Please help settle this debate...preferably in my favor
Please help settle this debate...preferably in my favor
I just finished updating my resume. In an effort to keep it to one page, I've only focused on my teaching experience, education and certifications and have opted to include other experiences that may inform my teaching in my cover letter. I just asked a friend to look over my resume and he suggested that I forgo the one page rule and include my other experience because "principals probably aren't going to read the cover letter anyway". Should I stick to the one pager and put supplementary information in the cover letter or try to include everything in my resume?
Advice
Where are you in your career? Are you a newbie, less then 5 years, more then 5 years, applying for admin/leadership position?
Your resume should be complete, in relation to the position. So teaching experience, education, certifications, and other CLOSELY related information should be on your resume. If your an admin or veteran teacher you should have 2 pages. If your new or still around entry level it should be about a page.
A 2 sided resume is very acceptable at a fair. Your resume is more an introduction anyway, recruiters will review your SEARCH profile before an interview. During sign up they will mostly look at just the first page. Keep your 1st page the way it is, and add the less priority teaching/education information on page 2. Cover letters arent used so much at fairs, but when applying through email you copy/paste your cover letter into the body of the email.
Your resume should be complete, in relation to the position. So teaching experience, education, certifications, and other CLOSELY related information should be on your resume. If your an admin or veteran teacher you should have 2 pages. If your new or still around entry level it should be about a page.
A 2 sided resume is very acceptable at a fair. Your resume is more an introduction anyway, recruiters will review your SEARCH profile before an interview. During sign up they will mostly look at just the first page. Keep your 1st page the way it is, and add the less priority teaching/education information on page 2. Cover letters arent used so much at fairs, but when applying through email you copy/paste your cover letter into the body of the email.
Re: Advice
[quote="PsyGuy"]Where are you in your career? Are you a newbie, less then 5 years, more then 5 years, applying for admin/leadership position?
Your resume should be complete, in relation to the position. So teaching experience, education, certifications, and other CLOSELY related information should be on your resume. If your an admin or veteran teacher you should have 2 pages. If your new or still around entry level it should be about a page.
A 2 sided resume is very acceptable at a fair. Your resume is more an introduction anyway, recruiters will review your SEARCH profile before an interview. During sign up they will mostly look at just the first page. Keep your 1st page the way it is, and add the less priority teaching/education information on page 2. Cover letters arent used so much at fairs, but when applying through email you copy/paste your cover letter into the body of the email.[/quote]
This is my 5th year of teaching and aside from that I've pretty much just been teaching and doing a lot of community service outside of work. For my Search application would it make sense to stick to the one pager and then include the other information in my bio?
Your resume should be complete, in relation to the position. So teaching experience, education, certifications, and other CLOSELY related information should be on your resume. If your an admin or veteran teacher you should have 2 pages. If your new or still around entry level it should be about a page.
A 2 sided resume is very acceptable at a fair. Your resume is more an introduction anyway, recruiters will review your SEARCH profile before an interview. During sign up they will mostly look at just the first page. Keep your 1st page the way it is, and add the less priority teaching/education information on page 2. Cover letters arent used so much at fairs, but when applying through email you copy/paste your cover letter into the body of the email.[/quote]
This is my 5th year of teaching and aside from that I've pretty much just been teaching and doing a lot of community service outside of work. For my Search application would it make sense to stick to the one pager and then include the other information in my bio?
Comment
So has your 5 years experience been all at 1 or 2 schools? I take it the rest of your resume as far as education is a Bachelors degree and certification?
That sounds like a 1 page resume to me. Whats the 2nd page information? Is that all your volunteer and community service activities? Is it relative to the positions your applying for (could see it being relevant for a CAS coordinator position).
It really depends what this extra experience is? Recruiters generally dont read the bio section. So anything included their is likely to be overlooked.
That sounds like a 1 page resume to me. Whats the 2nd page information? Is that all your volunteer and community service activities? Is it relative to the positions your applying for (could see it being relevant for a CAS coordinator position).
It really depends what this extra experience is? Recruiters generally dont read the bio section. So anything included their is likely to be overlooked.
Dave, Dave, Dave
"Recruiters generally dont (sic) read the bio section. So anything included their (sic) is likely to be overlooked."
