How to apply/certified art teacher + teaching wife w/o cred.
How to apply/certified art teacher + teaching wife w/o cred.
Deleted
Last edited by emilyhurd on Fri May 10, 2013 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Sorry in advance this isnt going to make you happy. All your questions are moot because your husband isnt going to get hired by an elite school such as ISB. His problems are:
1) No IB experience (elite IB schools wont even look at you with less then 4 years IB experience).
2) No International School experience
3) Art teachers arent in high demand
4) Hes an expensive hire. A school would have to pay for 4 people (Him, you, and 2 kids) to get one teacher in the classroom. Hes going to be frustrated, and get a lot of "were waiting" from recruiters.
Now this is going to be really mean, but your not going to help your husband at all. Your ESL experience doesnt count. Your resume is a lot of clutter. You have experience in a private school setting but learning support specialist sounds like Teachers Aid to me. You wont even get certified because you would have to intern in a public school (yucky public school kids). A lot of an ITs career is working your way up the tiers, and you seem to say "we want to start at the top" (a lot of american teachers think they are rock stars and that the top elite schools should be so lucky to have them, and thats just not reality). Many support positions for trailing spouses amount to substitute/ESL support/Tutoring or just general office duties part time, and they only do that when they really want the teacher who is the front card. Your academics are just as cluttered, you can get an M.ED in a year and at best you can through together only a couple graduate classes. Internships at elite schools are typically for teachers who are certified just low on experience, and even then they usually have 2 years or so of post certification experience. To cut to the chase you sound high maintenance.
I appreciate the honesty, but even if none of that was true your husband just isnt marketable/competitive enough for an elite school for his first posting, and you dont sound open to a 2nd tier school somewhere like China.
1) No IB experience (elite IB schools wont even look at you with less then 4 years IB experience).
2) No International School experience
3) Art teachers arent in high demand
4) Hes an expensive hire. A school would have to pay for 4 people (Him, you, and 2 kids) to get one teacher in the classroom. Hes going to be frustrated, and get a lot of "were waiting" from recruiters.
Now this is going to be really mean, but your not going to help your husband at all. Your ESL experience doesnt count. Your resume is a lot of clutter. You have experience in a private school setting but learning support specialist sounds like Teachers Aid to me. You wont even get certified because you would have to intern in a public school (yucky public school kids). A lot of an ITs career is working your way up the tiers, and you seem to say "we want to start at the top" (a lot of american teachers think they are rock stars and that the top elite schools should be so lucky to have them, and thats just not reality). Many support positions for trailing spouses amount to substitute/ESL support/Tutoring or just general office duties part time, and they only do that when they really want the teacher who is the front card. Your academics are just as cluttered, you can get an M.ED in a year and at best you can through together only a couple graduate classes. Internships at elite schools are typically for teachers who are certified just low on experience, and even then they usually have 2 years or so of post certification experience. To cut to the chase you sound high maintenance.
I appreciate the honesty, but even if none of that was true your husband just isnt marketable/competitive enough for an elite school for his first posting, and you dont sound open to a 2nd tier school somewhere like China.
Thanks for the feedback.
Of course we were hoping to start at the top but are definitely flexible with schools and locations.
I was under the impression that art teachers were in demand/ more of a front card and was hoping that might be enough to carry three dependents. If not a high tier school, what school/situation/location would accept an art teacher with three dependents?
And you definitely misread my statement about teaching in public school. :)
Of course we were hoping to start at the top but are definitely flexible with schools and locations.
I was under the impression that art teachers were in demand/ more of a front card and was hoping that might be enough to carry three dependents. If not a high tier school, what school/situation/location would accept an art teacher with three dependents?
And you definitely misread my statement about teaching in public school. :)
Check carefully with your state. Some of them, you don't actually have to do your internship in the state or in public schools, though of course that's the norm. Many people who work with the programs aren't even aware that there are other options.
But in some states, you can do your internship in any accredited school anywhere in the world, so long as the school is willing to set up an approved supervision program. In some cases, that just means that someone stops in now and again to observe you in your role - no requirement even that you work full time under supervision.
