My ultimate goal is to become a life long international school teacher. I would greatly appreciate any advice that the veteran teachers on the forum could give me. Let me provide a quick overview of my experiences and qualifications.
After having spent few years teaching abroad pre qualification (including Peace Corps and at an international school that follows the IGCSE curriculum as well as various TEFL jobs in Europe), I have decided that it is time for me to get the qualifications I need in order to achieve my goal. I am currently at Columbia Teachers College pursuing my masters in English education while teaching full time in a high needs school in the Bronx. When I am finished I be certified in ELA and ESL, have a masters and three years of post qualification experience in the NYC public school system.
The question I have is in regards to the school I'm currently teaching at. The student population is 100% ELLs. All of the students have been in the country for less then a year and about 30% come with interrupted formal education. Within one class, the students range from zero english and barely literate in their native language to those who are only slightly performing below grade level. The school follows an English immersion model and all content areas are taught in English only. I am teaching 9th grade ELA. It is incredibly challenging but I believe that I am learning a lot. I am going to be a master at differentiation, that's for sure.
What concerns me is that this type of experience is not what top tier international schools are looking for. From what I have read, IB and AP experience is what schools are looking for. I am learning so much everyday here and from my perspective if I can excel in this situation I'll be able to do it anywhere. How likely are international schools going to take this same perspective? Any advice would be incredibly helpful. Thanks in advance.
Questions about experience and qualifications. Advice?
Advice
Do you want to teach ESOL or ELA?
Honestly, your description sounds a lot more like that of a language school, or bilingual school teacher, which isn't looked on favorably at best. You say your at a NY public school so the experience will count if you want to teach ESOL. I'd listen to your description and think "you teach ESOL at an Immersion school that just happens to be in the states". If you changed the country to say Korea, or China, your experience would sound exactly like many ESOL language teachers, and that experience doesn't count for anything.
If you want to teach ELA/literature you really need a different set of experiences, or you need to "paint" your experiences more with a literature brush, and focus more on your ability to teach literature.
Really, the top tier schools want and can get teachers with IB/AP/GCSE experience. If you want a shoot at those schools you need to be as competitive as possible. Sure, you always hear about someone who made it into the top, without the right resume but those are exceptions, not the rule. In my experience even at the top tier schools, ESOL teachers don't have the same level of prestige and respect in the faculty or school. The attitude is that SOl is for backpackers. No matter what your experiences are or your qualifications, your always going to hea people say "it's just ESL".
You sound like a stronger ESOL candidate then Literature teacher. There is no AP or GCSE for ESOL, there is for IB, but most students don't test for English as a foreign language with IB.
Honestly, your description sounds a lot more like that of a language school, or bilingual school teacher, which isn't looked on favorably at best. You say your at a NY public school so the experience will count if you want to teach ESOL. I'd listen to your description and think "you teach ESOL at an Immersion school that just happens to be in the states". If you changed the country to say Korea, or China, your experience would sound exactly like many ESOL language teachers, and that experience doesn't count for anything.
If you want to teach ELA/literature you really need a different set of experiences, or you need to "paint" your experiences more with a literature brush, and focus more on your ability to teach literature.
Really, the top tier schools want and can get teachers with IB/AP/GCSE experience. If you want a shoot at those schools you need to be as competitive as possible. Sure, you always hear about someone who made it into the top, without the right resume but those are exceptions, not the rule. In my experience even at the top tier schools, ESOL teachers don't have the same level of prestige and respect in the faculty or school. The attitude is that SOl is for backpackers. No matter what your experiences are or your qualifications, your always going to hea people say "it's just ESL".
You sound like a stronger ESOL candidate then Literature teacher. There is no AP or GCSE for ESOL, there is for IB, but most students don't test for English as a foreign language with IB.
It just gets worse, Davey Jaw
"In my experience even at the top tier schools, ESOL teachers don't have the same level of prestige and respect in the faculty or school."
Dear POlson:
Please note that Dave Psyguy has never seen the inside of what he calls a "top tier" school, and so his advice is as vacuous as most of the other stuff he posts.
Like most good international schools, we have a thriving EAL/ESL program that runs all through the school. Teachers in this program receive exactly the same salaries, benefits and respect as any other of their colleagues. I don't know of any high quality school where this isn't the case.
You should also know that English B (or English as a foreign language) is a popular IB examination option, and it would help your cause if you did your research on this before going for interview - if a high school job is your target.
Dear POlson:
Please note that Dave Psyguy has never seen the inside of what he calls a "top tier" school, and so his advice is as vacuous as most of the other stuff he posts.
Like most good international schools, we have a thriving EAL/ESL program that runs all through the school. Teachers in this program receive exactly the same salaries, benefits and respect as any other of their colleagues. I don't know of any high quality school where this isn't the case.
You should also know that English B (or English as a foreign language) is a popular IB examination option, and it would help your cause if you did your research on this before going for interview - if a high school job is your target.
