Kuwaitis are different in their own way compared to Egyptians. I have read a lot about grade fixing and Kuwaitis expecting certain grades and teachers just having to give them. Also, about the Kuwaitis not being happy with their students be disciplined..... Is this really as common as it seems? Are you happy/satisfied at the school you are working at?
Also, I heard that food there is actually quite a bit more expensive than it is here. We currently spend about 2300le per month on food, which is about $340. We pretty much eat whatever we want, but we do shop at markets for veg/fruit, etc to save. Would we be able to continue spending this amount, or would it increase, do you think?
Thanks for all your help![/quote]
Your settling in allowance is 5X's what my school gives and the shipping allowance is 50KD more than what we get too. Starting salary is similar to my employer too.
You and your husband can eat well for $400 a month if you shop at the local co-op stores. However, if you shop at the big chains (Sultan Centar, City Center, Giant, Carrefour) then you will spend double.
I can only speak for my experience here but I signed on for a 6th year and could easily stay for another 5. As I've said many times I really like the school I work for and the kids I teach. My job, the salary, and the kids keep me here.
I hear about grade fixing all the time but I honestly haven't seen any of that at my school. If kids can't pass, or make high enough grades, then they are usually out of the school after a year or two. However, I do hear about grade fixing at other schools. Who knows unless you are actually asked to do this. I've never been asked or lead to believe I needed to change anyones grades.
Kuwait isn't for everyone. Not being able to legally drink here and no night life is a killer for many expats. That is why I'd suggest Dubai or Abu Dhabi be their first ME job attempt. However, if you don't need it then Kuwait is great.
As far as my school goes I'm very satisfied with it. As I said, I'll stay here for a while longer and would only consider leaving here if I could land a job at one of about 20 other schools world wide.
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intlskipper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm
- Location: Cairo
Thanks cdn and vitaminz for all of the information.
It sounds like you are working at great schools or at least decent schools with some academic integrity. That does make me feel quite a bit better, because I feel like I have heard this about every school in Kuwait. I want to know where you are working. Haha.
Good to hear that we can keep our food budget relatively around the same amount. We don't shop at carrefour now, except for a few select items, so I'm not worried there. We should at the local markets and the small fruit/veg stands. We do pay a little extra to get decent meat that is imported but that's because the meat and quality standards are exceptionally low here.
I'm also glad to hear you like your students too. I feel like I have read a lot of trash talking about Kuwaiti kids too. Although, I am sure there would be/is lots of trash talking about Egyptian kids, but I absolutely adore my students.
It sounds like you are working at great schools or at least decent schools with some academic integrity. That does make me feel quite a bit better, because I feel like I have heard this about every school in Kuwait. I want to know where you are working. Haha.
Good to hear that we can keep our food budget relatively around the same amount. We don't shop at carrefour now, except for a few select items, so I'm not worried there. We should at the local markets and the small fruit/veg stands. We do pay a little extra to get decent meat that is imported but that's because the meat and quality standards are exceptionally low here.
I'm also glad to hear you like your students too. I feel like I have read a lot of trash talking about Kuwaiti kids too. Although, I am sure there would be/is lots of trash talking about Egyptian kids, but I absolutely adore my students.
We only shop at Sultan Center and Carrefour and we spend what I said above. Sultan Center is definitely pricey, but that's due to the range of imported stuff they get. I find Carrefour actually has pretty good deals when we go. I once bought about 4 pounds of coffee for 2KD.
The fruit and vegetable stand near our apartment is convenient, but they charge more than both Sultan and Carrefour.
The fruit and vegetable stand near our apartment is convenient, but they charge more than both Sultan and Carrefour.
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intlskipper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm
- Location: Cairo
cdn and vitaminz: can you tell me which schools in Kuwait are schools that you have heard good things about and wouldn't mind working at? I am really interested in coming to Kuwait, so I want to get CVs out to as many schools there as possible.
My interview with the starter school was cancelled. It was very intriguing and made me feel actually quite happy that I seem to have dodged a bullet. I have been dealing with a lot of crap and bullshit and not honoring of contracts at my current starter school and I didn't want to head into the same situation.......... About two hours before my interview, I got an email from my recruiter saying that the principal just decided that she was no longer going to conduct Skype interviews and was only going to do f2f. It felt like a really rash, last minute, knee-jerk type reaction and that's exactly what I am looking to avoid. And for a school that is boasting about a technology vision, it seemed a bit odd that they would be unwilling to do a Skype. So anyway, I am back to the drawing board, but still definitely interesting Kuwait and would love any advice you could give for landing a job there and what schools you would target.
My interview with the starter school was cancelled. It was very intriguing and made me feel actually quite happy that I seem to have dodged a bullet. I have been dealing with a lot of crap and bullshit and not honoring of contracts at my current starter school and I didn't want to head into the same situation.......... About two hours before my interview, I got an email from my recruiter saying that the principal just decided that she was no longer going to conduct Skype interviews and was only going to do f2f. It felt like a really rash, last minute, knee-jerk type reaction and that's exactly what I am looking to avoid. And for a school that is boasting about a technology vision, it seemed a bit odd that they would be unwilling to do a Skype. So anyway, I am back to the drawing board, but still definitely interesting Kuwait and would love any advice you could give for landing a job there and what schools you would target.
Reply
@intlskipper
Im going to save the long ranting evils of Kuwait. I only had two observations. The first is that as a starter school in Kuwait, they cant promise you anything with any confidence. You might get the money and have to work 2 or 3 times as hard and you might just be forced to sign a new contract with lower benefits and terms or be fired. Their is a clause in Kuwaite labor law that basically allows a company or organization to ignore the contract if fulfilling them would bankrupt the company/school.
