I have been reading this forum for a long time to try and get a firm grasp on where I stand, but I have not found others who are in a similar situation.
I am 24 years old and have a bachelors, 2 years teaching at a Thai high-school and I am half-way finished with my masters in eduction. I know I am very young to be an international school teacher, but I know I have what it takes to persevere and succeed at any level. From my research, it seems as if my first two tears will be at a lower tier school in a location that is not exactly everyone's first choice. Is this an accurate assumption?
I would love to teach physical education, as I have spent my whole life involved in fitness and have coached for over 7 years. What are the appropriate steps to become a physical education teacher in an international school?
Lastly, will my age hinder or help me?
I appreciate the guidance. Thanks.
-Ben
What Are My Chances?
-
expatteacher99
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:46 am
Do you have teaching certification? In what area(s)? If you want to teach PE in an international school, you most likely need to obtain certification in PE. I've worked at schools that periodically hired non-certified teachers, but it wasn't a good situation. At your age, I would work to get certified (if you're not already), then you will have many more options in the future. Good luck!
Questions
A couple questions first:
1) What are you teaching at this Thai high school, is it ESOL?
2) Whats your degree in?
3) Where are you from (American, European, British, Thai, etc)?
4) What is your coaching experience? Are you certified by that sports olympic/governing authority?
5) Do you have a teaching credential that would allow you to teach in public/municipal schools in your home country?
Your age is a bit on the young side, but 24 isnt too young and plenty of teachers your age enter the IT profession.
1) What are you teaching at this Thai high school, is it ESOL?
2) Whats your degree in?
3) Where are you from (American, European, British, Thai, etc)?
4) What is your coaching experience? Are you certified by that sports olympic/governing authority?
5) Do you have a teaching credential that would allow you to teach in public/municipal schools in your home country?
Your age is a bit on the young side, but 24 isnt too young and plenty of teachers your age enter the IT profession.
-
bendetwile2
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:02 am
1. I am teaching English in my current Thai high school
2. My bachelors degree is in business marketing
3. I am American with an American passport
4. I have been coaching (basketball, tennis and track) for 8 years, and I have references to back it up. I am not formally certified to teach physical education, but I am definitely looking to get certified ASAP.
5. My masters degree will allow me to become fully certified after I submit the application to the state department in Wyoming.
What is the cheapest and fastest way to become certified in physical education while abroad?
Which job fair do you recommend I attend?
Thanks for everyone's help, I really appreciate it.
2. My bachelors degree is in business marketing
3. I am American with an American passport
4. I have been coaching (basketball, tennis and track) for 8 years, and I have references to back it up. I am not formally certified to teach physical education, but I am definitely looking to get certified ASAP.
5. My masters degree will allow me to become fully certified after I submit the application to the state department in Wyoming.
What is the cheapest and fastest way to become certified in physical education while abroad?
Which job fair do you recommend I attend?
Thanks for everyone's help, I really appreciate it.
Thai high schools can be really nice places to work, and I think here are quite a few people who start out teaching that way and then decide to get the qualifications to do it at a higher level.
In my opinion, if you’re 24, sure that you want to teach and love living overseas, then spend 1 year in your home country, get yourself certified to teach what you want to teach and then move to anywhere you like. I know the idea of going back after a break away can seem painful, but surely for the sake of 9 months hard work it will be worth it. Certification doesn’t mean that you’ll get in at a top school straight away, but you should certainly be able to walk into any of the lower end international schools in Thailand and still double what you’ll make teaching English at a local curriculum school. There are loads of foreigners working in Thai/Bilingual schools that would love to work in international schools, and some have been trying for a very long time. At the end of the day though, even the lowest international schools now still require some kind of certification by law. They still let people in from time to time, but that's rare nowadays.
As for the job fair, I think that's a bit optimistic at the moment. Talking about your experience in your current school as anything more than a positive experience that stimulated your desire to teach professionally and become qualified would not be taken seriously, so going to a fair now would mean you'd be going with no qualifications and no real experience. Search might not even accept your application.
It might even be worth considering working at one of the lower end bilingual schools to get some experience teaching other subjects, at least while you finish your masters.