Comment
No, once again Walter doesn't know what he's talking about, I have most certainly seen and been inside top tier schools. His comment is complete BS, and as usual he criticizes comments of his own creation instead of responding to issues as written. No where did I state or write that ESOL teachers are compensated less or differently, but addressed the attitude. Of RSOL teachers and how admins perceive them especially behind their backs.
He couldn't be further from the truth, in regards to English Language B. Of the 2,297 schools with DIP programs, 2004 of them use English as the working language of instruction, which is over 87%. There were 2,094 English B SL and HL examines out of 7,093 total examines that's 29.5% that's not even a third, which doesn't meet the criteria of being anywhere near a sufficient quantity to be considered "most students" as I wrote.
More admin fear mongering and disinformation.
He couldn't be further from the truth, in regards to English Language B. Of the 2,297 schools with DIP programs, 2004 of them use English as the working language of instruction, which is over 87%. There were 2,094 English B SL and HL examines out of 7,093 total examines that's 29.5% that's not even a third, which doesn't meet the criteria of being anywhere near a sufficient quantity to be considered "most students" as I wrote.
More admin fear mongering and disinformation.
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lifeisnotsobad
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- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
Dear POlson:
I can confirm that Walter's version of life for EAL teachers is the reality at my own school. There is absolutely no distinction between our EAL teachers and any other member of staff and they are very well respected. Indeed, they are recognised as providing essential skills for our english language developers, without which they really could not be successful in any other course delivered in the target language (English). We also support the philosophy that all of our teachers are language teachers, and in this the EAL department are responsible for providing ESL in the Mainstream guidance for the faculty and run regular professional development sessions.
IB Diploma English B is also a very popular course in the school.
I can confirm that Walter's version of life for EAL teachers is the reality at my own school. There is absolutely no distinction between our EAL teachers and any other member of staff and they are very well respected. Indeed, they are recognised as providing essential skills for our english language developers, without which they really could not be successful in any other course delivered in the target language (English). We also support the philosophy that all of our teachers are language teachers, and in this the EAL department are responsible for providing ESL in the Mainstream guidance for the faculty and run regular professional development sessions.
IB Diploma English B is also a very popular course in the school.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
So how about an example
Of one of those "top tier" schools you've been in and seen that kind of discriminatory attitude toward EAL/ESOL teachers? Just one. Please.
You can do this without fear of being identified, because you yourself have never been employed by a "top tier" school.
As for the nonsense you write about Eng B, it is, of course, a Group 2 subject and a major foreign language option. Tell me, do you think "most students" do Spanish or French or German or Russian?
Please stop giving stupid misinformation to people who are trying to enter the international teaching world.
You can do this without fear of being identified, because you yourself have never been employed by a "top tier" school.
As for the nonsense you write about Eng B, it is, of course, a Group 2 subject and a major foreign language option. Tell me, do you think "most students" do Spanish or French or German or Russian?
Please stop giving stupid misinformation to people who are trying to enter the international teaching world.
Comment
You dont know what you think you know, and never have. As usual your the one who's position lacks data. You always resort to personal attacks, when your argument and position lacks data. At many top tier and 1st tier schools ESOL is treated as an inferior subject. It's often enough that when a school has a high demand teacher with a trailing spouse, and go in a job to that trailing spouse is part of the deal they will put that person is the ESOL department. The vast majority of admins don't understand ELL and consider all ESOL the same, hence why treat it differently from language schools. Of course their not going to announce it at a staff meeting.
The numbers from the latest administration are clear most students do a foreign language other then English (70%) but you tend to ignore numbers that don't support your position or argument.
The numbers from the latest administration are clear most students do a foreign language other then English (70%) but you tend to ignore numbers that don't support your position or argument.
Data calling
You're so funny. Your idea of data seems to be an opinion you have: "At many top tier and 1st tier schools ESOL is treated as an inferior subject." Who knows where you've got this stupid idea from, but it's not data in any form that I would recognize. That's why I asked to nominate one high quality school where this is the case, so we can verify your opinion. And of course you can't.
And the next part is even funnier. Every IB student has to take a second language. You think you've proved that English B is a minority subject because only 30% of all students choose it. That means that the remainder chose their second language from the dozens and dozens and dozens of alternatives available.
Please tell me that you have already decided to leave your latest one year job and will be attending a recruitment fair. I shall make a point of interviewing you to give me some comic relief during the day.
And the next part is even funnier. Every IB student has to take a second language. You think you've proved that English B is a minority subject because only 30% of all students choose it. That means that the remainder chose their second language from the dozens and dozens and dozens of alternatives available.
Please tell me that you have already decided to leave your latest one year job and will be attending a recruitment fair. I shall make a point of interviewing you to give me some comic relief during the day.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
I think you'll find that many schools in east Asia have a majority of students who are not native English speakers, and therefore your experience would be quite valuable. For jobs in the middle east I have seen many ads where "Experience working with EAL students is an advantage". An EAL professional with appropriate specialist qualifications (such as you will have) is as valuable as any other part of the faculty in providing support for students who find the linguistic demands of the curriculum demanding. Schools with a high number of expat students are more likely to pay attention to such a professional because the EAL departments are often well established and are trying to ensure that EAL students can keep up. This, in my opinion puts you in luck, because often the schools with the higher number of expat students are the better paying schools.
