Hey everyone, I'm registered for The Search San Francisco fair in February. If I knew in September what I know now, I would have fought to get into the Cambridge fair. My associate says I'll be a fairly competitive candidate but am still worried that there won't be many good schools still hiring at this point. My main goal is to be in a good with PYP and an international student body.
Also, I'm thinking that schools who are attending Cambridge are less likely to want to consider me as they won't get to meet me face-to-face. Realistically, I don't think I'm competitive enough on paper to be recruited over great candidates at a fair. Getting that Skype interview is a lot harder than getting an interview at a fair!
I'm really just looking to see what other people have to say about this fair and the kinds of jobs that might still be available. I want to be realistic but also am hoping maybe I'm not focussing enough on the positives of this fair. Thoughts? Anyone else attending Search SF?
Search San Francisco
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PaulSiegel
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:43 pm
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
Search San Fransisco
I'm attending the Search San Fran fair.
I dont know how competitive of a candidate I am (freshly minted MAT in English Ed., Certified in GA with no teaching experience), but I am trying to go into this with an open mind and willingness to consider a lot of diverse postings. San Fran maybe the leftovers, but I assume there will still be jobs and hirings. At least I hope so. Other than that I have no idea what this fiar will hold or what potential it has for hirings.
However, The more I read on here I the more I freak out. Thanks Psyguy!
Side bar:
I see the term first tier, second tier, and third tier terms bandied about with little regards to specific benchmarks. Can anyone provide specifics about what constitutes these seemingly arbitrary definitions? I think [u]any[/u] international school is probably better than teaching for a broke county system with a minium of 30 kids per class.
How 'bout this: at the end of the fair we can discuss the outcome over something liquid and drown our sorrows or toast our victories. Thoughts?
I dont know how competitive of a candidate I am (freshly minted MAT in English Ed., Certified in GA with no teaching experience), but I am trying to go into this with an open mind and willingness to consider a lot of diverse postings. San Fran maybe the leftovers, but I assume there will still be jobs and hirings. At least I hope so. Other than that I have no idea what this fiar will hold or what potential it has for hirings.
However, The more I read on here I the more I freak out. Thanks Psyguy!
Side bar:
I see the term first tier, second tier, and third tier terms bandied about with little regards to specific benchmarks. Can anyone provide specifics about what constitutes these seemingly arbitrary definitions? I think [u]any[/u] international school is probably better than teaching for a broke county system with a minium of 30 kids per class.
How 'bout this: at the end of the fair we can discuss the outcome over something liquid and drown our sorrows or toast our victories. Thoughts?
Reply
SF is the leftovers fair. Its after the peak rush in hiring. Its basically lower tier schools and school in regions (like the ME, SCA, and rural asia). If all you are about is a job and getting out of some one room classroom out in the sticks in the USA, then yeah even lower tier ISs are a step up. Your going to be in the same place as lots of other candidates though, there wont be any real rock stars, just slightly more experienced newbies.
Dont look at it as a career maker though, just go in get your money get IB experience and move on. You can handle just about anything for 2 years, and lower tier schools are more accommodating and forgiving with newbies. Youll be in a much better postion in 2 years. The biggest problem that teachers have with dump fairs (SF is the "best" of the dump fairs), is going in with unrealistic expectations. Your going to see small schools in out of the way locations, and a lot of them are going to be for profit businesses that are run like a business. Dont dwell on what the school sounds like, keep in mind all the things yo can do "after work" because really thats all this is its a job, its the thing you do so that you can afford to do the things you REALLY want to do. ISs are the best parts of a private school with the money of a public school (and lots of expenses paid).
You might be working with spoiled privileged kids that are mostly locals but its better then working with under privileged kids who have real social and economic issues.
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
Dont look at it as a career maker though, just go in get your money get IB experience and move on. You can handle just about anything for 2 years, and lower tier schools are more accommodating and forgiving with newbies. Youll be in a much better postion in 2 years. The biggest problem that teachers have with dump fairs (SF is the "best" of the dump fairs), is going in with unrealistic expectations. Your going to see small schools in out of the way locations, and a lot of them are going to be for profit businesses that are run like a business. Dont dwell on what the school sounds like, keep in mind all the things yo can do "after work" because really thats all this is its a job, its the thing you do so that you can afford to do the things you REALLY want to do. ISs are the best parts of a private school with the money of a public school (and lots of expenses paid).
You might be working with spoiled privileged kids that are mostly locals but its better then working with under privileged kids who have real social and economic issues.
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.
2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.