If your state allows this, you could offer yourself as a very cheap teacher. Like whatever they pay a teaching assistant with no real qualifications, since you don't technically have a credential. But the school might go for it since they'd actually be getting someone with experience, albeit of a different sort than they usually want. Then when you have your qualification, you negotiate a different contract or move to another school.
If your state doesn't offer this, look at other states. Since it's the government, not the uni, which actually gives the credential, you don't have to have your courses at an in-state uni. So long as you meet the requirements, the state will give you a credential. That's usually easier if you go through a state uni (they generally have official agreements with the state that makes it easier to apply for a certificate through the uni), but it can usually be done independently as well. Just a few more hoops. Or maybe you take a quick course or two in the uni the next state over, and they submit your ap to the state for you.
So there may be options for you to get a credential, but they'll take some digging and initiative on your part.
Good luck.
But in some states, you can do your internship in any accredited school anywhere in the world, so long as the school is willing to set up an approved supervision program. In some cases, that just means that someone stops in now and again to observe you in your role - no requirement even that you work full time under supervision.
If your state allows this, you could offer yourself as a very cheap teacher. Like whatever they pay a teaching assistant with no real qualifications, since you don't technically have a credential. But the school might go for it since they'd actually be getting someone with experience, albeit of a different sort than they usually want. Then when you have your qualification, you negotiate a different contract or move to another school.
If your state doesn't offer this, look at other states. Since it's the government, not the uni, which actually gives the credential, you don't have to have your courses at an in-state uni. So long as you meet the requirements, the state will give you a credential. That's usually easier if you go through a state uni (they generally have official agreements with the state that makes it easier to apply for a certificate through the uni), but it can usually be done independently as well. Just a few more hoops. Or maybe you take a quick course or two in the uni the next state over, and they submit your ap to the state for you.
So there may be options for you to get a credential, but they'll take some digging and initiative on your part.
Good luck.
Reply
No one is really in demand in an elite school. They usually fill their planed vacancies by the end of the BKK fair. Some top tier schools can go a couple of years without having to recruit anyone at all. When they do recruit they get to pick pretty much whoever they want.
Art teachers arent usually as mobile as core teachers (Math, Science, Lit, History), once they get to an elit school they have pretty much peaked in their career and they dont leave until they retire or some other unusual catastrophe happens. As a result they have low turnover. if you had an art teacher who could teach traditional art PLUS design technology AND digital media, as well as darkroom, litho, and flex that would be closer to a front card, but still pretty much in the middle ont he marketability scale. Of course if its august and the school looses its art teacher, and its the only hole in their staffing, then in that limited scenario, an art teacher is in very high demand (at that school), even then though there are going to be art teachers with more competitive resumes, and even then 3 dependents will be a hard sell, youd be a schools backup, not the short, short list.
Many schools (and admins) do art very well, they resource a studio, and hire teachers who push their students to experience and express themselves in new media and techniques. There are also schools (and admins) who see art as a recreation period where students basically play and draw. There are ISs that do art on a cart. There are ISs that the art budget (paint, etc) is shared with the theater department (have to paint those backdrops). There are schools that make students buy their own materials, and for any student who isnt serious about art (its not there personal project or essay) or they are going into an art based university program. There are academies that are solely fine arts schools, and the general curriculum take a secondary priority. Ive also seen schools were art was little more then paper, and pencils.
How do you feel about the middle east (ME) and China?
Okay,first Western Europe (WE) is out, with maybe a couple exceptions WE schools dont provide housing packages and taxes are high (average 40%) and with rent on a 3 bedroom apartment, utilities and paying the tax on your kids tuition waivers your husbands salary will be gone.
Japan and HK is out for similar reasons, yes you get a housing allowance but with the exception of a few top tier schools, for a family of 4 you will be going into pocket to afford housing.
If money is important to you S/C america is out as well, only a couple (elite/top tier) schools pay anywhere close to an american salary. Do you have any bills, financial commitments in the states you will still have?
That leaves a chunk of asia and the middle east, which is great for families as the money is good, and there is nothing to do, which is great for kids, as they will go to school and go home. At least you know they wont be leaving the compound. You will also be able to engage in the national past time of shopping (which is really the national past time of all woman everywhere, but I digress). DISCLAIMER: I worked in the ME for 6 weeks, hated it, pulled a runner, and have no issues with painting the entire region and culture with the same brush.