You're at a great age to discover the joys of living overseas. Enjoy it.
Hope this helps. All the best.
In my opinion, if you’re 24, sure that you want to teach and love living overseas, then spend 1 year in your home country, get yourself certified to teach what you want to teach and then move to anywhere you like. I know the idea of going back after a break away can seem painful, but surely for the sake of 9 months hard work it will be worth it. Certification doesn’t mean that you’ll get in at a top school straight away, but you should certainly be able to walk into any of the lower end international schools in Thailand and still double what you’ll make teaching English at a local curriculum school. There are loads of foreigners working in Thai/Bilingual schools that would love to work in international schools, and some have been trying for a very long time. At the end of the day though, even the lowest international schools now still require some kind of certification by law. They still let people in from time to time, but that's rare nowadays.
As for the job fair, I think that's a bit optimistic at the moment. Talking about your experience in your current school as anything more than a positive experience that stimulated your desire to teach professionally and become qualified would not be taken seriously, so going to a fair now would mean you'd be going with no qualifications and no real experience. Search might not even accept your application.
It might even be worth considering working at one of the lower end bilingual schools to get some experience teaching other subjects, at least while you finish your masters.
You're at a great age to discover the joys of living overseas. Enjoy it.
Hope this helps. All the best.
-
bendetwile2
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:02 am
@inman,
Thanks for the honest reply. There are tests I can take online to get certified as a physical education in place of going back home for an entire year. http://www.ets.org/praxis
I am open to any country in the world to gain the necessary experience to become a physical education teacher.
Would a country such as Korea or Japan look better for my high-school experience than Thailand? Or are they all of equal irrelevance in the IS circuit?
I will not have formal classroom teaching in PE, but I will have classroom experience and be certified in PE and have been coaching sports for almost 10 years.
So, if I am certified in PE ,via state and praxis assessment, and having a masters in education will international schools view me as a viable candidate at a job fair such as Cambridge or UNI?
Thanks for the honest reply. There are tests I can take online to get certified as a physical education in place of going back home for an entire year. http://www.ets.org/praxis
I am open to any country in the world to gain the necessary experience to become a physical education teacher.
Would a country such as Korea or Japan look better for my high-school experience than Thailand? Or are they all of equal irrelevance in the IS circuit?
I will not have formal classroom teaching in PE, but I will have classroom experience and be certified in PE and have been coaching sports for almost 10 years.
So, if I am certified in PE ,via state and praxis assessment, and having a masters in education will international schools view me as a viable candidate at a job fair such as Cambridge or UNI?
Replies
Your Thai English experience doesnt count. I will assume everything you say about your certification program in Wyoming is true. So your answer to one of your questions (which is the fastest/cheapest means of getting certified in PE) is to take the praxis tests after you complete your Masters and submit them for certification to the Wyoming department of education. Any other american certification program is going to require a field experience of some kind, in addition to whatever coursework they would already require. From what you say your basically getting certification for the cost and time of a couple of examination on top of the Masters you are already doing. I cant think of an alternative to that, that would be cheaper or faster for a entry level certificate.
I will also assume you dont have any coaching certifications by the sports governing authorities, this is separate from being certified in PE.
All of this aside though, your basically a newbie. You have no credible post certification experience (negative), newly certified (neutral), and you dont have a degree in your teaching field (negative), you do have a future masters (positive, when you get it). Your not really a viable candidate.
If Search accepted you, and you might have to apply as an intern to get in, the Cambridge fair is the one to go to, but really you need to go to the fair with the most PE positions.
Really the only schools that are going to take a chance with you are the third tier schools and schools in the ME and maybe SCA. These are the schools you need to focus on, because going back to the States to teach PE is not going to happen, your going to be waiting forever for a coaching job, and youd have to be qualified to teach social studies or something else as well.
I will also assume you dont have any coaching certifications by the sports governing authorities, this is separate from being certified in PE.
All of this aside though, your basically a newbie. You have no credible post certification experience (negative), newly certified (neutral), and you dont have a degree in your teaching field (negative), you do have a future masters (positive, when you get it). Your not really a viable candidate.