3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
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buffalofan
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm
I attended Search SF 2 years ago. There are definitely jobs to be had as long as you are not too picky. You won't see many or any top schools there as they are done recruiting at that point. I got hired there by a solid tier 2 (my opinion of course) non-profit school and I have signed on for a third year at the school. I would say do your homework but at the same time be open minded about where you might go.
I just checked the list of schools that would be there, and there are quite a few I would consider very solid (I don't subscribe to the tier system). One of them, I worked at for three years and was seriously considering a fourth. You do have to have an open mind about location and what's important to you.
Thanks for the responses. It's good to hear about past successful experiences and opinions of the fair. I am very interested in many of the schools attending. BUT I've checked out what other fairs these schools are attending, and almost all the schools I'm interested in are going to Cambridge as well (in addition to others, I'm sure).
So does anyone know what to expect in terms of schools canceling after Cambridge/right before the SF fair? ...I'm not sure if I should be trying to get Skype interviews before or just be patient and see what happens in SF. I think the latter will keep me more sane :)
@PaulSiegel: what's GA? I had to look up MAT but couldn't find GA (terms us Canadians don't have, or I've just never encountered it). We'll be toasting victories whether or not we come out with jobs! :D
So does anyone know what to expect in terms of schools canceling after Cambridge/right before the SF fair? ...I'm not sure if I should be trying to get Skype interviews before or just be patient and see what happens in SF. I think the latter will keep me more sane :)
@PaulSiegel: what's GA? I had to look up MAT but couldn't find GA (terms us Canadians don't have, or I've just never encountered it). We'll be toasting victories whether or not we come out with jobs! :D
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PaulSiegel
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:43 pm
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
Thanks for the cogent response Psyguy. Makes me a little more optimistic about San Fran.
@Junglegym: Sorry about the acronyms! MAT= Master of Arts in Teaching, basically a teaching certification and masters for those with an undergraduate degree in a content area. GA= the state of Georgia, it's where I live.
@Junglegym: Sorry about the acronyms! MAT= Master of Arts in Teaching, basically a teaching certification and masters for those with an undergraduate degree in a content area. GA= the state of Georgia, it's where I live.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Just wanted to share a glimmer of hope based on our experiences.
The first fair my husband and I attended was in SF. We didn't have a clue what we were getting in to. With a family to consider, we were looking more for a good school for our kids as opposed to a good school for us. As elementary teachers, we each had 5 years of public school teaching experience at the time.
We didn't hear from any of the schools prior to the fair, but in that whirlwind weekend, we had offers ranging from a Quality school with 6 students to Uzbekistan to Singapore American School. In our ignorance, we just talked to anybody and everybody. We ended up accepting the offer from Jakarta International School (great school!) and as I recall there were 6 of us hired at this fair and they had hired on the east coast as well.
After a stint back in the States, the 2nd time we went to a fair we went to Cambridge. Why? Because we were too poor to fork out the $$$ for airfare abroad. Again, we did not have any interviews lined up going in to the fair, but walked away with offers from a variety of interesting places: 2 from Saudi, Lebanon, 2 from China, Germany, and Japan. The only 'shady' school we didn't consider was one of the schools from Saudi because the interviewer gave us the creeps. The others were all places we would want our own children to attend.
We are currently working at yet another highly sought after, top-notch IB school. Just today the director told me he is going to hold out for Cambridge to fill some positions even though we have 2 principals who left for the London fair today.
Based on what we experienced over the years, my advice would be to stay positive and go to the fair with an open mind... you never know what you'll find.
The first fair my husband and I attended was in SF. We didn't have a clue what we were getting in to. With a family to consider, we were looking more for a good school for our kids as opposed to a good school for us. As elementary teachers, we each had 5 years of public school teaching experience at the time.
We didn't hear from any of the schools prior to the fair, but in that whirlwind weekend, we had offers ranging from a Quality school with 6 students to Uzbekistan to Singapore American School. In our ignorance, we just talked to anybody and everybody. We ended up accepting the offer from Jakarta International School (great school!) and as I recall there were 6 of us hired at this fair and they had hired on the east coast as well.
After a stint back in the States, the 2nd time we went to a fair we went to Cambridge. Why? Because we were too poor to fork out the $$$ for airfare abroad. Again, we did not have any interviews lined up going in to the fair, but walked away with offers from a variety of interesting places: 2 from Saudi, Lebanon, 2 from China, Germany, and Japan. The only 'shady' school we didn't consider was one of the schools from Saudi because the interviewer gave us the creeps. The others were all places we would want our own children to attend.
We are currently working at yet another highly sought after, top-notch IB school. Just today the director told me he is going to hold out for Cambridge to fill some positions even though we have 2 principals who left for the London fair today.
Based on what we experienced over the years, my advice would be to stay positive and go to the fair with an open mind... you never know what you'll find.