Hi yelsol:
This is total nonsense. Of course you should include such information, and of course recruiters will read it. You may think that we administrators are as lazy as we are stupid, but believe me most of us are capable of digesting two pages of a resume. And the bio section is really important if you include things in there that are meaningful and relevant and interesting. Good schools want to hire real people, and a well written bio section tells us about you, the person.
Dave Jaw, please stop generalizing - especially in areas where you have no experience. You are not a recruiter and never have been.
Hi yelsol:
This is total nonsense. Of course you should include such information, and of course recruiters will read it. You may think that we administrators are as lazy as we are stupid, but believe me most of us are capable of digesting two pages of a resume. And the bio section is really important if you include things in there that are meaningful and relevant and interesting. Good schools want to hire real people, and a well written bio section tells us about you, the person.
Dave Jaw, please stop generalizing - especially in areas where you have no experience. You are not a recruiter and never have been.
Comment
No, Recruiters don't read the Bio. It might as well be the notes section. Schools and recruiters care about your education, certification and experience. Your Bio isn't important, and its very likely to not be seen. If you have relevant information it should be elsewhere in your Search profile.
Walter can't comment if this information should be in your résumé if he doesn't know what the information is. If your résumé needs to be 2 pages, then it should be two pages.
Recruiters aren't lazy, they just have too many demands on their time. Whether your waiting in line at sign up, or emailing a résumé. Recruiters can get 100s of applications for a position. They generally scan the first page.
Recruiters are looking at your profile to decide if you can do the job, if they decide to get to know you they will move to the interview stage.
The personal humanistic side of you, all that Bio material should go in your cover letter. Your Search profile isn't a dating site, its not linkedin. This is your professional business side of you, not a "we want to know everything about you".
It's disingenuous to suggest that recruiters and heads will spend anything longer then 30 seconds reviewing your résumé. RecruitersSearch the profiles based on your teaching preference.they look at your years of experience, education, and what your certified in. In other words, what you have taught and what you can teach, that's it.
As usual, Walter doesn't know what he thinks he knows. He's a PsyGuy nemesis who had a administrator agenda with schools interests
Walter can't comment if this information should be in your résumé if he doesn't know what the information is. If your résumé needs to be 2 pages, then it should be two pages.
Recruiters aren't lazy, they just have too many demands on their time. Whether your waiting in line at sign up, or emailing a résumé. Recruiters can get 100s of applications for a position. They generally scan the first page.
Recruiters are looking at your profile to decide if you can do the job, if they decide to get to know you they will move to the interview stage.
The personal humanistic side of you, all that Bio material should go in your cover letter. Your Search profile isn't a dating site, its not linkedin. This is your professional business side of you, not a "we want to know everything about you".
It's disingenuous to suggest that recruiters and heads will spend anything longer then 30 seconds reviewing your résumé. RecruitersSearch the profiles based on your teaching preference.they look at your years of experience, education, and what your certified in. In other words, what you have taught and what you can teach, that's it.
As usual, Walter doesn't know what he thinks he knows. He's a PsyGuy nemesis who had a administrator agenda with schools interests
Delusional Dave
Hi yelsol:
You should believe whomever you prefer. Dave Jaw has had six jobs in seven years and obviously has a lot of experience in trying to find work. I have been to over 100 recruitment fairs as a school head and have a lot of experience in trying to find teachers.
Unlike Dave, I can't tell you what all recruiters do or don't do. I can tell you what I do. If I am at a fair, I spend the two days before candidates arrive looking at files. Depending on whether it's ISS or SEARCH or CIS or UNI, the method changes slightly because of the organization but essentially it's the same.
1) I look at the basic information of all of those who seem to fit the vacancy. I would rule out those who don't have as a minimum two years' experience and a teaching qualification. I would also rule out those who are obvious teacher tourists with a year here, a year there and a year elsewhere. Good schools aren't interested in dilettantes.
2) With that basic list I would then look more closely at bio information and geographical preferences. If you are filling in one of these forms, my advice is not to rule out anything in terms of location.
