HKIS vs. Singapore American School
-
grandsmiles
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:09 am
HKIS vs. Singapore American School
We are looking at and have interviews with both of these schools in SE Asia. What are the pros and cons of each school? Does anyone have any specific information about the new teacher evaluation system at HKIS and how it is linked to salary?
You are going to find it hard to find someone who has taught at both. I have taught at SAS, and worked with people who came from HKIS. You can also search the forum for impressions of both places and draw your own conclusion. I can't address the teacher eval system.
Having taught at SAS before, I'd go back in a second. It's demanding, pays well and you are treated as a professional.
For what it's worth, with what I've heard/read/talked to friends who were there- about HKIS, I'd have doubts (compensation, administration, religious affiliation, housing, turnover). If I had the choice between the two- SAS easily.
Having taught at SAS before, I'd go back in a second. It's demanding, pays well and you are treated as a professional.
For what it's worth, with what I've heard/read/talked to friends who were there- about HKIS, I'd have doubts (compensation, administration, religious affiliation, housing, turnover). If I had the choice between the two- SAS easily.
-
grandsmiles
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:09 am
Thank you for the feedback, JISAlum. Can you speak at all to Singapore as a city to live in? We have a 5 year old daughter who would be tagging along, too. I have heard two schools of thought: it is great for young families in one camp, and then it's a very "adult" city in the other camp. And what about the weather? Everyone talks about the heat and humidity to a degree that I'm wondering if we'd ever want or feel comfortable doing anything outside...
It would be a great city for a 5 year old. You're going to make many friends also with young children. It's easy to get around- public transportation is good. You can buy a car if needed (we bought one for $13k SG. Sold it two years later for $10.5sg).
SAS has a great preschool program- one of the best I've known. There are a variety of opinions you'll hear of Singapore; it's boring, it's a mall and all that. I grew up in Singapore, and taught there. It is what you make of it. You can still find the 'old' Singapore if you want. Yes it can sometimes get repetitious, but then I challenged myself to go find something different. Also, you can always fly out somewhere. We used to do cheap vacations to Malaysia.
Get a place up near Woodlands and you'll be close to school with an easy commute. We lived near Holland Village to be near more stuff to do. Either way it was great.
About the weather- you'll adjust. The first month I lost 20 pounds. I run though. Growing up, I wore jeans and got cold when it rained. I loved the rain and still miss that. It's all relative. Just don't move there and spend all your time in air-conditioning. Get out, that's the only way you'll get used to it. I loved our house in that it was open. I hated air-conditioning. My students at SAS would get out at recess and just go hell-bent in the middle of the day. None of them melted.
One issue was my wife has allergies- the mold was a problem until she found the right medication.
Also, as a parent, it's real nice when it's January and you're not stuck inside because of snow and can take your 5 year old out.
Neither of your two concerns would come even close to preventing me from taking a job there is I was in your shoes.
Also, if your 5 year old is going to go to SAS, David Hoss is a great principal. One of the best.....
SAS has a great preschool program- one of the best I've known. There are a variety of opinions you'll hear of Singapore; it's boring, it's a mall and all that. I grew up in Singapore, and taught there. It is what you make of it. You can still find the 'old' Singapore if you want. Yes it can sometimes get repetitious, but then I challenged myself to go find something different. Also, you can always fly out somewhere. We used to do cheap vacations to Malaysia.
Get a place up near Woodlands and you'll be close to school with an easy commute. We lived near Holland Village to be near more stuff to do. Either way it was great.
About the weather- you'll adjust. The first month I lost 20 pounds. I run though. Growing up, I wore jeans and got cold when it rained. I loved the rain and still miss that. It's all relative. Just don't move there and spend all your time in air-conditioning. Get out, that's the only way you'll get used to it. I loved our house in that it was open. I hated air-conditioning. My students at SAS would get out at recess and just go hell-bent in the middle of the day. None of them melted.
One issue was my wife has allergies- the mold was a problem until she found the right medication.
Also, as a parent, it's real nice when it's January and you're not stuck inside because of snow and can take your 5 year old out.
Neither of your two concerns would come even close to preventing me from taking a job there is I was in your shoes.
Also, if your 5 year old is going to go to SAS, David Hoss is a great principal. One of the best.....
HKIS is in a strange location in HK. Hard to get to and there are two campuses. You have to have a car or take a bus to get to the secondary campus. You also, depending on what you teach, will be expected to teach religious studies. If that doesn't bother you then you might like it. Hong Kong is crowded. When I lived there it bothered me. HK is also more polluted (thanks China) then Singers.
SAS is HUGE. It is one of the biggest international schools by population. Singapore is not the most interesting city. It is clean though.
