My Lessons from Bangkok
1. These are the top international teachers. This is the first fair. Schools will hire but they are also willing to walk away and go to London and Cambridge.
2. Schools care about where you’ve been, how long you’ve been there, what you’ve taught, and what you can teach.
3. Network. Meet other teachers. They can put a word in for you or give you good information about positions past and present.
4. Even if they don’t have your position listed, if you’re interested in a school introduce yourself at a time outside of a busy sign-up session.
5. Schools notice if you attend their information session. If you’re really interested, show up. Schedule it like you would an interview.
6. It’s okay not to stay at the host hotel. You meet a lot of people in the candidate’s lounge. Make sure it’s easy to access the hotel. It’s also nice to stay at the host hotel.
7. I will continue to only interview with schools that I’m interested in after doing research. No need to waste anyone’s time and it hurts other serious candidates chances.
8. Just because the profile says so, doesn’t mean it is. Ask questions. Don’t hire dependants with children doesn’t mean it is so if they really want you.
9. Don’t worry about not hearing anything before the fair. Meaningful contact happens at the fair.
10. Creating a brochure or something snappy and colorful is a good idea.
My Notes from Search Bangkok
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newcounsel
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 pm
Comment
The disagree with two of your observations:
Not hearing from a school until at the fair says your not on the top of anyones short list. Schools aggressivly recruit their top 3 candidates for a position, and will sign those candidates early and before the fair. Happens every year the day of signup a significant number of positions are just gone. Those candidates didnt just stumble over a recruiter in the bar. They were contacted, interviewed, and negotiated a contract well before the fair started.
Its good to talk to other teachers, but be careful what you say and what you ask. They barely know you and havent known you long enough to be your friend yet. You should remember that they are the competition or they are closer to other teachers that are your competition. Asking a stranger you dont know anything about to put in a good word for you is either naive or desperate.
Not hearing from a school until at the fair says your not on the top of anyones short list. Schools aggressivly recruit their top 3 candidates for a position, and will sign those candidates early and before the fair. Happens every year the day of signup a significant number of positions are just gone. Those candidates didnt just stumble over a recruiter in the bar. They were contacted, interviewed, and negotiated a contract well before the fair started.
Its good to talk to other teachers, but be careful what you say and what you ask. They barely know you and havent known you long enough to be your friend yet. You should remember that they are the competition or they are closer to other teachers that are your competition. Asking a stranger you dont know anything about to put in a good word for you is either naive or desperate.
I would have agreed with you before the fair but these are the lessons that I've learned. The 2 schools that came after me the hardest, didn't contact me before the fair. I mean found me in person outside of the sessions, asked their boards to change policy to hire me type of thing. I also heard one candidate say that he would never have thought about a school before the fair and now he was accepting an offer and the recruiter (from a Tier 1 school) said the exact same thing happens to me with a candidate.
I had 3 pre-fair interviews. One school twice. And didn't get the jobs. Last fair the pre-interview landed me a position in the first slot of interview sign-ups. Will probably never know why. But I did make a friend later on who worked at the school and gave me her opinion on why-and it made sense. I also met people who told me what had happened to my first choice positions that had disappeared before the fair.
I do make good friends at each fair. Real friends. The kind that I visit with during the year and visit me. I'm on Skype with one now. At this particular fair I talked sat for hours talking with a group and it turned out that a woman that I was chatting with worked at one of my top schools. I had already interviewed with them twice with no word. She later told me that she had gone to them and told them that I was the kind of person that they wanted at the fair. And hours later, they came to me and said just that. They wanted me at their school. It didn't work out because of another reason but it happened and I didn't doubt the school or the other candidate. So, you don't count on something like that but it can happen. There's a lot that you can learn about a person over the course of hours or days. So, no, I would never ask someone to vouch for me but if you're genuine and open then all types of things can happen.
Even though the fair was intense, I didn't view anyone as competition. I think people were sharing valuable information and cheering other candidates up and on-even in their old field. Teachers are kind of like that.
I had 3 pre-fair interviews. One school twice. And didn't get the jobs. Last fair the pre-interview landed me a position in the first slot of interview sign-ups. Will probably never know why. But I did make a friend later on who worked at the school and gave me her opinion on why-and it made sense. I also met people who told me what had happened to my first choice positions that had disappeared before the fair.
I do make good friends at each fair. Real friends. The kind that I visit with during the year and visit me. I'm on Skype with one now. At this particular fair I talked sat for hours talking with a group and it turned out that a woman that I was chatting with worked at one of my top schools. I had already interviewed with them twice with no word. She later told me that she had gone to them and told them that I was the kind of person that they wanted at the fair. And hours later, they came to me and said just that. They wanted me at their school. It didn't work out because of another reason but it happened and I didn't doubt the school or the other candidate. So, you don't count on something like that but it can happen. There's a lot that you can learn about a person over the course of hours or days. So, no, I would never ask someone to vouch for me but if you're genuine and open then all types of things can happen.