3) Next I look at the references to see if there any flags, and then I read the teacher statement. I look at this for form as well as content, so make sure your grammar, spelling and punctuation are up to snuff.
4) All good so far, then you join the pile of those I may want to interview.
5) I may have to review that pile and do some weeding if the number is too large.
6) Once I have a manageable list, I send a note to those candidates asking them to make an interview time with me at sign-up. If I happen to see at the fair one of their referees I do a brief confirmation of references.
7) At sign-up, there is always a line up of people wanting to make appointments. It would be very unusual if I hadn't already looked at their papers. I ask for a copy of their own resume and say I shall get back to them.
8) Depending on the impression they made at the time and the resume they hand - and if I have had any cancellations from those I asked to interview - I make an appointment.
9) This is where the resume matters. I have seen the recruitment fair version - but that's generic. It interests me how people choose to present themselves. One side of A4 with bare bones details of work and qualifications doesn't cut it for me. Of course I look at that, but I also want to get a sense of the person behind the paper.
10) So if there is anything else about you that is interesting, different, relevant, then put it down. Do you coach or play sport in any serious way? Are you a performer in any serious way? I want to know if you have any passions like this. Do you speak other languages than English? (Not HS French but maybe functional Spanish or Mandarin.)
11) Obviously if you have had a brief career, you won't be providing more than two pages. If you are mid-late career, you may have up to three. Include a photo to help me remember you.
12) Remember the old line: "You only have one chance to make a first impression."
Dave, there are few creatures sadder than the one who likes to refer to himself in the third person. Please get over this "psy guy nemesis" nonsense. I correct you because you are a fool and a fraud. There is nothing personal about it.
You should believe whomever you prefer. Dave Jaw has had six jobs in seven years and obviously has a lot of experience in trying to find work. I have been to over 100 recruitment fairs as a school head and have a lot of experience in trying to find teachers.
Unlike Dave, I can't tell you what all recruiters do or don't do. I can tell you what I do. If I am at a fair, I spend the two days before candidates arrive looking at files. Depending on whether it's ISS or SEARCH or CIS or UNI, the method changes slightly because of the organization but essentially it's the same.
1) I look at the basic information of all of those who seem to fit the vacancy. I would rule out those who don't have as a minimum two years' experience and a teaching qualification. I would also rule out those who are obvious teacher tourists with a year here, a year there and a year elsewhere. Good schools aren't interested in dilettantes.
2) With that basic list I would then look more closely at bio information and geographical preferences. If you are filling in one of these forms, my advice is not to rule out anything in terms of location.
3) Next I look at the references to see if there any flags, and then I read the teacher statement. I look at this for form as well as content, so make sure your grammar, spelling and punctuation are up to snuff.
4) All good so far, then you join the pile of those I may want to interview.
5) I may have to review that pile and do some weeding if the number is too large.
6) Once I have a manageable list, I send a note to those candidates asking them to make an interview time with me at sign-up. If I happen to see at the fair one of their referees I do a brief confirmation of references.
7) At sign-up, there is always a line up of people wanting to make appointments. It would be very unusual if I hadn't already looked at their papers. I ask for a copy of their own resume and say I shall get back to them.
8) Depending on the impression they made at the time and the resume they hand - and if I have had any cancellations from those I asked to interview - I make an appointment.
9) This is where the resume matters. I have seen the recruitment fair version - but that's generic. It interests me how people choose to present themselves. One side of A4 with bare bones details of work and qualifications doesn't cut it for me. Of course I look at that, but I also want to get a sense of the person behind the paper.
10) So if there is anything else about you that is interesting, different, relevant, then put it down. Do you coach or play sport in any serious way? Are you a performer in any serious way? I want to know if you have any passions like this. Do you speak other languages than English? (Not HS French but maybe functional Spanish or Mandarin.)
11) Obviously if you have had a brief career, you won't be providing more than two pages. If you are mid-late career, you may have up to three. Include a photo to help me remember you.
12) Remember the old line: "You only have one chance to make a first impression."
Dave, there are few creatures sadder than the one who likes to refer to himself in the third person. Please get over this "psy guy nemesis" nonsense. I correct you because you are a fool and a fraud. There is nothing personal about it.