Travel ops abound. SAS has new leadership this year. Not sure how that is going.
Financially you should do fine at both places depending on your spending habits.
Good luck
SAS is HUGE. It is one of the biggest international schools by population. Singapore is not the most interesting city. It is clean though.
Travel ops abound. SAS has new leadership this year. Not sure how that is going.
Financially you should do fine at both places depending on your spending habits.
Good luck
Reply
Its not even a contest id take SA over HKIS. Singapore is very family friendly, its the safest modern country ive been in. Sentosa is great for the kids on the weekends, and there is an amazing blend of cultures. Though you have to basically like living in/ata mall. Thats what its like to live in Singapore. SAS is a great school.
HKIS has some philosophy issues, and their admins are less accommodating, the school is also in a very inconvenient part of the island, and the school is just less helpful. HK is more expensive then Singapore in the Short term, but they average out the longer you spend their.
HKIS has some philosophy issues, and their admins are less accommodating, the school is also in a very inconvenient part of the island, and the school is just less helpful. HK is more expensive then Singapore in the Short term, but they average out the longer you spend their.
-
grandsmiles
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:09 am
Thanks for the great feedback. The response seems to be really positive for SAS, but I have to admit that the weather scares the crap out of us. We currently live in the Pacific NW (USA), so we're used to rain, but it honestly seems like it's 90 degrees and raining the entire time there... Is that not true? How does one spend time outdoors and not get just drenched?
@JISAlum - You said that you bought a car for a reasonable price, but the information we've received is that it is incredibly difficult and expensive to do so... How did you go about it? Was this just the cost for the car and not the certificate entitling you to simply own the car?
@Glerky - Do you know what levels require teachers to teach religious studies at HKIS? We are both elementary level - teacher/reading specialist/literacy coach...
@PsyGuy - Can you tell me what Sentosa is?
Once again, thanks for the great feedback - it really helps in making such a big decision...
@JISAlum - You said that you bought a car for a reasonable price, but the information we've received is that it is incredibly difficult and expensive to do so... How did you go about it? Was this just the cost for the car and not the certificate entitling you to simply own the car?
@Glerky - Do you know what levels require teachers to teach religious studies at HKIS? We are both elementary level - teacher/reading specialist/literacy coach...
@PsyGuy - Can you tell me what Sentosa is?
Once again, thanks for the great feedback - it really helps in making such a big decision...
Comment
I didnt know and still dont know anyone who owns a car in Singapore. Its very expensive. You have to apply for a "right of ownership" permit which basically allows you to buy or import a car. there are only a limited number issued each year, and the cost of the permit is about equal to 3 times the value of the car. In addition petrol, and insurance are very very high. Most roads are toll roads and its not uncommon to pass several zones in a casual drive (you need a transponder for your car that collects the data and bills you). I dont know why youd want a car anyway, everything is convenient and the metro system is superb.
The heat is really bad, you get use to it, but no joke its bad. Singapore is about 80 miles away from the equator. Its hot all year round, seriously theres summer, wet summer, and death valley summer. The humidity is very high as well, so its like being in a steam room all the time. Most places blast the A/C so once you get use to the heat and go inside its freezing.
Sentosa is fun park experience. Its got a great beach, some aquarium and animal exibits, golf, some waterpark type rides, and some restaurants. You can check it out here:
http://www.sentosa.com.sg/en/
There arent really any public beaches in Singapore, they are mostly private /members only, so people go to Sentosa to go to the beach basically.
HKIS has religious studies at all grade levels though its integrated at the primary level. Dont kid yourself, this is a christian school.
The heat is really bad, you get use to it, but no joke its bad. Singapore is about 80 miles away from the equator. Its hot all year round, seriously theres summer, wet summer, and death valley summer. The humidity is very high as well, so its like being in a steam room all the time. Most places blast the A/C so once you get use to the heat and go inside its freezing.
Sentosa is fun park experience. Its got a great beach, some aquarium and animal exibits, golf, some waterpark type rides, and some restaurants. You can check it out here:
http://www.sentosa.com.sg/en/
There arent really any public beaches in Singapore, they are mostly private /members only, so people go to Sentosa to go to the beach basically.
HKIS has religious studies at all grade levels though its integrated at the primary level. Dont kid yourself, this is a christian school.
In terms of car ownership- yes NEW cars are very expensive. , and PsyGuy is correct, no one buys a NEW car. However many people, including teachers, buy USED cars. That is what we did- as did other teachers/staff.
We car-pooled every morning to get to school from where we lived. Yes, we could have taken public transportation, but that would have been 2 buses and the train- or an expensive taxi. Plus, getting taxis in Singapore when it's raining it nearly impossible at times.
