Hello,
I am an elementary school principal with 15 years of experience. I am looking to go international and my wife will be a trailing spouse. Considering that I have about 20 more years of work ahead, the goal is to live in 5-6 different countries by the time I retire. I have a couple of questions and comments.
Do principals ever find themselves in this forum? I did a search on "principal" and mostly found people liking or not liking theirs. Any good threads I should look into?
I read most of the reviews on the paysite and while I think it gives good info on what it is like to live in the different cities, it sounds like most people have an ax to grind with their former school. This forum seems much more informative.
In my search so far, it looks like I am going to have to wait until most of the people move around before they will look for people without international experience. Is that the case?
Are the Tier 1,2,3 school ratings based on the particular city or about the actual school itself? Is there a formal list? I have cast a pretty wide net so far.....
What are the least desirable locations? Most places look desirable to me. My wife has a couple of limits; Africa (stability), China and Russia, and the Middle East (human rights). While those are big limits, the northern Stans could be in as well as Mongolia, India, SE Asia, Asia, South America,Western/Eastern Europe, ... Are any of those considered more difficult posts? I would assume my wife's concerns about those areas might change once we get overseas and experience what it is like. She has lived abroad in Italy for a year while in college, so I am sure she will be able to enjoy the living abroad lifestyle.
QSI showed a bit of interest and I have fairly extensive experience in the Quality/Mastery systems. I heard they are good and reliable, is that accurate? I also heard something on the pay side of the site about a christian slant they have. Would Christianity be a requirement for employment?
Thanks in advance for any info you might have....
American Admin trying to get on the circuit
American Admin trying to get on the circuit
Last edited by hikerak on Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think you should reevaluate your search criteria. Russia is no longer Communist, certainly no more than Eastern Europe or many of the stans and besides that seems like a silly criteria. I have lived and taught in 2 current communist countries as well as a former communist country and while many things might give me pause on whether I would teach there, the form of government isn't one of them. In fact, if Africa gives you pause because of stability reasons, then China should be on the upside.
I never felt the Christian influence while working for QSI, but one thing you need to be aware of is that many decisions are not school based and its not like the decisions are being made around the corner at the board office. As an admin this would drive me crazy and it did bother several friends of mine who worked for QSI as admin. If that doesn't bother you or you can live with it then QSI might be a good place to get your feet wet. However, don't believe though that the big boy schools don't hire straight out of the states, they do so don't write them off.
I never felt the Christian influence while working for QSI, but one thing you need to be aware of is that many decisions are not school based and its not like the decisions are being made around the corner at the board office. As an admin this would drive me crazy and it did bother several friends of mine who worked for QSI as admin. If that doesn't bother you or you can live with it then QSI might be a good place to get your feet wet. However, don't believe though that the big boy schools don't hire straight out of the states, they do so don't write them off.
Overhere: Thanks for the response. I wholeheartedly agree with your comment about OUR criteria. I am only half of the equation :D A happy home requires a lot of compromise. I hope to keep my happy home.... well.... happy. I do think that some of those areas will become available once given the opportunity to experience the places first hand. For our first job, I wouldn't want to move somewhere that my wife isn't comfortable.
At this point I am not writing any schools off.... I am excited about all of the opportunities available.
At this point I am not writing any schools off.... I am excited about all of the opportunities available.
Just found a recent post that answered most of the questions....
http://internationalschoolsreview.com/v ... al+circuit
Of course I am open to any other thoughts as well.
http://internationalschoolsreview.com/v ... al+circuit
Of course I am open to any other thoughts as well.
You can read a lot of different views on any country but one I suggest you skip on is the USA media. There is an agenda. I say this because I've never seen anything positive in the media about Middle East but I've been here for 5 years now and unless my dream job came up in my dream location I wouldn't leave. The money tax free and travel options are great since it is in the middle of Europe, Asia and Africa.
Comment
Principals and other admins do find themselves on this forum. The hiarchey in ISs is different. The Head of a School (called the HOS) is like a superintendent, or headmaster/headmistress. Below that you have principals, who are also sometimes called coordinators, they run a particular division in a school such as secondary and elementary (or in IB PYP, MYP, DIP). These typically comprise the senior admin team. Then you have assistant/deputy principals and coordinators (such as the IB, technology, SEN, etc), in addition to the counselor, and librarian, these are the junior administrative team.
We dont see a lot of admins on this forum.
The paid reviews are typically either bad, or they are written from an admin or cheerleader to counteract something someone else posted
It depends where you want to go and what your goal is. Typically without international or IB experience you go down a rank. So you were a principal, so your looking at an AP position in a tier 2 school or principal at a tier 3 school or in a undesirable region.
The undesirable places are generally the middle east (ME), you have to go for the money and Africa. Really Eastern Europe is not the old soviet block, if you have an issue their you should forget about China, they have a lot more human rights issues. Additionally, anywhere rural is usually considered less desirable, as there is less access to western conveniences (everything from imports to health care) and less to do.
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
"Elite" status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
We dont see a lot of admins on this forum.
The paid reviews are typically either bad, or they are written from an admin or cheerleader to counteract something someone else posted
It depends where you want to go and what your goal is. Typically without international or IB experience you go down a rank. So you were a principal, so your looking at an AP position in a tier 2 school or principal at a tier 3 school or in a undesirable region.
The undesirable places are generally the middle east (ME), you have to go for the money and Africa. Really Eastern Europe is not the old soviet block, if you have an issue their you should forget about China, they have a lot more human rights issues. Additionally, anywhere rural is usually considered less desirable, as there is less access to western conveniences (everything from imports to health care) and less to do.
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
"Elite" status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Elite doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.