Re: Delusional Dave
[quote="Walter"]Hi yelsol:
You should believe whomever you prefer. Dave Jaw has had six jobs in seven years and obviously has a lot of experience in trying to find work. I have been to over 100 recruitment fairs as a school head and have a lot of experience in trying to find teachers.
Unlike Dave, I can't tell you what all recruiters do or don't do. I can tell you what I do. If I am at a fair, I spend the two days before candidates arrive looking at files. Depending on whether it's ISS or SEARCH or CIS or UNI, the method changes slightly because of the organization but essentially it's the same.
[/quote]
Walter,
Thank you very much. This is very helpful. I've been teaching in the same school for the past four years so hopefully that will be in my favor. If I'm interpreting your response correctly, I should find a way to present my full self both in my resume and bio. I have one more question.
You mentioned "red flags" in references. I posted about this at some point but I'm concerned about asking my principal until I've been offered a position. I work at a small school and this results in very close relationships amongst faculty and staff, unfortunately it also results in a lot of things taken personally and a lot of gossiping etc. and I've seen other teachers who were leaving or hoping to leave get the cold shoulder for the rest of the year because of there choice. If I'm not offered a position at any school then I would continue to work at my school and try again for next year but I'm concerned about having to spend a year being glared at because of this. My current references include a college professor with whom I co-taught a class on Educational practices, the teacher who mentored me during my graduate work and teacher developer whom I've worked with since I started teaching. All of have been in my classroom over the past two years and have seen me teach. Are these sufficient? Would references that don't include the current head of school be a "red flag"? And what are some other
You should believe whomever you prefer. Dave Jaw has had six jobs in seven years and obviously has a lot of experience in trying to find work. I have been to over 100 recruitment fairs as a school head and have a lot of experience in trying to find teachers.
Unlike Dave, I can't tell you what all recruiters do or don't do. I can tell you what I do. If I am at a fair, I spend the two days before candidates arrive looking at files. Depending on whether it's ISS or SEARCH or CIS or UNI, the method changes slightly because of the organization but essentially it's the same.
[/quote]
Walter,
Thank you very much. This is very helpful. I've been teaching in the same school for the past four years so hopefully that will be in my favor. If I'm interpreting your response correctly, I should find a way to present my full self both in my resume and bio. I have one more question.
You mentioned "red flags" in references. I posted about this at some point but I'm concerned about asking my principal until I've been offered a position. I work at a small school and this results in very close relationships amongst faculty and staff, unfortunately it also results in a lot of things taken personally and a lot of gossiping etc. and I've seen other teachers who were leaving or hoping to leave get the cold shoulder for the rest of the year because of there choice. If I'm not offered a position at any school then I would continue to work at my school and try again for next year but I'm concerned about having to spend a year being glared at because of this. My current references include a college professor with whom I co-taught a class on Educational practices, the teacher who mentored me during my graduate work and teacher developer whom I've worked with since I started teaching. All of have been in my classroom over the past two years and have seen me teach. Are these sufficient? Would references that don't include the current head of school be a "red flag"? And what are some other
Comment
Most admins recruit differently then Walter. Starting in October by identifying early candidates they would basically like to poach. There are two phases of the recruiting process: Screening and Selection. In Screening your getting people into the pool, in Selection your taking people out. Most people think a recruiter chooses who to make an offer too, when in reality they are choosing the people they dont want until their is one person left. Depending on the school and position their can be a 1000 applications for a position. At that point all the applicants start looking the same when it comes to the basics of experience, education and certification. Most recruiters dont read teaching philosophies, or cover letters. They tend to be generic, and are self serving (basically they brag about what a great teacher they are). They dont give any useful information that would help you discriminate between candidates.
Schools and recruiters do look for the person behind the resume, but that happens at the interview. So many positions are gone before a fair even starts, because the recruiters knew who they wanted to talk to and only needed a brief conversation to confirm their conclusions. What recruiters are looking for in an interview is if they like you, or how well your going to fit into their school environment. Are you relaxed, enthusiastic, do you know your subject. Can you carry on a conversation without having to be prompted with questions. The best interview candidates answer all the recruiters questions without being asked.