COE's, or Certificate of Entitlements are the 'right of ownership' papers that were mentioned. These are indeed purchased through a bidding system, not unlike stock. However when you buy a used car, they come with the vehicle. A COE is good for a set time (10 years I believe), and you can renew once. Once the COE is expired the second time, the vehicle is removed from the road.
So the car we bought at the time was $13k. The COE had 5-6 left- I don't remember. We used it for two years and sold it for $10k. $1k per year was worth it for us.
Having a car makes a big difference. It allow to so see parts of the island that you otherwise didn't. Some teacher had cars, some did not. When we were there, during our orientation, a local used car dealer was catering to teachers by selling them Honda Civics for a set price. It wasn't bad- you just needed to adjust your expectations. You were going to pay a cost for a used car that you would pay for a new one in the States. However you could be assured that the resale value would be high.
Petrol was indeed high. Insurance was very low- I was surprised at that.
We car-pooled every morning to get to school from where we lived. Yes, we could have taken public transportation, but that would have been 2 buses and the train- or an expensive taxi. Plus, getting taxis in Singapore when it's raining it nearly impossible at times.
COE's, or Certificate of Entitlements are the 'right of ownership' papers that were mentioned. These are indeed purchased through a bidding system, not unlike stock. However when you buy a used car, they come with the vehicle. A COE is good for a set time (10 years I believe), and you can renew once. Once the COE is expired the second time, the vehicle is removed from the road.
So the car we bought at the time was $13k. The COE had 5-6 left- I don't remember. We used it for two years and sold it for $10k. $1k per year was worth it for us.
Having a car makes a big difference. It allow to so see parts of the island that you otherwise didn't. Some teacher had cars, some did not. When we were there, during our orientation, a local used car dealer was catering to teachers by selling them Honda Civics for a set price. It wasn't bad- you just needed to adjust your expectations. You were going to pay a cost for a used car that you would pay for a new one in the States. However you could be assured that the resale value would be high.
Petrol was indeed high. Insurance was very low- I was surprised at that.
The weather forecast for Singapore is always cloudy and rainy on any website but rest assured it's not always the case.
HKIS will question your spiritual journey, so be prepared. After interviewing with them I came out of it with just a weird impression of the place. Lot fo cliquey-ness.
I've been to SAS campus many times and know a lot of people that work there. They're doing good stuff. I would choose SAS. You would have to live near their campus, which is far from the madding crowd, but that's a good thing.
HKIS will question your spiritual journey, so be prepared. After interviewing with them I came out of it with just a weird impression of the place. Lot fo cliquey-ness.
I've been to SAS campus many times and know a lot of people that work there. They're doing good stuff. I would choose SAS. You would have to live near their campus, which is far from the madding crowd, but that's a good thing.
Comment
@JISalum
Yes the car is cheaper, but your still overpaying for it because of the COE. That cost just gets passed on to you. So that 6 year old Honda thats only worth $4K costs you $12K, which is still a 3 fold increase above its actual value.
*Getting on Soap Box* Seriously, if there is one country (yes a whole country) that should be advocated for NOT needing a car, its Singapore. Its an island, and a small island. The public metro system is amazingly efficient and convenient. It rivals the public transportation available in Tokyo. The cost is also subsidized by the government (thats why car ownership is so high).
You can hire a car to take you anywhere in Singapore that may not be easily accessible. About the only way I see a car being practical is if you have a family of 4 and you all come and go to school everyday and you love a long distance away from school.
Yes the car is cheaper, but your still overpaying for it because of the COE. That cost just gets passed on to you. So that 6 year old Honda thats only worth $4K costs you $12K, which is still a 3 fold increase above its actual value.
*Getting on Soap Box* Seriously, if there is one country (yes a whole country) that should be advocated for NOT needing a car, its Singapore. Its an island, and a small island. The public metro system is amazingly efficient and convenient. It rivals the public transportation available in Tokyo. The cost is also subsidized by the government (thats why car ownership is so high).
You can hire a car to take you anywhere in Singapore that may not be easily accessible. About the only way I see a car being practical is if you have a family of 4 and you all come and go to school everyday and you love a long distance away from school.
I taught at SAS as well and had a great experience there. I worked with fabulous, professional teachers and was treated as a professional as well. You have all the resources you could possibly need; too much actually. It could be a bit overwhelming. The students were great. As a parent I would be thrilled for my kids to go there.