Something to consider when you're applying to IB schools is that you will be required to work collaboratively with the teachers throughout grade levels as much as possible. If you have experience supporting others and working in an environment that involves a lot of collaboration and support for others then make sure you highlight it.
As far as negativity for the EAl profession goes, you will find that if you tell an expat in China, Korea, Thailand or Japan that you're an English teacher, in many cases they will think of someone that's on holiday for a couple of years working at a small language school with no qualifications other than being a native English speaker. Unfortunately this can be a great frustration for you, as it is for other true EAL/ESL/EFL professionals, such as those supporting learning in international schools or those working for organizations such as the British Council. Don't let it get you though. Hold yourself, your qualifications and your experience in high regard and then there's more of a chance that others will too. Good luck.
Something to consider when you're applying to IB schools is that you will be required to work collaboratively with the teachers throughout grade levels as much as possible. If you have experience supporting others and working in an environment that involves a lot of collaboration and support for others then make sure you highlight it.
As far as negativity for the EAl profession goes, you will find that if you tell an expat in China, Korea, Thailand or Japan that you're an English teacher, in many cases they will think of someone that's on holiday for a couple of years working at a small language school with no qualifications other than being a native English speaker. Unfortunately this can be a great frustration for you, as it is for other true EAL/ESL/EFL professionals, such as those supporting learning in international schools or those working for organizations such as the British Council. Don't let it get you though. Hold yourself, your qualifications and your experience in high regard and then there's more of a chance that others will too. Good luck.
*Sigh*
No Walter thats your approach, your position is to just make claims based solely on your opinion. "ESL is treated with the same respect as any other teaching area', really youve been to every school and know that with absolute certainty? you know that all schools are equal, that all schools are identical to one another?
Sure off the top of my head ISB (Bangkok).
Sure off the top of my head ISB (Bangkok).
You sound upset?
Dave, I'm going to type this slowly because I know you don't read too well. This is what I wrote:
"Like most good international schools, we have a thriving EAL/ESL program that runs all through the school. Teachers in this program receive exactly the same salaries, benefits and respect as any other of their colleagues. I don't know of any high quality school where this isn't the case."
May I repeat that: "I don't know...where this isn't the case."
Then I asked you to nominate one school where this isn't the case, and you have told us IS Bangkok. You have never worked there. As I remember, when you did a runner from Cairo you went to Bkk for a few months to work in - Assumption was it? I guess you may have met teachers from ISB, or friends of teachers from ISB, or even distant relatives of acquaintances of friends of teachers from ISB. Let's see what the ISB faculty has to say about your allegation.
In the meantime, I do know that ISB has a very serious EAL/ESL program with more than a dozen teachers and several full time assistants. It's hard to imagine that the administrators would secretly despise them and talk about them behind their backs. I guess we'll have to wait until we get a response in order to verify your "data".
"Like most good international schools, we have a thriving EAL/ESL program that runs all through the school. Teachers in this program receive exactly the same salaries, benefits and respect as any other of their colleagues. I don't know of any high quality school where this isn't the case."
May I repeat that: "I don't know...where this isn't the case."
Then I asked you to nominate one school where this isn't the case, and you have told us IS Bangkok. You have never worked there. As I remember, when you did a runner from Cairo you went to Bkk for a few months to work in - Assumption was it? I guess you may have met teachers from ISB, or friends of teachers from ISB, or even distant relatives of acquaintances of friends of teachers from ISB. Let's see what the ISB faculty has to say about your allegation.
In the meantime, I do know that ISB has a very serious EAL/ESL program with more than a dozen teachers and several full time assistants. It's hard to imagine that the administrators would secretly despise them and talk about them behind their backs. I guess we'll have to wait until we get a response in order to verify your "data".
I thought the EAL department at ISB was supposed to be awesome, with everyone fully qualified. That was certainly the case when I was in Bangkok anyway (which is a few years ago, I accept). I can't imagine that they've lowered their standards now.
Any decent school will recognise EAL as an important area of inclusivity in which students should receive support. Smaller schools with lower budgets may ask teachers to place more emphasis on differentiation according to language needs, or they may try and get an SEN teacher who can do both SEN and EAL support, but I've never come across a mentality where EAL or EAl teachers are looked down upon, not in an international school anyway.
Any decent school will recognise EAL as an important area of inclusivity in which students should receive support. Smaller schools with lower budgets may ask teachers to place more emphasis on differentiation according to language needs, or they may try and get an SEN teacher who can do both SEN and EAL support, but I've never come across a mentality where EAL or EAl teachers are looked down upon, not in an international school anyway.