My spouse and I are in our first international posting and really enjoying it. We are thinking about where we might go next. We would like to spend some time in Asia and the Middle East and are looking for some advice.
1. Should we stay at our current school for more than two years - will that make us more competitive? (We are happy here, but just don't see ourselves staying for years and years at one school.)
2. I know it's subjective, but what are some of the best schools in the ME and Asia?
3. For those who have taught there, what are some of the positives about teaching in the ME? Asia?
Thanks!
Advice please
Reply
A lot of our responses would depend on where your at now? What are your resumes like? Aside from even knowing that we really cant tell you if you should stay or go.
More competitive compared to what? If you stay at your current school indefinitely, competitiveness doesnt really matter.
How much risk are you willing to take? if your at a bottom tier school you cant do much worse. If your happy at a tier 1 school, are you prepared to accept 2 years at a school that may turn out to be a nightmare (tier 1 schools differ in support, culture, environment, workload, and social life)?
Generally speaking tenure at any school tends to exhibit a normal curve. It starts low, goes up quickly, peaks, and then falls slowly. Generally more time at one school is seen as stability. Though at a certain point if you do decide to leave, your going to be asked why your leaving after so long, and a recruiter is going to be concerned that your skill set has crystalized.
The other side to that coin is that many teachers bounce from school to school doing 2 year contracts until they are where they want to be, and then they stay, thats the typical career cycle of an IT. This also allows teachers to grow their resume and expanding it. Different schools means different PD opportunities, different cultural experience, and the opportunity to be trained in different curriculums that will give them access to the schools and place they finally want to end up.
In my experience the younger, and more inexperienced you are the more mobile you should be. The older and more experienced you are, the more settled you should be.
For the ME the only positive is the money. There isnt much to do, unless being a homebody appeals to you in which case thats a plus.
Asia is still relatively inexpensive. Schools provide housing and or generous housing allowances. Taxes are very low, and with minimal fixed expenses you can live a very high lifestyle, or save significantly. The weather is typically warmer in many (not all) places. Teachers are typically well respected in these cultures. Healthcare is very cheap.
More competitive compared to what? If you stay at your current school indefinitely, competitiveness doesnt really matter.
How much risk are you willing to take? if your at a bottom tier school you cant do much worse. If your happy at a tier 1 school, are you prepared to accept 2 years at a school that may turn out to be a nightmare (tier 1 schools differ in support, culture, environment, workload, and social life)?
Generally speaking tenure at any school tends to exhibit a normal curve. It starts low, goes up quickly, peaks, and then falls slowly. Generally more time at one school is seen as stability. Though at a certain point if you do decide to leave, your going to be asked why your leaving after so long, and a recruiter is going to be concerned that your skill set has crystalized.
The other side to that coin is that many teachers bounce from school to school doing 2 year contracts until they are where they want to be, and then they stay, thats the typical career cycle of an IT. This also allows teachers to grow their resume and expanding it. Different schools means different PD opportunities, different cultural experience, and the opportunity to be trained in different curriculums that will give them access to the schools and place they finally want to end up.
In my experience the younger, and more inexperienced you are the more mobile you should be. The older and more experienced you are, the more settled you should be.
For the ME the only positive is the money. There isnt much to do, unless being a homebody appeals to you in which case thats a plus.
Asia is still relatively inexpensive. Schools provide housing and or generous housing allowances. Taxes are very low, and with minimal fixed expenses you can live a very high lifestyle, or save significantly. The weather is typically warmer in many (not all) places. Teachers are typically well respected in these cultures. Healthcare is very cheap.
I wouldn't over-- it too much; I doubt recruiters put such a magnifying glass to whether you stayed two, three, or more years, except that an extra year or two suggests you're not just in it for the contract and will leave. Follow your instincts. If you're happy where you're at, stay a third year; it's typical for the third year to be a really good one wherever you are. If you've got itchy feet, start casting about for another place.
There is a recent thread on working/living in the ME titled Talk up the Middle East; scroll down the page to find it.
There is a recent thread on working/living in the ME titled Talk up the Middle East; scroll down the page to find it.
Staying Put
My husband and I are in the process of a few Sypke interviews. Each school commented on our longevity (4 years each at last 2 schools) and how positive it was. My opinion is that good schools want good teachers to stay and master their craft at that location. If your CV indicates hopping around after a year or two, they may assume you will do the same at their school. Schools want you to invest in them as they in you. Stay where you are for at least another year.