If Search accepted you, and you might have to apply as an intern to get in, the Cambridge fair is the one to go to, but really you need to go to the fair with the most PE positions.
Really the only schools that are going to take a chance with you are the third tier schools and schools in the ME and maybe SCA. These are the schools you need to focus on, because going back to the States to teach PE is not going to happen, your going to be waiting forever for a coaching job, and youd have to be qualified to teach social studies or something else as well.
-
bendetwile2
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:02 am
@psyguy
Very useful information as always. I need to start somewhere, and I am open to almost any country.
After two years in the middle east teaching PE (hopefully getting IB experience), will I have a chance at at the "good" schools or at least ?
climb up one tier?
How will my marketability change after my initial contract?
If you were in my situation, which middle eastern countries would be of interest to you the most?
Very useful information as always. I need to start somewhere, and I am open to almost any country.
After two years in the middle east teaching PE (hopefully getting IB experience), will I have a chance at at the "good" schools or at least ?
climb up one tier?
How will my marketability change after my initial contract?
If you were in my situation, which middle eastern countries would be of interest to you the most?
Reply
Here are the issues: First IB doesnt really influence your marketability when it comes to PE. More so with PYP, but not at MYP or DIP.
Second, the normal bar to entry for an IT is 2 years post certification experience. Meaning to enter the international teacher field you need a minimum of 2 years experience after getting certified. You cant realistically go back to the States and just fall into a PE/Coaching position, so you have to basically go into the IT field as an intern to get your 2 years experience. Your essentially entering the field behind everyone, and your going to have to get really lucky.
So when you get done with your first 2 year contract, your still going to be at the same level as the newbies entering the field. You will be more marketable, (1) You will have a Masters degree, most newbies dont have one. (2) You will have real IS experience, in a hardship region most likely. (3) You may, hopefully have IB, or IGCSE, or curriculum experience and training.
Does that mean youll get to move up a tier, or too a more desirable region, i really cant say, the best answer I can give is maybe.
On a scale of 1-10 most new ITs come in with score of 1-2, your going to have about a 3.5, so youll be twice as marketable (Ive included my scoring system below)
If I were you where in the ME would I go? Nowhere, but if I HAD to pick id say the UAE.
PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
Second, the normal bar to entry for an IT is 2 years post certification experience. Meaning to enter the international teacher field you need a minimum of 2 years experience after getting certified. You cant realistically go back to the States and just fall into a PE/Coaching position, so you have to basically go into the IT field as an intern to get your 2 years experience. Your essentially entering the field behind everyone, and your going to have to get really lucky.
So when you get done with your first 2 year contract, your still going to be at the same level as the newbies entering the field. You will be more marketable, (1) You will have a Masters degree, most newbies dont have one. (2) You will have real IS experience, in a hardship region most likely. (3) You may, hopefully have IB, or IGCSE, or curriculum experience and training.
Does that mean youll get to move up a tier, or too a more desirable region, i really cant say, the best answer I can give is maybe.
On a scale of 1-10 most new ITs come in with score of 1-2, your going to have about a 3.5, so youll be twice as marketable (Ive included my scoring system below)
If I were you where in the ME would I go? Nowhere, but if I HAD to pick id say the UAE.
PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
Working a couple of years in somewhere tough to get some decent international school experience before moving somewhere more desirable is not a bad idea at all in my opinion, but it doesn't have to somewhere that tough. It just has to be somewhere where teachers are in high demand. The UAE and Qatar have raised standards a lot of the last few year years so you wouldnt be able to get in unless you have your certification completed. For Korea and Japan you'd only really be able to get into language schools that wouldn't take you any higher than you are now. I'd say your best bet would definitely be China. There are loads of lower tier international schools there and not enough teachers to fill them all. If you get a good city in China then it could be a very enjoyable experience and get you some real experience.
10 years coaching experience sounds like you have actually been a coach for 10 years, but seeing as that takes you back to when you were 14 interviewers may view that sceptically. It might be better to say that you've supported coaching since you were 14 and have individually coached for.... years, even if you have really been coaching for that long.
