My husband and I are new to the IS world. I would like some real answers and I figured this might be the best place to get them :D
We have 1 child that will be 4, so we would need a school that has a preschool, which it seems like many do. We are also looking at Asian schools, but will not go anywhere in Asia (although this has changed since we first started our research)
[b]I want to know what are our chances at getting on at a top (Tier 1/Elite) school? [/b]
If we don't get into a top school, we would consider another as long as HOUSING and typical benefits received in the states (medical, insurance) is included. We are not only looking for a fun experience, but to be honest, we can't afford to live now that our student loans are due!
Can someone give me a "shopping list" of good "tier 2" schools?
Let me give you a summary of our experience/qualifications.
We both have our Masters and are both ELEMENTARY teachers currently. I have been teaching for 9 yrs and my hubby for 6.
We are both certified K-8. How much competition is the elementary world? I have read mostly about uppper grades.
My husband has Jr. High certification in science, but I didn't know if that would be desirable? Also, his Masters is in secondary ed, but he doesn't hold a certification in it due to working/student teaching. Would they consider him for High School based off of his degree, or does he need his certification?
My husband has a reading endorsement. Would that help at all?
I am endorsed in early childhood and have taught kindergarten for 8 years. Do they view this as desirable to have?
I am also a certified counselor, although I haven't landed a job in counseling. (That is where my heart is though)
On another post I saw a rating scale used by a recruiter where it mentioned an extra point given to teachers who are cross-certifited, would we be considered this?
Also on the rating scale it mentioned a .5 point for a "special skill set." What exactly does that mean?
As far as travel experience is concerned, we have both traveled to other countries, but not worked/lived in others.
What would help make us more "marketable?" What should we use as our best selling point?
Also, we are requesting and invite to the Cambridge fair. I have read that many newbies do get invited. Do you think we will?
I know I have asked many questions and any responses are appreciated!
Newbie questions
Newbie questions
Last edited by micki0624 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tier System
I have read many debates about the tier system. I know there is no "official system" but we do want the best school we can get, so please no definitions of the tiers and debates about if they exist or not.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Comment
Hi, welcome to the forum. You really asked a lot of questions, so to get started I appreciate that you want direct to the point answers without a lot of background, debate and discussion (I tend to do that).
1) So what are your chances of being hired at a top tier/elite school: zero, or very close to zero.
Discussion:
You have no IB (PYP) experience, and no IS experience and your both elementary teachers (meaning your competing against each other unless a school has two vacancies.) Most ISs like to save primary positions for teaching couples, where the front spouse teaches a high needs or in demand area.
2) Most IS schools in Asia provide housing directly, or a housing allowance.
Discussion:
Housing allowances are usually very generous and typically would allow you to afford a very nice 2-3 bedroom furnished apartment, as well as your utilities.
3)Schools in Asia also provide various health and medical insurance plans that cover major medical (hospital) as well as minor clinic care.
Discussion:
In asia medication is either included, or is ridiculously cheap.The only issue is that A) almost all of them have pre-existing condition clauses. B) Maternity/Delivery sometimes dont cover "all" of what an american would expect. Its not uncommon for a deluxe suite in a international hospital to exceed the policy allowances (meaning you have to pay some out of pocket). Any reputable school would also insure your dependents at no cost.
4) I cant give you a shopping list of good tier 2 schools
Discussion:
What I consider "good" and "tier 2" is entirely subjective, and honestly for all of asia would be a long list, and then this post would become a debate about whether acme school is a tier 1, 2, or 3 school. We recently had a disagreement about Concordia in Shanghai that went 6 posts on just that one school.
5) There is a lot of competition for elementary teachers
Discussion:
There is a lot of competition for elementary teachers, but there is also a lot of demand. What makes elementary difficult, is that as I wrote earlier, many schools save primary positions for teaching couples where there is a high needs/in demand front spouse. There are als0 a lot of primary teachers out thee who are under-qualified/ inexperienced. It seems just about everyone has a primary qualification. Having both of you qualified for the same position is going to really magnify the issue for you. You need a school that has 2 primary vacancies, and no foreseeable demand to reserve those vacancies in the future. That doesnt happen very often.