The weather is horrible, horrible, horrible. I actually started to hate it more and more the longer I was there. I really feel that it affected my enjoyment of the city itself. There were a number of days when we thought we'd go explore a park or a garden or a temple, then stepped outside and were just too miserable to continue and decided to go to a movie instead because at least it was air conditioned. You do get used to it, to a point, but I just got sick of getting covered in sweat as soon as I stepped outside, and getting all sweaty after just climbing a few stairs. It does rain all the time, but that usually cools things off. The rain got old for me as well though because it always seemed to start to pour right as I was trying to head home, which meant a soggy walk to the MRT station or waiting ages for a taxi that you paid an arm and a leg for.
Owning a car is absurdly expensive, to the point that many people literally never even consider it. Yes, you can buy a used car, but regulations mean you can only keep cars until they get to a certain age and then they won't pass inspection anymore, so if you buy a cheaper used car you're just going to have to replace it with another again in a few years. Yes, the public transport system is extensive, clean, reliable and reasonably priced - however the MRT stops running after midnight so if you're planning on a late night out you need to figure out the buses, change buses a time or two and wait for them, etc. Taxis are an option but again, not cheap, and you can wait a long, long time if it's late or raining.
But Singapore is an easy place to live in many other ways; everyone speaks English, you can drink the water, it's beautiful, there is a lot to see and do, it's a great travel hub, you have excellent health care. There are a lot of reasons why people usually stay so long. If I got an offer from them, I would take it. You would probably regret it if you didn't, just know what the downsides are going to be.
The weather is horrible, horrible, horrible. I actually started to hate it more and more the longer I was there. I really feel that it affected my enjoyment of the city itself. There were a number of days when we thought we'd go explore a park or a garden or a temple, then stepped outside and were just too miserable to continue and decided to go to a movie instead because at least it was air conditioned. You do get used to it, to a point, but I just got sick of getting covered in sweat as soon as I stepped outside, and getting all sweaty after just climbing a few stairs. It does rain all the time, but that usually cools things off. The rain got old for me as well though because it always seemed to start to pour right as I was trying to head home, which meant a soggy walk to the MRT station or waiting ages for a taxi that you paid an arm and a leg for.
Owning a car is absurdly expensive, to the point that many people literally never even consider it. Yes, you can buy a used car, but regulations mean you can only keep cars until they get to a certain age and then they won't pass inspection anymore, so if you buy a cheaper used car you're just going to have to replace it with another again in a few years. Yes, the public transport system is extensive, clean, reliable and reasonably priced - however the MRT stops running after midnight so if you're planning on a late night out you need to figure out the buses, change buses a time or two and wait for them, etc. Taxis are an option but again, not cheap, and you can wait a long, long time if it's late or raining.
But Singapore is an easy place to live in many other ways; everyone speaks English, you can drink the water, it's beautiful, there is a lot to see and do, it's a great travel hub, you have excellent health care. There are a lot of reasons why people usually stay so long. If I got an offer from them, I would take it. You would probably regret it if you didn't, just know what the downsides are going to be.
Re: Comment
[quote="PsyGuy"]@JISalum
Yes the car is cheaper, but your still overpaying for it because of the COE. That cost just gets passed on to you. So that 6 year old Honda thats only worth $4K costs you $12K, which is still a 3 fold increase above its actual value..[/quote]
Correct, vehicles are not cheap in Singapore- that is clear to anyone who has lived or visited there. However teachers do purchase used cars and some find them useful- especially ones with families.
Yes the car is cheaper, but your still overpaying for it because of the COE. That cost just gets passed on to you. So that 6 year old Honda thats only worth $4K costs you $12K, which is still a 3 fold increase above its actual value..[/quote]
Correct, vehicles are not cheap in Singapore- that is clear to anyone who has lived or visited there. However teachers do purchase used cars and some find them useful- especially ones with families.
Psyguy stole my question but he is correct in that it is integrated.
When I was interviewed there a few years back (read a long time ago) the first thing I was shown was a copy of the mission statement which had several points. I was only asked to speak to the one dealing with religion. Next I was told how it wasn't really that religious. It is.
When I was interviewed there a few years back (read a long time ago) the first thing I was shown was a copy of the mission statement which had several points. I was only asked to speak to the one dealing with religion. Next I was told how it wasn't really that religious. It is.
Another thing to consider about Singapore (and I do not mean this in a racist way, just a - wow- I was surprised way) is that there are some places where there are so many expats you don't even feel like you are in Asia. During my time there, I felt that if I had spent all my time at certain shopping malls or at Clark Quay or at Robertson Quay, all I would have seen was Caucasian people from the US, UK & Australia. If you plan to move to Singapore & spend all your time at these types of places- why move overseas at all? At least in Hong Kong you feel like you moved far away from home.