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RunnerGirl
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:14 pm
My school regularly shifts CVs to the 'no thanks' pile if the applicant has been bouncing around too much. Stays of two and three years do not impress. If they're balanced with longer stays at other schools, that's fine. If that's all you have, we're not interested.
The exception being, I suppose, if you only have one position so far, and are leaving that after just an initial contract, we'll still look. Not enough data to tell if you're a bouncer.
Remember you also have your pre-international employment record. If you stayed in those schools for good long stints, that counts in your favor too.
International schools are used to teachers moving on. In balance, it helps keep the school fresh. But to get that balance, we need to have the vast majority of our teachers stay in any given year. Good international schools are shooting for overall turnover of less than 10% per year. We can't get that if we have too many people moving every 2-3 years.
The exception being, I suppose, if you only have one position so far, and are leaving that after just an initial contract, we'll still look. Not enough data to tell if you're a bouncer.
Remember you also have your pre-international employment record. If you stayed in those schools for good long stints, that counts in your favor too.
International schools are used to teachers moving on. In balance, it helps keep the school fresh. But to get that balance, we need to have the vast majority of our teachers stay in any given year. Good international schools are shooting for overall turnover of less than 10% per year. We can't get that if we have too many people moving every 2-3 years.
This is what worries me. The longest I've stayed at any school has been 2 years. I just can't seem to find a school that isn't crap. I started out as ESL and typically those are 1 or 2 year contracts. I've moved on since then and the school I'm at now is okay (it's IB) but it's just too damn cold up here in northern China (-27 outside as I write this) so after my 2-year contract is up this year I'll leave. I would really like to find somewhere more permanent but I'm afraid that schools will look at my CV and toss it aside because I've not stayed long at other schools.
Reply
I wouldnt worry,recruiters know generally where the majority of most teachers want to end up. Your not going to be penalized for ambition and wanting to grow your resume and develop as a teacher. Only admins who know that there school isnt on any teachers final destination list perpetuate the myth that you have to stay in the lower tier schools for longer then two years, or youll be a "hopper", and never get hired anywhere else, your career will be over, the end. Its just fear mongering. You only get when journey in this life, dont let a school thats hemorrhaging staff and trying to control turnover convince you, that leaving is somehow a deficiency on your part. The really great schools dont have to worry about turnover, no one wants to leave.
Re: Reply
[quote="PsyGuy"]Only admins who know that there school isnt on any teachers final destination list perpetuate the myth that you have to stay in the lower tier schools for longer then two years, or youll be a "hopper"[/quote]
With all due respect, bullocks.
My school has been hitting the 10% mark (on average) for 4 or 5 years running.
And we didn't get that way by hiring hoppers.
A hopper will probably always be able to find a job. The problem for hoppers is not finding a position, but finding a position worth taking. The more you hop, the more likely your next post will be a tough one, inspiring more hopping. So take care. It's a downward spiral.
If you've got two years in what we know is a bad school/location, we'll consider your application. It can happen to anyone.
If you've got two years in a bad school, followed by two years in a better school with a bad climate (or some similar scenario), there might still be a slot for you here, if we see a good CV overall and some hint that you actually want to find a place to stay longer.
But if you've got three hops in a row, that's an automatic concern, and you're not likely to get an interview. Three consecutive hops is not easy to explain in any way that recommends the applicant.
So, durianfan, if you can't stay where you are now for at least another year, I really recommend that wherever you go next, stick it out for 4 years or more. You've got to show that you've got staying power.
With all due respect, bullocks.
My school has been hitting the 10% mark (on average) for 4 or 5 years running.
And we didn't get that way by hiring hoppers.
A hopper will probably always be able to find a job. The problem for hoppers is not finding a position, but finding a position worth taking. The more you hop, the more likely your next post will be a tough one, inspiring more hopping. So take care. It's a downward spiral.
If you've got two years in what we know is a bad school/location, we'll consider your application. It can happen to anyone.
If you've got two years in a bad school, followed by two years in a better school with a bad climate (or some similar scenario), there might still be a slot for you here, if we see a good CV overall and some hint that you actually want to find a place to stay longer.
But if you've got three hops in a row, that's an automatic concern, and you're not likely to get an interview. Three consecutive hops is not easy to explain in any way that recommends the applicant.
So, durianfan, if you can't stay where you are now for at least another year, I really recommend that wherever you go next, stick it out for 4 years or more. You've got to show that you've got staying power.