Before I ask, thanks to everyone who has so generously been answering my questions.
So where should I put experience that is not at a school, but that I feel is relevant? For example, I am a biology person and for several years when teaching in a school was not practical because of the ages of my kids, I worked at the zoo with the education/ high school intern program. Any suggestions on how to organize a resume that doesn't just have a tidy chronological list of schools?
Resume question
I did A LOT of research on resumes some months ago. What I ended up with was a "key achievements", educations, and teaching experience on page one. Page 2 has related experience, pd, etc. that way it's still there, but doesn't take away from the teaching experience (which I understand is what's really important).
Btw, I know some people will say related experience doesn't matter, but I had an interviewer this weekend ask about other experiences, and was really impressed with what I had done before teaching.
Btw, I know some people will say related experience doesn't matter, but I had an interviewer this weekend ask about other experiences, and was really impressed with what I had done before teaching.
Reply
Related experience doesnt matter, or more accurately its trivial and negligible compared to post certification teaching experience. Admins and recruiters arent going to trash talk your experience to your face. Unless your schools in the process of building a zoo, its of very little practical utility.
Schools care about 2 things what you can teach and what you have taught.
The top (and only) 3 things that should be front on your resume are in order:
1) Teaching Experience: What have you taught and how were you successful, and by successful I mean your students examination scores.
2) Education: What's your degree in and what was your major.
3) Certification: What are you qualified (by some regulatory authority) to teach.
Your non related experience should go under a separate heading after those, or if your teaching experience is light after your teaching experience.
Schools care about 2 things what you can teach and what you have taught.
The top (and only) 3 things that should be front on your resume are in order:
1) Teaching Experience: What have you taught and how were you successful, and by successful I mean your students examination scores.
2) Education: What's your degree in and what was your major.
3) Certification: What are you qualified (by some regulatory authority) to teach.
Your non related experience should go under a separate heading after those, or if your teaching experience is light after your teaching experience.
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Teachermama
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- Location: USA
Thanks junglegym. That is helpful.
Psyguy, I understand that a school is not a zoo, however I feel like what I did at the zoo was totally relevant as it involved mentoring high school students who were often getting credit for doing independent biology/environmental sciences projects at their high schools for the work that we did with them at the zoo.
Psyguy, I understand that a school is not a zoo, however I feel like what I did at the zoo was totally relevant as it involved mentoring high school students who were often getting credit for doing independent biology/environmental sciences projects at their high schools for the work that we did with them at the zoo.
Reply
I know you think its relevant, thats called cognitive congruence, or simply, ego. You did it, so it must be important, because you wouldnt do something that wasnt important.
ELL teaching, being a classroom/teachers aid is more closely relevant then zoo mentor, and none of those experiences count. Your experience is right around the same as being a summer camp counselor, and it doesnt count. If you had no teaching experience and were applying as a noob or for an internship, youd include it because otherwise your resume would be the size of a post it note, but compared to your actual teaching experience it means very close to nothing.
I would bring it up in an interview if I was using it to illustrate a point regarding how the experience grew my teaching and professional development, but trying to dress it up and shovel it like it was equivalent to classroom teaching experience just makes you sound desperate and un-credible.
Heres the dirty of it, this is the IS field, we all have meaningful pre-certification experience and activities that have contributed to making us the teachers we are now. Unless a school can tie that experience into something they can market or it illustrates how it makes you a better teacher then everyone else they are considering, then it doesnt distinguish you from the candidate pool. When you offer a recruiter/admin a comparison of your experiences, anything that detracts the focus from your primary strength, weakens that strength.
ELL teaching, being a classroom/teachers aid is more closely relevant then zoo mentor, and none of those experiences count. Your experience is right around the same as being a summer camp counselor, and it doesnt count. If you had no teaching experience and were applying as a noob or for an internship, youd include it because otherwise your resume would be the size of a post it note, but compared to your actual teaching experience it means very close to nothing.
I would bring it up in an interview if I was using it to illustrate a point regarding how the experience grew my teaching and professional development, but trying to dress it up and shovel it like it was equivalent to classroom teaching experience just makes you sound desperate and un-credible.
Heres the dirty of it, this is the IS field, we all have meaningful pre-certification experience and activities that have contributed to making us the teachers we are now. Unless a school can tie that experience into something they can market or it illustrates how it makes you a better teacher then everyone else they are considering, then it doesnt distinguish you from the candidate pool. When you offer a recruiter/admin a comparison of your experiences, anything that detracts the focus from your primary strength, weakens that strength.
I believe related experience is important...yes, teaching experience, certifications, degrees, ect. are critical to include and should be placed right out front..... but those life experiences/related experiences tell a lot about who you are. It provides one more layer. Recruiters definitely want to know your teaching experience but they are also looking for a good fit for their school...the more they learn about you the better to ascertain whether you are the person to be hired.
I have a small related experience section included on my résumé, listed on the second page. Quite often these experiences have been brought up in interviews and allowed me to talked about how they impacted my teaching.
Good luck.
I have a small related experience section included on my résumé, listed on the second page. Quite often these experiences have been brought up in interviews and allowed me to talked about how they impacted my teaching.
Good luck.
Your experience
Is of course relevant and interesting to recruiters. When I look at resumes - whether in a databank or in hard copy, my first task is to determine whether candidates meet the basic qualifications. This gives me a long list - let's say 20 - of possibles. Thereafter, I look at the full picture of each candidate to help me choose which ones to meet with: teaching background, qualifications, family situation, coaching ability and other experiences. Someone who has worked for a couple of years in Korea as an English teacher - even before qualification - will certainly have learned something about teaching technique, as well as having proved herself able to adjust to a very different culture. Why wouldn't that be helpful to her application? If I interview that candidate, I should certainly ask about her time in Korea.