6) Your husband needs to be certified in whatever hes applying for.
Discussion:
Even if they would technically hire him, he wouldnt be competitive without a certification. A masters in "Secondary education" without a subject specification, doesnt qualify him to teach anything in particular. Honestly, lots of teachers have M.Eds and other education related masters degree, and all they focus on is pedagogy, methodology, and assessment. Theres nothing in that course work that would indicate they were competent in science or any other field.
On top of that he has no science teaching experience, so no certification, no relevant degree, and no experience is a non-starter. Hes not qualified.
7) Middle school qualifications (Junior High Science) arent very useful or desirable.
Discussion:
In ISs the world is divided into primary and secondary. This is grades 6/7-12. In IB that means MYP and DIP. A school thats hiring a secondary teacher (especially in core subjects) wants someone who is qualified in all levels. Its a bonus for a school that is hireing him as a primary teacher, but its not going to get him an offer by itself. Again, he has no experience teaching science at any level anyway.
8) A reading endorsement is a nice but there are only a couple specific reading/literacy coach positions every year.
Discussion:
Does he have experience teaching a focused reading program in primary/early childhood? if not then its again a bonus for a school but nothing thats going to specifically get him an offer.
9) EC and your experience would make you very valuable as a EC-K teacher.
Discussion:
With 8 years experience thats what you really are, as opposed to a primary school teacher. You should specifically look for: EC, Nursery, Pre-K, K, and grades 1-3 when searching for positions. This would help differentiate you and your husband in a recruiters mind. Your not two primary school teachers your one primary and one EC teacher. Often the EC program is separate from the primary program, and even has a different admin.
The big problem though is that most EC positions are local hires.
10) Being a counselor is very valuable and would change your marketability.
Discussion: There is a lot of demand for counselors last year, specifically college counselors. There were people with no experience who were hired at nice schools. This might be a way to differentiate yourselves. You as the front candidate in counseling and husband as primary teacher. Thats just the kind of scenario schools save primary positions for. The issue of course is going to be that you have no experience, which doesnt put you at the top of the pile, still most schools had very short.small piles.
In my opinion, this is your best approach.
11) For a counselor no that wouldnt be cross certified.
Discussion:
f you were certified to teach Psychology (Humanities or social studies) or could do TOK/CASm, or has ESOL and or Special ed certification this would be considered cross certified for a counselor. Usually counselors and other admin or professional staff positions dont benefit from being cross certified. There are a number of small ISs that combine the counselor position with teaching.
To be cross certified it needs to be a subject teaching area that the school needs or can use. Usually these are paired areas, such as Math/Science, Literature/Humanities, Business/Economics, Computers/Technology, etc.
12) Special Skill sets are documentable skills that a school can schedule and/or market.
Discussion:
Coaching a sport is a classic example. Its got to be something that requires special skill or training, not just a hobby, or something that anyone can do.
13) No one cares about your traveling. Being a tourist doesnt count for anything.
14) I think you will very likely get invited to the BOS/Cambridge fair.
15) Realistically, there isnt much you can do in the next couple of months between now and the prime recruiting period to increase your marketability. Somethings that would help would be:
1) Getting PYP experience (this would help a lot)
2) Experience in college advising and counseling (also help a lot).
3) PYP training (not very much but you could do the level 1 workshop in a few months online.)
4) Secondary science certification (Hubby could get certified in This would help some, especially if hubby was interested in secondary positions. Still depending on your state it could be pretty easy to do).
1) So what are your chances of being hired at a top tier/elite school: zero, or very close to zero.
Discussion:
You have no IB (PYP) experience, and no IS experience and your both elementary teachers (meaning your competing against each other unless a school has two vacancies.) Most ISs like to save primary positions for teaching couples, where the front spouse teaches a high needs or in demand area.
