Hong Kong Dollars have my head Spinning

[sonder117]

So I'm pretty new to this whole International Teaching thing, but have found ISR to be quite an indispensable resource. Thank you all so much for your years of input.

I've been having a really difficult time navigating the finances of living in Hong Kong. I've done tons of research and the more I learn the more confused I become as there is so much conflicting information out there. Are any of you on ISR currently living in HK or have lived there? I'm not really a needy person and can be pretty comfortable in most situations, but I would like to be realistic about what I'm getting into. It seems that NOT providing housing is the norm for international schools in Hong Kong. It also seems, as per posts by other members, that the initial start up costs are worthy of a second thought.

* I guess what I'm looking for is more of a clear cut "cost of living scale" that I can keep in mind when applying to schools there.

* What is considered poor? Just enough? Comfortable? Living it up?

* Where would, say, 30,000 Hong Kong Dollars per month fall on that scale?

Thanks again for your expertise continued luck and fortune to all.

[DCgirl]

[quote="sonder117"]

* I guess what I'm looking for is more of a clear cut "cost of living scale" that I can keep in mind when applying to schools there.

* What is considered poor? Just enough? Comfortable? Living it up?

* Where would, say, 30,000 Hong Kong Dollars per month fall on that scale?

Thanks again for your expertise continued luck and fortune to all.[/quote]


Absolutely not living it up. You're talking about $4000 US a month. Hong Kong is expensive. A lot in HK depends on your housing. I use a general rule of your housing should be about 1/3 of your salary. Above that and you start to experience financial difficulties. It's nothing to spend 30k per month on just an apartment in HK. A lot depends on your needs. You can do anything from share an apartment or rent a modern place in the middle of the action. I don't know your circumstances. I spend 19K.

Food is relatively inexpensive but I pay a lot more than I would in the US. Eating out can get pricey. There are so many options and temptations. Transportation is relatively inexpensive. You can get by without a car using taxi, bus, ferry and MTR.

Look on the Asia xpat forum (Hong Kong). There are many people who have asked the same type of question about what salary would be sufficient to live. Also take a look at a real estate site like squarefoot.com.hk and see how the prices are running for something that you'd be interested in.

[PsyGuy]

You would need 30K to get by (living like a college student), 50K to be doing okay (middle class lifestyle, housing costs more but you save on transportation) and really as a teacher in HK you will never get paid enough to be living it up, but 100K would be a start.

As DCgirl commented housing is the single biggest issue. You can easily spend 30K on rent and utilities alone, and were not talking an overly impressive apartment either.

[sonder117]

Dcgirl
Thanks for the info and the website. I've snooped around there all day and it seems that the small furnished apartments run around hk$20000+ per month. Is it reasonable to aim for something a little closer to 10000 per month or is the cost to furnish it just not worth it?

Psyguy
Thanks for the extra info.

So the scale seems to be
20000/mo poor
30000/mo college student
40000/mo comfortable enough with little savings
50000/mo comfortable with a good amount of savings
60000/mo more comfortable with good savings

Of course I'm thinking os this scale after recovering from the initial hit of setting up and adjusting for what I think the standards of living may be like Hong Kong.

[PsyGuy]

More like

20K/mo WORKING poor
30K/mo college student
40K/mo comfortable enough with NO savings
50K/mo MORE comfortable enough with little savings
60K/mo comfortable with good savings

[misskiwi]

Just FYI - I live in Hong Kong and am paid HK$45,000 (before tax, with 6 years experience) at a non-ESF school here. I travel overseas every holiday, live well, have a nice apartment AND save :D

[Bosley]

I also disagree with Psyguy- he's wrong on this one.

I used to live in Hong Kong (left last year). I made HK $40,000 before taxes and lived very comfortably. I went away every single holiday, ate out in Soho every night (I'm not one to cook) and still managed to leave HK with a very nice chunk of change ($35,000 USD when you include my leaving bonus, MPF payout, last paycheck) .

I had a nice (albeit small) one bedroom flat right in Soho and paid HK $12,500. My friends who are living there currently live in the Mid-Levels, Soho, LKF and pay under HK $20,000 for a nice 1-bedroom. Don't believe the hype, HK is expensive for housing but not as expensive as you think. A former colleague got a 2-bedroom flat last year on Caine Road and pays $22,000 monthly.

Also worth mentioning that most schools offer at least a 10% gratuity at the end of a two year contract which can boost your monthly pay to HK $50 000 +. You can live very comfortably indeed.

[Trocaderoo]

I live in HK, and I know several single teachers living in apartments for around $15K or so. They're small, but most people's apartments are small in HK. If you eat local food, you'll find it very inexpensive. Restaurants run the gamut in cuisine and cost. I'm a bit concerned about your not getting a housing allowance. I think most of the larger international schools offer housing allowances, although I've heard that ESF schools don't, although their base salary is high. Meat is expensive, fresh produce is much less expensive than Australia, my country of origin. If you go to the fresh markets, meat is much cheaper than in the supermarkets. Transport is wonderful. You really don't need a car. Tax is quite low. The public health system is pretty good, and you qualify once you get an ID card. It's a fantastic city. In twenty minutes you can travel from crazy, densely-packed city streets to beautiful, lush country parks.