Even though the fair was intense, I didn't view anyone as competition. I think people were sharing valuable information and cheering other candidates up and on-even in their old field. Teachers are kind of like that.
Comment
You were being recruited in advance, you just didnt know it. It wasnt serendipity, the image of lucky happenstance is just a better sales approach then the look of desperation.
Thats a nice story, but you really dont know if and when you were sabotaged. Those interviews that didnt work out could have just as easily been another candidate strategically working against you wither for themselves or someone else.
Ive seen all kinds of clandestine behavior from "accidently" spilling a soda before an interview to removing an application packet from a schools box to sabotaging printers and computers. Candidates steal resumes right before signup, a spouse faking calls to recruiters "canceling" a competing candidates interview.
Thats a nice story, but you really dont know if and when you were sabotaged. Those interviews that didnt work out could have just as easily been another candidate strategically working against you wither for themselves or someone else.
Ive seen all kinds of clandestine behavior from "accidently" spilling a soda before an interview to removing an application packet from a schools box to sabotaging printers and computers. Candidates steal resumes right before signup, a spouse faking calls to recruiters "canceling" a competing candidates interview.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
You can be a great teacher and not aggressively recruited before a fair. There are always those hard-to-fill positions that are gone before the fair (and this year I know of four colleagues who were offered and accepted positions - pre-fair). However, most positions are filled at the fair and many of them are cold-filled based on contact which only began at the fair.
Also, I agree with DC girl on networking. We met a few people at this fair that we are keeping in touch with, first of all, because we hit it off, and second of all because in international teaching it is a small world and you just never know who knows who.
For instance, from two different sets of friends who don't know each other, both have another set of friends in common who happen to teach at the school I am going to next year. How small a world is that? Making and keeping those fair connections alive can give you the inside scoop/track on that next job, and vice versa. Besides, it is fascinating to meet new people and share experiences with them!
Also, I agree with DC girl on networking. We met a few people at this fair that we are keeping in touch with, first of all, because we hit it off, and second of all because in international teaching it is a small world and you just never know who knows who.
For instance, from two different sets of friends who don't know each other, both have another set of friends in common who happen to teach at the school I am going to next year. How small a world is that? Making and keeping those fair connections alive can give you the inside scoop/track on that next job, and vice versa. Besides, it is fascinating to meet new people and share experiences with them!
Comment
If your not being aggressivly recruited, then your not that great a teacher.
Every teacher at the fair is "great" in respects to the caliber of candidates attending. If you didnt have some measure of greatness youd be at a different fair (possibly a dump fair), or not given an invitation.
If the positions are awarded before the fair starts they werent that hard to fill. The hardest position to fill is the one where as a recruiter im competing for a highly competitive candidate. When comparing subjects those such as math and science tend to be more difficult to fill then say primary, but I can get a math or science teacher anytime if I lower my standards and expectations, and thats what schools have the most difficult time doing is getting that special teacher they dont have to compromise any of their wants and desires for.
Socializing is different then networking. One is personal and one is professional. Getting to know people is very different then asking them to help you get a job and exposing professional weakness in your resume.
Every teacher at the fair is "great" in respects to the caliber of candidates attending. If you didnt have some measure of greatness youd be at a different fair (possibly a dump fair), or not given an invitation.
If the positions are awarded before the fair starts they werent that hard to fill. The hardest position to fill is the one where as a recruiter im competing for a highly competitive candidate. When comparing subjects those such as math and science tend to be more difficult to fill then say primary, but I can get a math or science teacher anytime if I lower my standards and expectations, and thats what schools have the most difficult time doing is getting that special teacher they dont have to compromise any of their wants and desires for.
Socializing is different then networking. One is personal and one is professional. Getting to know people is very different then asking them to help you get a job and exposing professional weakness in your resume.
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Yantantether
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:41 am
Agree with your list DCgirl, and for me specifically,particularly points 8&9. I was offered a contract with a school that stated 'prefer not' regarding applicants with a dependent. I have a dependent but got offered the job all the same and it's a very good school by all accounts.
As SJ rightly says, the positions keenly recruited before the fair tend to be hard to fill/shortage subject areas. The vast majority of recruiting is done AT the fair, not before.
Re. networking there, absolutely! I had the fortune to meet and talk with someone at a school prior to interviewing with them and this was invaluable 'at the coal face' info. that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere else.