2) Most IS schools in Asia provide housing directly, or a housing allowance.
Discussion:
Housing allowances are usually very generous and typically would allow you to afford a very nice 2-3 bedroom furnished apartment, as well as your utilities.
3)Schools in Asia also provide various health and medical insurance plans that cover major medical (hospital) as well as minor clinic care.
Discussion:
In asia medication is either included, or is ridiculously cheap.The only issue is that A) almost all of them have pre-existing condition clauses. B) Maternity/Delivery sometimes dont cover "all" of what an american would expect. Its not uncommon for a deluxe suite in a international hospital to exceed the policy allowances (meaning you have to pay some out of pocket). Any reputable school would also insure your dependents at no cost.
4) I cant give you a shopping list of good tier 2 schools
Discussion:
What I consider "good" and "tier 2" is entirely subjective, and honestly for all of asia would be a long list, and then this post would become a debate about whether acme school is a tier 1, 2, or 3 school. We recently had a disagreement about Concordia in Shanghai that went 6 posts on just that one school.
5) There is a lot of competition for elementary teachers
Discussion:
There is a lot of competition for elementary teachers, but there is also a lot of demand. What makes elementary difficult, is that as I wrote earlier, many schools save primary positions for teaching couples where there is a high needs/in demand front spouse. There are als0 a lot of primary teachers out thee who are under-qualified/ inexperienced. It seems just about everyone has a primary qualification. Having both of you qualified for the same position is going to really magnify the issue for you. You need a school that has 2 primary vacancies, and no foreseeable demand to reserve those vacancies in the future. That doesnt happen very often.
6) Your husband needs to be certified in whatever hes applying for.
Discussion:
Even if they would technically hire him, he wouldnt be competitive without a certification. A masters in "Secondary education" without a subject specification, doesnt qualify him to teach anything in particular. Honestly, lots of teachers have M.Eds and other education related masters degree, and all they focus on is pedagogy, methodology, and assessment. Theres nothing in that course work that would indicate they were competent in science or any other field.
On top of that he has no science teaching experience, so no certification, no relevant degree, and no experience is a non-starter. Hes not qualified.
7) Middle school qualifications (Junior High Science) arent very useful or desirable.
Discussion:
In ISs the world is divided into primary and secondary. This is grades 6/7-12. In IB that means MYP and DIP. A school thats hiring a secondary teacher (especially in core subjects) wants someone who is qualified in all levels. Its a bonus for a school that is hireing him as a primary teacher, but its not going to get him an offer by itself. Again, he has no experience teaching science at any level anyway.
8) A reading endorsement is a nice but there are only a couple specific reading/literacy coach positions every year.
Discussion:
Does he have experience teaching a focused reading program in primary/early childhood? if not then its again a bonus for a school but nothing thats going to specifically get him an offer.
9) EC and your experience would make you very valuable as a EC-K teacher.
Discussion:
With 8 years experience thats what you really are, as opposed to a primary school teacher. You should specifically look for: EC, Nursery, Pre-K, K, and grades 1-3 when searching for positions. This would help differentiate you and your husband in a recruiters mind. Your not two primary school teachers your one primary and one EC teacher. Often the EC program is separate from the primary program, and even has a different admin.
The big problem though is that most EC positions are local hires.
10) Being a counselor is very valuable and would change your marketability.
Discussion: There is a lot of demand for counselors last year, specifically college counselors. There were people with no experience who were hired at nice schools. This might be a way to differentiate yourselves. You as the front candidate in counseling and husband as primary teacher. Thats just the kind of scenario schools save primary positions for. The issue of course is going to be that you have no experience, which doesnt put you at the top of the pile, still most schools had very short.small piles.
In my opinion, this is your best approach.
11) For a counselor no that wouldnt be cross certified.