Please ignore Dave Psyguy's incessant advice. He has NEVER recruited anyone in the world of international education.
Please ignore Dave Psyguy's incessant advice. He has NEVER recruited anyone in the world of international education.
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Teachermama
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- Location: USA
Thank you Walter and Lopaka. That was my gut feeling. I had an interview for a job once and another candidate and I were laughing because on the first page of our resumes, we were basically the same person. I have to believe that recruiters and admin are real 3D people and want to know enough about you and your life to know if you will be a good match for their school.
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msteachkids
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@ teachermama
Let me add to this conversation also... When I was hired at my school, all the 'new hires' met with the head of school when we first arrived and went around and introduced ourselves. When one teacher stood up and told who she was, where she was from, what her hobbies were, etc, the head said, "You were hired because of ______" and referred to her volunteering her talents at a nursing home.
Obviously that wasn't the main reason she was hired, but when the candidate pool has been whittled down to the head's top choices, those things absolutely do stand out... just as Walter said.
Let me add to this conversation also... When I was hired at my school, all the 'new hires' met with the head of school when we first arrived and went around and introduced ourselves. When one teacher stood up and told who she was, where she was from, what her hobbies were, etc, the head said, "You were hired because of ______" and referred to her volunteering her talents at a nursing home.
Obviously that wasn't the main reason she was hired, but when the candidate pool has been whittled down to the head's top choices, those things absolutely do stand out... just as Walter said.
For the pay scale and meeting the school's or country's hiring requirements, school experience counts first and foremost. Relevant experience is exactly that and does count in the hiring process. It rounds you out as a a person and educator, not to mention fills in otherwise suspicious gaps in your CV.
Comment
The problem with Walter is he doesnt know what he thinks he knows. He also cant read, since the OPs question was about her zoo experience and not teaching in SK. ive been recruiting for a little less then a decade and hes not qualified to comment on the recruiting practices of every admin in the world.
@Teachermama
I never wrote you shouldnt include it on your resume, you should (please go back and read), just dont equate it to teaching experience. Many candidates are indeed very similar to one another at a certain point. The differences in past experience that matter are experiences that a school can market or that will make you a better teacher in the classroom. Make your zoo experience relevant to your teaching and success in the classroom, if you dont then its irrelevant experience and distracts from what your strengths are. This is different from equating it to classroom experience, regardless of if you mentored students in it or not.
@msteachkids
No this teacher was not hired for _____ reason, she was hired because of her predictive performance in the classroom. That is the only reason any recruiter hires a teacher.
@Sid
The issue is not whether relevant experience counts, of course it does. The issue is is this zoo experience is indeed relevant experience. Just because a candidate thinks/believe/wants it to be relevant doesnt mean it is. In most cases in my experience this experience would not be, unless I have a zoo i need someone to run. Ive had candidates try to justify retail experience to adolescents as "relevant experience"
@Teachermama
I never wrote you shouldnt include it on your resume, you should (please go back and read), just dont equate it to teaching experience. Many candidates are indeed very similar to one another at a certain point. The differences in past experience that matter are experiences that a school can market or that will make you a better teacher in the classroom. Make your zoo experience relevant to your teaching and success in the classroom, if you dont then its irrelevant experience and distracts from what your strengths are. This is different from equating it to classroom experience, regardless of if you mentored students in it or not.
@msteachkids
No this teacher was not hired for _____ reason, she was hired because of her predictive performance in the classroom. That is the only reason any recruiter hires a teacher.
@Sid
The issue is not whether relevant experience counts, of course it does. The issue is is this zoo experience is indeed relevant experience. Just because a candidate thinks/believe/wants it to be relevant doesnt mean it is. In most cases in my experience this experience would not be, unless I have a zoo i need someone to run. Ive had candidates try to justify retail experience to adolescents as "relevant experience"
It depends what level of school you are aiming at, but other experience has definitely counted in our case. If previous experience includes being a barista or a bank clerk, then it probably isn't going to help, but (like in our case) it includes running a business, engineering, overseas ESL and employment counselling, then it definitely makes a differences, because it shows we are widely experienced and competent.
When you are competing against teachers in their mid to late 20s who only ever went to school and have no experience in other fields, then it makes a differences. It may not make a difference in tier 1 schools, but then, with our limited experience (we came to teaching late), we're not aiming at that level yet, anyway.
We've had five interview offers since November and I think at least two of these were offered due to this factor.
When you are competing against teachers in their mid to late 20s who only ever went to school and have no experience in other fields, then it makes a differences. It may not make a difference in tier 1 schools, but then, with our limited experience (we came to teaching late), we're not aiming at that level yet, anyway.
We've had five interview offers since November and I think at least two of these were offered due to this factor.
My reading's fine, Dave
And this is what I read in your post:
"ELL teaching, being a classroom/teachers aid is more closely relevant then zoo mentor, and none of those experiences count."
What do you suggest I should have inferred from those last six words? Fact is you're caught out time after time because of your serial blurting, and then you backtrack and dissemble or simply spout venom.
Meantime, please tell us in what ways you have been recruiting. By your own admission (apart from that time as a short-lived "consultant" in Texas), you have been working as a teacher in a different school every year for the last eight. Seriously, with a record like that, does it seem credible that you are trusted to hire someone?
"ELL teaching, being a classroom/teachers aid is more closely relevant then zoo mentor, and none of those experiences count."
What do you suggest I should have inferred from those last six words? Fact is you're caught out time after time because of your serial blurting, and then you backtrack and dissemble or simply spout venom.
Meantime, please tell us in what ways you have been recruiting. By your own admission (apart from that time as a short-lived "consultant" in Texas), you have been working as a teacher in a different school every year for the last eight. Seriously, with a record like that, does it seem credible that you are trusted to hire someone?