This leaves asia (including Thailand) and seriously your best all round general choice, with China at the top of the list. With husbands credentials a tier 2 school is going to be congruent with his resume. Take a position at an IB school there for a couple years and he will double his marketability (IB experience and IS experience). China is also a pretty easy place to get an ESL position. Wherever you land, youd have a position at a language school within a week.
Realistically all you have is a bachlors degree, which means you can just barely get a work visa to teach ESL. You dont have a teaching certificate (meaning legally a lot of schools cant hire you). You dont have any post certification teaching experience (because your not certified). You dont have a masters.
Art teachers arent usually as mobile as core teachers (Math, Science, Lit, History), once they get to an elit school they have pretty much peaked in their career and they dont leave until they retire or some other unusual catastrophe happens. As a result they have low turnover. if you had an art teacher who could teach traditional art PLUS design technology AND digital media, as well as darkroom, litho, and flex that would be closer to a front card, but still pretty much in the middle ont he marketability scale. Of course if its august and the school looses its art teacher, and its the only hole in their staffing, then in that limited scenario, an art teacher is in very high demand (at that school), even then though there are going to be art teachers with more competitive resumes, and even then 3 dependents will be a hard sell, youd be a schools backup, not the short, short list.
Many schools (and admins) do art very well, they resource a studio, and hire teachers who push their students to experience and express themselves in new media and techniques. There are also schools (and admins) who see art as a recreation period where students basically play and draw. There are ISs that do art on a cart. There are ISs that the art budget (paint, etc) is shared with the theater department (have to paint those backdrops). There are schools that make students buy their own materials, and for any student who isnt serious about art (its not there personal project or essay) or they are going into an art based university program. There are academies that are solely fine arts schools, and the general curriculum take a secondary priority. Ive also seen schools were art was little more then paper, and pencils.
How do you feel about the middle east (ME) and China?
Okay,first Western Europe (WE) is out, with maybe a couple exceptions WE schools dont provide housing packages and taxes are high (average 40%) and with rent on a 3 bedroom apartment, utilities and paying the tax on your kids tuition waivers your husbands salary will be gone.
Japan and HK is out for similar reasons, yes you get a housing allowance but with the exception of a few top tier schools, for a family of 4 you will be going into pocket to afford housing.
If money is important to you S/C america is out as well, only a couple (elite/top tier) schools pay anywhere close to an american salary. Do you have any bills, financial commitments in the states you will still have?
That leaves a chunk of asia and the middle east, which is great for families as the money is good, and there is nothing to do, which is great for kids, as they will go to school and go home. At least you know they wont be leaving the compound. You will also be able to engage in the national past time of shopping (which is really the national past time of all woman everywhere, but I digress). DISCLAIMER: I worked in the ME for 6 weeks, hated it, pulled a runner, and have no issues with painting the entire region and culture with the same brush.
This leaves asia (including Thailand) and seriously your best all round general choice, with China at the top of the list. With husbands credentials a tier 2 school is going to be congruent with his resume. Take a position at an IB school there for a couple years and he will double his marketability (IB experience and IS experience). China is also a pretty easy place to get an ESL position. Wherever you land, youd have a position at a language school within a week.
Realistically all you have is a bachlors degree, which means you can just barely get a work visa to teach ESL. You dont have a teaching certificate (meaning legally a lot of schools cant hire you). You dont have any post certification teaching experience (because your not certified). You dont have a masters.
-
eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
@SighGuy
Well, if you can't offer useful advice, or accurate advice, or well written advice, or even grammatically correct advice, then by all means try to respond after each of Sid's useful, thoughtful, and polite posts so people know you're still relevant. After a while they may even confuse your posts with what Sid wrote. And besides, I'm sure your quantity of posts will make up for their lack of quality. I'm also pretty sure you still win by having the most posts.