Signup depending on the school can be a couple minutes or a few seconds. A recruiter for an undesirable school may have the time to review and read a full two pages (because no one else is waiting in line), but the schools which attract the big lines and are the most desirable have only a few brief seconds to determine if you can meet their needs and wants in a teacher, and that boils down to experience, education and certification.
References dont play as critical a role as youd think. Many teachers are given neutral or glowing references for fear of being sued. If a recruiter can actually talk to the prior head and they have a relationship thats what they will listen too, but formal letters tend to be either uninformative or misinformative.
Schools and recruiters do look for the person behind the resume, but that happens at the interview. So many positions are gone before a fair even starts, because the recruiters knew who they wanted to talk to and only needed a brief conversation to confirm their conclusions. What recruiters are looking for in an interview is if they like you, or how well your going to fit into their school environment. Are you relaxed, enthusiastic, do you know your subject. Can you carry on a conversation without having to be prompted with questions. The best interview candidates answer all the recruiters questions without being asked.
Signup depending on the school can be a couple minutes or a few seconds. A recruiter for an undesirable school may have the time to review and read a full two pages (because no one else is waiting in line), but the schools which attract the big lines and are the most desirable have only a few brief seconds to determine if you can meet their needs and wants in a teacher, and that boils down to experience, education and certification.
References dont play as critical a role as youd think. Many teachers are given neutral or glowing references for fear of being sued. If a recruiter can actually talk to the prior head and they have a relationship thats what they will listen too, but formal letters tend to be either uninformative or misinformative.
"Vanity of vanities...all is vanity."
"Most admins recruit differently then Walter."
You know, of all of the things that I find irritating about your posts, it's your complacent arrogance that really hits the spot. Tell us how you justify such a claim? Tell us how many administrators you know so well that you have this information. Tell us how many recruitment fairs have you attended
a) as a candidate
b) as a recruiter
Please provide this information so we can judge whether your experience allows to say these things.
Yelsol, please make your resume sufficiently comprehensive to give a portrait of you rather than just a bare outline of qualifications and experience. Two pages maximum if you're in the early stages of your career; three pages if you are mid-career.
I don't know of a school head who doesn't look at confidential references at the recruitment fairs and who wouldn't look for flags in terms of scores that your referees check against the various criteria. Recruiters also look at the brief narrative comments for tell-tale signs of concern. I am very much less interested in references that you also have copies of. You should know that I would be surprised if at least one of your references didn't come from one of your current administrators. Hard to understand your current principal being so immature as to take your decision to leave so personally.
You know, of all of the things that I find irritating about your posts, it's your complacent arrogance that really hits the spot. Tell us how you justify such a claim? Tell us how many administrators you know so well that you have this information. Tell us how many recruitment fairs have you attended
a) as a candidate
b) as a recruiter
Please provide this information so we can judge whether your experience allows to say these things.
Yelsol, please make your resume sufficiently comprehensive to give a portrait of you rather than just a bare outline of qualifications and experience. Two pages maximum if you're in the early stages of your career; three pages if you are mid-career.
I don't know of a school head who doesn't look at confidential references at the recruitment fairs and who wouldn't look for flags in terms of scores that your referees check against the various criteria. Recruiters also look at the brief narrative comments for tell-tale signs of concern. I am very much less interested in references that you also have copies of. You should know that I would be surprised if at least one of your references didn't come from one of your current administrators. Hard to understand your current principal being so immature as to take your decision to leave so personally.
Reply
Please return to my post and review it carefully. There are no "letters" as part of your Search/ISS profile for a recruiter to review at a fair. The agency sends a "survey" to your references, as such these arent FORMAL letters of reference (notice the emphasis on formal, and that these surveys/document do not prescribe to the format of a "letter").
I do appreciate your addressing the topic though, as its an important distinction. Closed letters are those that are submitted "blindly" to those requesting them. You typically sign a waiver too any access to examine them. References typically feel more comfortable being candid in these types of references, but your references know that letters do get exposed, and an associate will typically comment on if a letter is positive, neutral, or negative, which still opens the writer of the letter to possible problems/legal issues. They are however considered more reliable then open letters of reference.