We do know what we are talking about PG whether you agree or not, after all, WE WERE THERE!!
As SJ rightly says, the positions keenly recruited before the fair tend to be hard to fill/shortage subject areas. The vast majority of recruiting is done AT the fair, not before.
Re. networking there, absolutely! I had the fortune to meet and talk with someone at a school prior to interviewing with them and this was invaluable 'at the coal face' info. that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere else.
We do know what we are talking about PG whether you agree or not, after all, WE WERE THERE!!
Fairs and interviews
Thank you DCgirl I always find your info helpful and positive.
I am unable to attend any fairs this year because my job doesn't allow any time off grrrr. I suppose they don't want us going to fairs. The Bangkok fair started right at the end of my 2 week break in Jan it started on the 4th and I had to fly out on the 4th I was so bummed.....
I reached out to a school I was interested in before AASSA fair no response. But from reading these forums I wasn't surprised. I did tell them I was unable to go because of work. They emailed me after the fair and said they were looking forward to seeing me there to talk about a position. I am happy to say I am currently in the mix for that spot.
I also had another school reach out to me for a position and said they saw I was going to the Search fair in Feb which I am not and am not registered but they did say they wanted to start the process before the fair. I told them I wasn't going to the fair and so we will do skype interviews. Odd thing is I sent 2 resumes for a position over the course of 6 months only to have them find me and reach out to me as if I never reached out to them odd.. I guess they don't check emails??
If I listened to a certain person on here who knows it all I one would be lead to believe if you are new to the international school system your chances are slim for any good school. Well I am happy that if your information is out there and they want you, you have a chance! Fair or no fair.
I am unable to attend any fairs this year because my job doesn't allow any time off grrrr. I suppose they don't want us going to fairs. The Bangkok fair started right at the end of my 2 week break in Jan it started on the 4th and I had to fly out on the 4th I was so bummed.....
I reached out to a school I was interested in before AASSA fair no response. But from reading these forums I wasn't surprised. I did tell them I was unable to go because of work. They emailed me after the fair and said they were looking forward to seeing me there to talk about a position. I am happy to say I am currently in the mix for that spot.
I also had another school reach out to me for a position and said they saw I was going to the Search fair in Feb which I am not and am not registered but they did say they wanted to start the process before the fair. I told them I wasn't going to the fair and so we will do skype interviews. Odd thing is I sent 2 resumes for a position over the course of 6 months only to have them find me and reach out to me as if I never reached out to them odd.. I guess they don't check emails??
If I listened to a certain person on here who knows it all I one would be lead to believe if you are new to the international school system your chances are slim for any good school. Well I am happy that if your information is out there and they want you, you have a chance! Fair or no fair.
Re: Comment
[quote="PsyGuy"]If your not being aggressivly recruited, then your not that great a teacher.[/quote]
That is absolute bullshit and possibly the most cynical post I've every read on here.
That is absolute bullshit and possibly the most cynical post I've every read on here.
I think your first recruitment fair experience can definitely be enlightening, but also quite stressful. It is exciting though being around all those school administrators (from all over the world) and all the other candidates. It is indeed fun to chat with everyone about their experiences and their hopes and dreams at the fair. You definitely can learn from each other when everyone shares their lessons learned with you.
DCgirl's "lessons learned" list is actually quite similar to a blog series I found on another website - http://internationalschoolcommunity.wor ... ing-fairs/
You might want to check out those "lessons learned" as well.
DCgirl's "lessons learned" list is actually quite similar to a blog series I found on another website - http://internationalschoolcommunity.wor ... ing-fairs/
You might want to check out those "lessons learned" as well.
Comment
@Yantantether
Ive been there too, and we just disagree.
@durianfan
its not BS when its true. Every teacher things they are great and their is a certain amount of reinforcement just getting into the door. Its much like the olympics, getting to the Olympics means your a great athlete, but only one person gets the gold. Even among great teachers (or great anything) their are differences with a bottom of the greats and a top of the greats.
@PsychBean
They check their email they just werent ready to do recruiting at that time for a teacher of your caliber.
Ive been there too, and we just disagree.
@durianfan
its not BS when its true. Every teacher things they are great and their is a certain amount of reinforcement just getting into the door. Its much like the olympics, getting to the Olympics means your a great athlete, but only one person gets the gold. Even among great teachers (or great anything) their are differences with a bottom of the greats and a top of the greats.
@PsychBean
They check their email they just werent ready to do recruiting at that time for a teacher of your caliber.
Just like to add
School number 3 reached out to me before the fair! I am just glad I have my info out there and getting a job does NOT depend on fairs. whew!