Well, if you can't offer useful advice, or accurate advice, or well written advice, or even grammatically correct advice, then by all means try to respond after each of Sid's useful, thoughtful, and polite posts so people know you're still relevant. After a while they may even confuse your posts with what Sid wrote. And besides, I'm sure your quantity of posts will make up for their lack of quality. I'm also pretty sure you still win by having the most posts.
Thanks, Sid. I have looked into transferring my certification work to another stayed and I'm not sure yet if it is a possibility. I'm moving forward with it, but I think the bottom line is that it will take a month (with the upcoming holidays) to figure out and we will not be able to apply now as a teaching couple. If he does not get hired before Bangkok fair, we may be able to change our path to that of a teaching couple.
Thanks for more helpful feedback, PsyGuy.
I am aware of the ongoing battles on this forum but choose to accept the suggestions as they come. Please do not turn this thread into a battle zone.
Thanks for more helpful feedback, PsyGuy.
I am aware of the ongoing battles on this forum but choose to accept the suggestions as they come. Please do not turn this thread into a battle zone.
I just got word that I can complete the field work for my certification at an IS approved by the Dept. of Defense. Do you think we could apply as a teaching couple with my certification pending? The field work/clinical teaching practicum is 3 months long and is unpaid. Is it possible that a school approved by the Dept. of Defense (these are "tier 1" schools, aren't they?) would agree to hire us both with my certification pending?
Comment
@sid
Yes if sids advice was accurate, which it isnt.
Some programs will let you do your student teaching/internship at any accredited school, but accredited means regionally accredited (WASC, etc). These are more true of ACP (Alternative programs). University programs want you to do their program in their cohort of schools. Its not an issue with the state certification department. The program recommends certification to the state authority, but its up to the university/program how they conduct their field experience.
University professional education programs are very restrictive on what they will accept as transfer hours. They want you to complete their program, and take their courses. Online programs and schools have more lenient transfer programs, but even they are going to limit your number of courses, and will make you complete their upper level teaching courses and field experience. Its their entity thats recommending you, and they want to make sure your competent.
You cant just piece together a transcript of courses based on the states regulatory authority. You must comply with the policies and procedures of the recommending program and school, its their transfer policies that determine what you have to do and what courses you have to take.
@emilyhurd
DOD schools are managed by the DODEA (Department of Defense Education Activity). They oversee too organizations DDESS which is responsible for stateside DOD schools, and DoDDS which oversees overseas DOD schools. Its not really appropriate to refer to DoDDS schools as tier 1, etc. When it comes to compensation packages they are more elite schools, though they have very little in common with ISs.
DoDDS does offer a semester long student teaching program, it is unpaid however. DODEA does not hire uncertified teachers, they dont have to. Typically DoDDS looks for teachers with multiple certifications. The demand for art teachers is EXTREMELY low, I dont recall an art teacher being hired CONUS in the last 2 years at all. You could be waiting a decade, and very likely never get a DoDDS Art position over your entire career.
The probability of DoDDS hiring your husband as an art teacher with your certification pending is zero. However the application only takes 30 minutes, and takes a minute to renew each year.
@eion_padraig
GOSHI missed you so much. The League of PsyGuy Nemises had been neglecting me.
Yes if sids advice was accurate, which it isnt.
Some programs will let you do your student teaching/internship at any accredited school, but accredited means regionally accredited (WASC, etc). These are more true of ACP (Alternative programs). University programs want you to do their program in their cohort of schools. Its not an issue with the state certification department. The program recommends certification to the state authority, but its up to the university/program how they conduct their field experience.
University professional education programs are very restrictive on what they will accept as transfer hours. They want you to complete their program, and take their courses. Online programs and schools have more lenient transfer programs, but even they are going to limit your number of courses, and will make you complete their upper level teaching courses and field experience. Its their entity thats recommending you, and they want to make sure your competent.
You cant just piece together a transcript of courses based on the states regulatory authority. You must comply with the policies and procedures of the recommending program and school, its their transfer policies that determine what you have to do and what courses you have to take.
@emilyhurd
DOD schools are managed by the DODEA (Department of Defense Education Activity). They oversee too organizations DDESS which is responsible for stateside DOD schools, and DoDDS which oversees overseas DOD schools. Its not really appropriate to refer to DoDDS schools as tier 1, etc. When it comes to compensation packages they are more elite schools, though they have very little in common with ISs.