An open letter of reference is when that you receive directly or is provided to a requester on your behalf, that you have examined, and possibly even consulted on the letters contents. They are not relied on very much by recruiters and admins.
What a recruiter and admin really wants and will do if possible is contact the reference preferably by phone or email and discuss the candidate directly, this depends on the relationship of the two administrators of course.
The general guidelines as written earlier are 1 page for entry level, 2 pages for mid career, and 3 for administrators.
Recruiters and admins dont read narratives, as discussed earlier. The Bio section of your Search profile is largely wasted space. Cover letters as well, are typically skipped, as was written earlier, they are generally self serving and generic (They get it your a great teacher). Recruiters have a very small limited amount of time, and these activities just use energy better focused on the priorities (experience, education, certification). Its disingenuous of Walter to suggest that any amount of literary skill can compensate for deficiencies in one of the above factors. It doesnt matter what you say if I need an IB DIP physics teacher and you've only taught middle school general science. If I want teachers with 5+ years experience, and you only have 2, nothing you say in your bio, teaching philosophy or cover letter is going to make up for that. Its ego to think that whatever is special about you is special enough for a recruiter to think "WOW this person is such a super hero of a teacher it doesnt matter what their resume is, I want to hire this person".
I do appreciate your addressing the topic though, as its an important distinction. Closed letters are those that are submitted "blindly" to those requesting them. You typically sign a waiver too any access to examine them. References typically feel more comfortable being candid in these types of references, but your references know that letters do get exposed, and an associate will typically comment on if a letter is positive, neutral, or negative, which still opens the writer of the letter to possible problems/legal issues. They are however considered more reliable then open letters of reference.
An open letter of reference is when that you receive directly or is provided to a requester on your behalf, that you have examined, and possibly even consulted on the letters contents. They are not relied on very much by recruiters and admins.
What a recruiter and admin really wants and will do if possible is contact the reference preferably by phone or email and discuss the candidate directly, this depends on the relationship of the two administrators of course.
The general guidelines as written earlier are 1 page for entry level, 2 pages for mid career, and 3 for administrators.
Recruiters and admins dont read narratives, as discussed earlier. The Bio section of your Search profile is largely wasted space. Cover letters as well, are typically skipped, as was written earlier, they are generally self serving and generic (They get it your a great teacher). Recruiters have a very small limited amount of time, and these activities just use energy better focused on the priorities (experience, education, certification). Its disingenuous of Walter to suggest that any amount of literary skill can compensate for deficiencies in one of the above factors. It doesnt matter what you say if I need an IB DIP physics teacher and you've only taught middle school general science. If I want teachers with 5+ years experience, and you only have 2, nothing you say in your bio, teaching philosophy or cover letter is going to make up for that. Its ego to think that whatever is special about you is special enough for a recruiter to think "WOW this person is such a super hero of a teacher it doesnt matter what their resume is, I want to hire this person".
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BookshelfAmy
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:21 pm
Thank you all...I think what I'm taking from this is that different administrators will review the application differently so I should make sure to fully represent myself in every aspect of the application process.
Walter...It is tough to imagine and in my principal's defense she is incredibly dedicated to our students. I should say that I work in the public school system in the States where leaving schools is usually seen as a sign of unhappiness in your current situation unlike the international school circuit where leaving schools may be a sign of unhappiness but may also just be a sign of wanting to move on to a different country. I had to comfort a coworker last year who was moving to another state to pursue a relationship and was called out openly in a meeting and made to feel guilty because she was putting her relationship before her commitment to the kids. I realize that the guilt trip comes from a good place but it's a reality nonetheless and a very uncomfortable one if you're on that side.
Walter...It is tough to imagine and in my principal's defense she is incredibly dedicated to our students. I should say that I work in the public school system in the States where leaving schools is usually seen as a sign of unhappiness in your current situation unlike the international school circuit where leaving schools may be a sign of unhappiness but may also just be a sign of wanting to move on to a different country. I had to comfort a coworker last year who was moving to another state to pursue a relationship and was called out openly in a meeting and made to feel guilty because she was putting her relationship before her commitment to the kids. I realize that the guilt trip comes from a good place but it's a reality nonetheless and a very uncomfortable one if you're on that side.