10 years coaching experience sounds like you have actually been a coach for 10 years, but seeing as that takes you back to when you were 14 interviewers may view that sceptically. It might be better to say that you've supported coaching since you were 14 and have individually coached for.... years, even if you have really been coaching for that long.
Comment
The ME isnt getting choosey at all, all year, year after year they have vacancies. They always have trouble recruiting and Qatar isnt picky at all. China is an option there are a number of 3rd tier schools in China that will hire you, the problem though with the bottom tier schools in China, is that its very difficult to determine the difference between an international school thats going to help your career and a language school thats just teaching ESOL through traditional academics, or Bilingual schools.
-
bendetwile2
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:02 am
@inman: Thanks for the positive encouragement, I really appreciate it. I think you bring up some very useful points for me to consider.
@psyguy: What are the best ways to tell if a third tier Chinese "international School" is legit? Also, in terms of compensation, what is the maximum amount I could hope for in the ME and China? I am just trying to get a feel for what to expect.
@psyguy: What are the best ways to tell if a third tier Chinese "international School" is legit? Also, in terms of compensation, what is the maximum amount I could hope for in the ME and China? I am just trying to get a feel for what to expect.
Re: Comment
[quote="PsyGuy"]The ME isnt getting choosey at all, all year, year after year they have vacancies. They always have trouble recruiting and Qatar isnt picky at all. [/quote]
How silly and illogical. Hundreds of schools worldwide including your precious "tier 1" schools have vacancies every year. And yes, there are well-thought-of schools in the ME that can pick and choose. My school had completed all hiring in June, and it's probably not one on most people's radar.
How silly and illogical. Hundreds of schools worldwide including your precious "tier 1" schools have vacancies every year. And yes, there are well-thought-of schools in the ME that can pick and choose. My school had completed all hiring in June, and it's probably not one on most people's radar.
Bendetwile2, in my opinion, the kind of international school you go into wouldn't really matter at this point. Of course, if it's a good school with a good reputation then that's great, but surely now the main point of your next move is to get the words "International School" on your resume and get some real international curriculum experience.
Regarding the comment about "The ME isn't getting choosey", well I wouldn't look at all the countries the same. I was in Qatar for 2 years and indeed, the lower end schools couldn't be so picky, but that was a few years ago and as the quality of life has improved so much there in the last few years, and so has the appeal. No-one looks at Qatar as a hardship posting anymore. The UAE do have loads of vacancies year after year, but after 4 years in the UAE I have seen quite a few new schools built and there has been a massive push from the Abu Dhabi Education Council (ADEC) to get qualified teachers from overseas in as many schools as possible, so those are most likely the reason for the continuous vacancies there. In addition, a lot of the schools have a very large number of expatriate staff, and replacing them is a big job. Putting the all the ME in one bracket is ridiculous. The appeal of Dubai and Saudi differ to no end. The UAE can be choosey, and they have become increasingly so.
Low end school in China might only be looking to pay about 10,000-12,000 CNY, but you can have a good life on that if you're on your own, and probably save a but too. Low end ME I really don't know. I've done well here. Not less that 9000 AED in the UAE, and similar in Qatar.
Regarding the comment about "The ME isn't getting choosey", well I wouldn't look at all the countries the same. I was in Qatar for 2 years and indeed, the lower end schools couldn't be so picky, but that was a few years ago and as the quality of life has improved so much there in the last few years, and so has the appeal. No-one looks at Qatar as a hardship posting anymore. The UAE do have loads of vacancies year after year, but after 4 years in the UAE I have seen quite a few new schools built and there has been a massive push from the Abu Dhabi Education Council (ADEC) to get qualified teachers from overseas in as many schools as possible, so those are most likely the reason for the continuous vacancies there. In addition, a lot of the schools have a very large number of expatriate staff, and replacing them is a big job. Putting the all the ME in one bracket is ridiculous. The appeal of Dubai and Saudi differ to no end. The UAE can be choosey, and they have become increasingly so.
Low end school in China might only be looking to pay about 10,000-12,000 CNY, but you can have a good life on that if you're on your own, and probably save a but too. Low end ME I really don't know. I've done well here. Not less that 9000 AED in the UAE, and similar in Qatar.