DoDDS does offer a semester long student teaching program, it is unpaid however. DODEA does not hire uncertified teachers, they dont have to. Typically DoDDS looks for teachers with multiple certifications. The demand for art teachers is EXTREMELY low, I dont recall an art teacher being hired CONUS in the last 2 years at all. You could be waiting a decade, and very likely never get a DoDDS Art position over your entire career.
The probability of DoDDS hiring your husband as an art teacher with your certification pending is zero. However the application only takes 30 minutes, and takes a minute to renew each year.
@eion_padraig
GOSHI missed you so much. The League of PsyGuy Nemises had been neglecting me.
Emily, I recommend you keep up with your search. PG and I may not agree, but in truth it doesn't matter a whit what either of us says. Each state is different, and you have to check carefully. If your state allows some creative approaches, go for it.
I'm willing to concede that PG may be right that in some states at least, you must apply for certification through a uni program (I really can't prove that it isn't true without doing way too much research), but I can confidently say that at least in some states, you can apply directly, skipping the uni. I got one of my certifications that way.
I'm willing to concede that PG may be right that in some states at least, you must apply for certification through a uni program (I really can't prove that it isn't true without doing way too much research), but I can confidently say that at least in some states, you can apply directly, skipping the uni. I got one of my certifications that way.
Reply
No Sids information is not accurate. There is NO state in the USA that has a direct route to certification through the states certification authority. Sid obtained one of his certifications directly, because he was already certified. He applied through reciprocity (policies of one state accepting another states or foreign governments certification). You are applying for initial (first time) certification, and every state has an educator preparation path using:
1) Traditional Route, through a university/college as an undergraduate, graduate degree program or a post bachelors certification program.
2) Alternative Route, through a non education (college/university) organization. These are Post Bachelors programs that combine seminars and presentations with a field experience.
Both of these routes recommend you for certification to the state certification authority, and you can not apply for certification without the educator program recommendation for your initial certification.
Sid could settle this issue by disclosing the state that offers this direct route to initial certification through the states certification authority?
**FYI**, there is one state that has a very limited certification that requires no preparation program, and thats Hawaii, and its only in the case of indigenous people/culture-studies/history teachers.
1) Traditional Route, through a university/college as an undergraduate, graduate degree program or a post bachelors certification program.
2) Alternative Route, through a non education (college/university) organization. These are Post Bachelors programs that combine seminars and presentations with a field experience.
Both of these routes recommend you for certification to the state certification authority, and you can not apply for certification without the educator program recommendation for your initial certification.
Sid could settle this issue by disclosing the state that offers this direct route to initial certification through the states certification authority?
**FYI**, there is one state that has a very limited certification that requires no preparation program, and thats Hawaii, and its only in the case of indigenous people/culture-studies/history teachers.
Sorry, PG, it was actually my first certificate I got that way. The others were earned through more traditional uni programs. None were through reciprocity, though I do believe that reciprocity is an awesome avenue and very useful for some teachers. I've never needed it, but would use it in a flash if I did.
And I won't be revealing which state. I prefer anonymity. And it wouldn't be helpful to the OP. She needs to check with her state, whether or not it's the same one I used.
And I won't be revealing which state. I prefer anonymity. And it wouldn't be helpful to the OP. She needs to check with her state, whether or not it's the same one I used.
I'll say what I've always said: EVERY SCHOOL, Tier 1 included, has members on its faculty that on paper would make people shake their heads and wonder how they got the job.
Just apply, go to the job fair(s), email directly, and wait to see. Don't quit before the fight, no matter what discouraging words are spoken to you by this site's so called "experts".
Just apply, go to the job fair(s), email directly, and wait to see. Don't quit before the fight, no matter what discouraging words are spoken to you by this site's so called "experts".
Thanks again for the feedback. Thank you for the encouragement, but I honestly have not felt discouraged by any of the advice. If anything, it has been a bit of a wake-up call to realize just how competetive these jobs are. My husband and I are in the midst of applying to individual schools and waiting for the Search application to be completed. We are excited about the possibilities. Thanks for the feedback.