Discussion:
f you were certified to teach Psychology (Humanities or social studies) or could do TOK/CASm, or has ESOL and or Special ed certification this would be considered cross certified for a counselor. Usually counselors and other admin or professional staff positions dont benefit from being cross certified. There are a number of small ISs that combine the counselor position with teaching.
To be cross certified it needs to be a subject teaching area that the school needs or can use. Usually these are paired areas, such as Math/Science, Literature/Humanities, Business/Economics, Computers/Technology, etc.
12) Special Skill sets are documentable skills that a school can schedule and/or market.
Discussion:
Coaching a sport is a classic example. Its got to be something that requires special skill or training, not just a hobby, or something that anyone can do.
13) No one cares about your traveling. Being a tourist doesnt count for anything.
14) I think you will very likely get invited to the BOS/Cambridge fair.
15) Realistically, there isnt much you can do in the next couple of months between now and the prime recruiting period to increase your marketability. Somethings that would help would be:
1) Getting PYP experience (this would help a lot)
2) Experience in college advising and counseling (also help a lot).
3) PYP training (not very much but you could do the level 1 workshop in a few months online.)
4) Secondary science certification (Hubby could get certified in This would help some, especially if hubby was interested in secondary positions. Still depending on your state it could be pretty easy to do).
Thank you!!
Thank you so much for your reply. Being new to everything, I just wanted a ballpark and a direction. I know I asked a lot of questions, but this is an entirely new venture for us.
One last question. You said you'd take the Counselor approach instead of the EC approach right? But use both approaches to make us more valuable?
My husband and I were writing a cover letter yesterday and weren't too specific on my qualifications, as that is what a resume is for. Should we mention 2 areas of strength in the cover letter?
Also the ultimate question, is it better for us to wait the 2 yrs so my husband can get his secondary certification and me try to get some counseling experience or try to get into the IS scene now and gain experience?
One last question. You said you'd take the Counselor approach instead of the EC approach right? But use both approaches to make us more valuable?
My husband and I were writing a cover letter yesterday and weren't too specific on my qualifications, as that is what a resume is for. Should we mention 2 areas of strength in the cover letter?
Also the ultimate question, is it better for us to wait the 2 yrs so my husband can get his secondary certification and me try to get some counseling experience or try to get into the IS scene now and gain experience?
Reply
You need to be open to both EC and counselor positions. With those positions guiding where you apply. The problem is differentiating between you and your husband. Two elementary school teachers for a school is going to be a harder sell, then a counselor/EC with a primary teaching spouse. Market wise the counselor approach is in more demand, and you have a stronger likelihood of ending up at a better school with that approach.
Your cover letter should lead with whatever your strongest value is that the two of you can offer a school. Most cover letters don't get read either. Schools want to know what you have taught and what you can teach. Most cover letters are very similar, and amount to little more then candidates bragging about what great teachers they are.
Go now. Waiting two years for a single certification in science with no experience behind it isn't worth the time. No one knows what the counselor market will be like in 2 years, it may very well have cooled. Right now it's a very in demand field, and as I wrote earlier, a number of new counselors with no experience were hired at good schools this year. You also dont know if youd be able to get any counselor experience in the next couple of years. The reality is that the cost of applying and trying is very low, and your likely to have several offers, this year. You can build your resume and counseling experience better overseas then you can domestically.
Your cover letter should lead with whatever your strongest value is that the two of you can offer a school. Most cover letters don't get read either. Schools want to know what you have taught and what you can teach. Most cover letters are very similar, and amount to little more then candidates bragging about what great teachers they are.
Go now. Waiting two years for a single certification in science with no experience behind it isn't worth the time. No one knows what the counselor market will be like in 2 years, it may very well have cooled. Right now it's a very in demand field, and as I wrote earlier, a number of new counselors with no experience were hired at good schools this year. You also dont know if youd be able to get any counselor experience in the next couple of years. The reality is that the cost of applying and trying is very low, and your likely to have several offers, this year. You can build your resume and counseling experience better overseas then you can domestically.