Second, your principal is lying to you. No school in Kuwait could staff their whole school from the ground up on ONLY F2F interviews, unless any face will do. There is something else going on that may or may not have anything to do with you, but what you were told is just a saving face excuse.
Im going to save the long ranting evils of Kuwait. I only had two observations. The first is that as a starter school in Kuwait, they cant promise you anything with any confidence. You might get the money and have to work 2 or 3 times as hard and you might just be forced to sign a new contract with lower benefits and terms or be fired. Their is a clause in Kuwaite labor law that basically allows a company or organization to ignore the contract if fulfilling them would bankrupt the company/school.
Second, your principal is lying to you. No school in Kuwait could staff their whole school from the ground up on ONLY F2F interviews, unless any face will do. There is something else going on that may or may not have anything to do with you, but what you were told is just a saving face excuse.
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intlskipper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm
- Location: Cairo
Re: Reply
[quote="PsyGuy"]@intlskipper
Im going to save the long ranting evils of Kuwait. I only had two observations. The first is that as a starter school in Kuwait, they cant promise you anything with any confidence. [b]You might get the money and have to work 2 or 3 times as hard and you might just be forced to sign a new contract with lower benefits and terms or be fired.[/b] Their is a clause in Kuwaite labor law that basically allows a company or organization to ignore the contract if fulfilling them would bankrupt the company/school.
Second, your principal is lying to you. No school in Kuwait could staff their whole school from the ground up on ONLY F2F interviews, unless any face will do. There is something else going on that may or may not have anything to do with you, but what you were told is just a saving face excuse.[/quote]
You're right. It was very odd and made me wonder what the real reason was. But like I said, it made me feel very happy because I feel like this shows that there will be lots of trouble and going back on words, etc at the school, so it was just as well for me. Sure it might have been a nice package and sounded like a nice opportunity, but that doesn't mean anything to me if I am going to be in a school that changes policies with seconds notice. This is the BS I deal with now and can't stand. And the bolded part in your comment is also what has happened at my school this year.
It's all fine and well. This wasn't meant to be for me and I feel good about learning that now rather than later after I've signed or even after arriving.
Im going to save the long ranting evils of Kuwait. I only had two observations. The first is that as a starter school in Kuwait, they cant promise you anything with any confidence. [b]You might get the money and have to work 2 or 3 times as hard and you might just be forced to sign a new contract with lower benefits and terms or be fired.[/b] Their is a clause in Kuwaite labor law that basically allows a company or organization to ignore the contract if fulfilling them would bankrupt the company/school.
Second, your principal is lying to you. No school in Kuwait could staff their whole school from the ground up on ONLY F2F interviews, unless any face will do. There is something else going on that may or may not have anything to do with you, but what you were told is just a saving face excuse.[/quote]
You're right. It was very odd and made me wonder what the real reason was. But like I said, it made me feel very happy because I feel like this shows that there will be lots of trouble and going back on words, etc at the school, so it was just as well for me. Sure it might have been a nice package and sounded like a nice opportunity, but that doesn't mean anything to me if I am going to be in a school that changes policies with seconds notice. This is the BS I deal with now and can't stand. And the bolded part in your comment is also what has happened at my school this year.
It's all fine and well. This wasn't meant to be for me and I feel good about learning that now rather than later after I've signed or even after arriving.
Re: Reply
[quote="PsyGuy"]@intlskipper
The first is that as a starter school in Kuwait, they cant promise you anything with any confidence. You might get the money and have to work 2 or 3 times as hard and you might just be forced to sign a new contract with lower benefits and terms or be fired.
Second, your principal is lying to you. No school in Kuwait could staff their whole school from the ground up on ONLY F2F interviews, unless any face will do. There is something else going on that may or may not have anything to do with you, but what you were told is just a saving face excuse.[/quote]
I'll go one step beyond what he says and say that working at any start up international school might not be such a good idea.
There is a chance that this principal hired for those positions in country or at a job fair and is, as Psyguy said, just saving face.
You wanted to know which schools in Kuwait I'd work for so I'll tell you in order. Al Bayan Bilingual School, Universal American School, American School of Kuwait, American International School, and possibly British School of Kuwait or New English School. I wouldn't work anywhere else here.
The first is that as a starter school in Kuwait, they cant promise you anything with any confidence. You might get the money and have to work 2 or 3 times as hard and you might just be forced to sign a new contract with lower benefits and terms or be fired.
Second, your principal is lying to you. No school in Kuwait could staff their whole school from the ground up on ONLY F2F interviews, unless any face will do. There is something else going on that may or may not have anything to do with you, but what you were told is just a saving face excuse.[/quote]
I'll go one step beyond what he says and say that working at any start up international school might not be such a good idea.
There is a chance that this principal hired for those positions in country or at a job fair and is, as Psyguy said, just saving face.
You wanted to know which schools in Kuwait I'd work for so I'll tell you in order. Al Bayan Bilingual School, Universal American School, American School of Kuwait, American International School, and possibly British School of Kuwait or New English School. I wouldn't work anywhere else here.
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intlskipper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm
- Location: Cairo
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intlskipper
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:29 pm
- Location: Cairo
Well....I have an interview with Universal now!
Can you give me any more information about them? Anything I should know going in or things to ask about specifically?
The reviews on here aren't so great for them, but there also hasn't been anything posted since 2010, so I guess that means it may have leveled out and is doing decent now.
I've heard that they are actually one of the best to work at so I don't take the reviews too seriously.
Can you give me any more information about them? Anything I should know going in or things to ask about specifically?
The reviews on here aren't so great for them, but there also hasn't been anything posted since 2010, so I guess that means it may have leveled out and is doing decent now.
I've heard that they are actually one of the best to work at so I don't take the reviews too seriously.