[wombat83]

Hi

Am moving to HK in August. Salary is 65000 HKD per month, with 22% gratuity. No housing allowance, but rental reimbursement scheme. Single guy, wanting to travel and enjoy HK, but not expecting to fine dine every week! I know I'll be able to save, but how much do people think is feasible? Am looking at 20k for an apartment.....

Many thanks! :D

[sonder117]

Hey All! Thanks to Bosley, misskiwi, and PsyGuy for the additional info. I've done more research on Hong Kong and talked to a few folks who are currently living there. Here's what I've been able to put together:

I'll assume a salary HK$50,000 per month

Taxes(-HK$4500):
I was told that taxes run from 9-17% of your earned income and that most international teachers would fall in the 9% bracket.

Housing(-HK$7000-30000):
HK$7000 seems to get you a simple, small, unfurnished apartment for which you will have to populate with material stuffs on your own and for which utilities are not included. HK$20000 gets you quite a nice, albeit small (about 400sqft) serviced apartment; meaning it is furnished, cleaned by a cleaning lady about twice a week, sheets and pillow cases changed, utilities included, internet included. HK$30000 starts getting quite nice. Lets assume you want a serviced $HK20000 apartment.

Utilities(-HK$0-1000):
These can run about HK$1000 per month if you are not in a serviced apartment; in which case, they'd be included.

Food(-HK$5000):
An inexpensive meal in Hong Kong runs around $50. Assuming 3 meals a day and 7 days a week; this comes out to about HK$5000 per month.

Transportation (-HK$500):
They say the public transport system is first class and a car is unnecessary. Assuming you'll opt for public transport, the price of a monthly pass is about HK$500.

soooooo.....

That's +HK$50000(income) - 4500(tax) - 20000(housing) - 0(utilities) - 5000(food) - 500(transport) = +HK$50000(income) - HK$30000(expense) = +HK$20000 per month

The exchange rate is HK$1 = US$0.13
HK$20000 = US$2600 per month

I tried my best to get good info to share with everyone here, but I'm bound by speculation at this point as I haven't lived in Hong Kong.

Obviously if your income is only 30,000 per month, then you would have a hard time saving with these projections and would probably want to skimp a bit on the housing expense. Adjust accordingly.

Trocaderoo .... it seems you'll be fine even with fine dining.

Hope this helps for anyone thinking about moving to Hong Kong in the future. Please feel free to correct any mistakes or add anything and thanks again for your help.

[PsyGuy]

Your taxes are a little light in my opinion, HK has a system of a flat 15% or a progressive tax based on your chargeable income (thats income minus personal allowances) in most cases an IT is going to be better with the flat 15% rate.

These are some average prices in HK$

Restaurants:
Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant 60.00 HK$
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 400.00 HK$
Combo Meal at McDonalds or Similar 30.00 HK$
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught) 43.00 HK$
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 30.00 HK$
Cappuccino (regular) 33.00 HK$
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle) 10.00 HK$
Water (0.33 liter bottle) 8.00 HK$

Markets:
Milk (regular), 1 liter 20.00 HK$
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 11.00 HK$
Rice (1kg) 17.45 HK$
Eggs (12) 28.00 HK$
Local Cheese (1kg) 110.00 HK$
Chicken Breasts (1kg) 50.00 HK$
Apples (1kg) 25.00 HK$
Oranges (1kg) 25.00 HK$
Tomato (1kg) 18.70 HK$
Potato (1kg) 11.00 HK$
Lettuce (1 head) 9.00 HK$
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 14.00 HK$
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 120.00 HK$
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 10.00 HK$
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 17.50 HK$
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 50.00 HK$

Transportation:
One-way Ticket 10.75 HK$
Monthly Pass 350.00 HK$
Taxi Start 20.00 HK$
Taxi 1km 8.00 HK$
Gasoline (1 liter) 17.57 HK$

Utilities (Monthly):
Basic (Electricity, Gas, Water, Garbage) 1,200.00 HK$
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile 0.50 HK$
Internet (6 Mbps, Unlimited Data, Cable/ADSL) 180.00 HK$

Leisure:
Fitness Club, Monthly Fee for 1 Adult 450.00 HK$
Cinema, International Release, 1 Seat 75.00 HK$

Clothing:
1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) 800.00 HK$
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M, ...) 500.00 HK$
1 Pair of Nike Shoes 600.00 HK$
1 Pair of Leather Shoes 900.00 HK$

Rent (Monthly):
Apartment(1 bedroom) in City Centre 17,500.00 HK$
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 10,000.00 HK$
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre 62,055.20 HK$
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 35,000.00 HK$

[misskiwi]

Wombat83, 65k/month is a great salary. Really good. You will be able to have a really nice apartment, travel lots, eat out often AND save. I'd imagine you could put way 20k a month quite easily. Def go for it!!! It is a brilliant city to live in, and on that money, you'll be able to really make the most of it. Check out a website called squarefoot hk for ideas of rental prices :)

[wombat83]

Thank you for the reply misskiwi. I figured it was a good deal, which has now been signed and sealed. Can't wait now! Maybe see you in HK!