I'm getting set up to apply for IS jobs this year, and I'm concerned about one aspect of the interview process.
I currently work at a low-income school in Texas. We're constantly on the state & national "bad lists" because we have too many kids in SPED. It's not unusual to have students be pulled out of class to testify in court. We make sure the kids eat breakfast & lunch at school because some of them don't get food at home. In a fifth-grade class, the lowest student is usually working somewhere between a preschool and second grade level. It's the sort of school you'd see in a documentary about the state of public education in America. As you might guess, it has given me wonderful experience in classroom management and differentiation.
I read somewhere that recruiters don't want to hear about your experience with low-income migrant workers or kids with severe disabilities, because most international schools serve kids of the wealthy and non-disabled variety.
I'd like to hear from some of you with experience -- do I need to spin my experience here? Should I focus on my work with the average- to high-level kids? When schools ask about differentiation, are they talking about differentiating from preschool levels all the way up to high school levels in one classroom, which is what I currently do?
I realize that wealthy and gifted students have a whole different set of problems, and I feel confident that I can work with those kids. I'm just not sure how to convey that to the recruiters.
Spinning Public School Experience
Date, but...
This is a bit dated, as I went overseas in 2000; I came from a similar situation such as your own, so I thought I would reply. I hope this helps!
At job fairs, stateside experience was plus, and I was surprised how many admin interviewing me had spent a certain amount of time in their own careers working at tough public schools. They understood why I was leaving the public sector for the private. I should add that at this time no job fair would take a teacher unless he or she had two years of experience prior to attending the fair; it was just taken as a given that that experience would be in a public school. All the schools I've worked at since then have required state certification for US schools anyway. I also had taught a few years of AP, which helped give me a leg up.
My experience was good; I ended up at a tier 1 school in Asia (see all the tier 1 debates on this forum for more info) and had a positive experience there.
At job fairs, stateside experience was plus, and I was surprised how many admin interviewing me had spent a certain amount of time in their own careers working at tough public schools. They understood why I was leaving the public sector for the private. I should add that at this time no job fair would take a teacher unless he or she had two years of experience prior to attending the fair; it was just taken as a given that that experience would be in a public school. All the schools I've worked at since then have required state certification for US schools anyway. I also had taught a few years of AP, which helped give me a leg up.
My experience was good; I ended up at a tier 1 school in Asia (see all the tier 1 debates on this forum for more info) and had a positive experience there.
Advice
You really need to spin your experience sorry. In high school a lack of AP experience would be a warning to a recruiter, but I take from your post that your in elementary?
At a fair, a recruiter its very unlikely to check up on the ranking of your previous school. They dont have time. Outside of a fair they can and do have more time but its unlikely they would look up your school rankings. Recruiters tend to lump new hires or newbies into 1) public school teachers and 2) private (independent) school teachers. Thats about as deep as they go. A teacher from a top magnet public school is not going to be viewed much differently then one from a failing school. There isnt much difference.
Recruiters dont want to hear about your work with disadvantaged, migrant, at risk, etc students. Recruiters want to hear that you can relate to THEIR students demographic. This means you may have to take some "creative license" in "extrapolating" your experience.
Some suggestions:
1) De-emphasis behavior management and classroom discipline. If all you talk about is how you kept those terrors in line, it will sound like all you are is a jailer. The vast majority of ISs have only a few minor discipline problems. In Denmark we had one "fight" all year. Students do what there teachers say, and generally are very well behaved. Especially in Asia, parents will be very supportive and telling a parent that their child was disrespectful or was disruptive will remedy the situation VERY quickly. Its a face issue.
2) Discuss your lesson plans, and curriculum planing "as if" you had grade level students or G&T students. If your discussing a lesson plan for 5th graders that sounds like its meant for 2nd graders it sends the message that you havent really taught your grade level curriculum material. Why would they hire you to teach 5th grade when you havent really taught 5th grade.
3) When it comes to ESL/SPED students you should frame your response in terms of differentiation and accommodation based on only having a few students. Unless your applying for an ESl/SPED position the understanding is that the majority of your students were general ed, main stream students. Thats what they are hiring you for is teaching a general ed classroom, if too much of your teaching focuses on special population students, the recruiter may wonder if you have the experience to teach the "normals".
4) Parents, and really coworkers and admins as well. I have to imagine that you had a lot of confrontation, with various groups and individuals. Forget about all of it. You got along with all your co-workers, your admins were supportive and strong mentors, and all your interactions with parents were cordial and productive. Saying anything else is just to likely to make you seem confrontational and unprofessional.
5) Complaints and "stories", forget those too, no one cares that you bought your own supplies or that your textbooks were 20 years old. Dont talk about metal detectors, or the pregnant 5th graders, or the fact your school had its own swat team, or drugs or guns or any of that. None of it is relevant to IS teaching and it only has the potential to reflect badly on you. Seriously even if you took a bullet to save a students life, all it says is that you wernt a strong enough teacher to find a job in a better/decent school, and that you didnt do any "real" teaching. You want to avoid anything that might suggest you were little more then a baby sitter.
Suggestions:
1) If your school is part of a much larger district that has good schools and bad school, consider listing the district name and not the school on your resume.
2) I would stage a model teaching demonstration, if you do one. Not only will it showcase your teaching talents and abilities but will frame the environment of where you taught in a positive POV.
3) Focus on you and not the classroom and how you developed yourself professionally as an educator. Interview questions that ask about "external" events and factors should be answered as "internal" responses. This will keep you from tripping up in an interview.
4) Practice in the mirror, you need to become very good at controlling your facial expressions. If I ask you about a behavior problem with a students and you grin, and then give me a canned response about how youve never had to do more then redirect or reseat a student, I know theres something more going on.
5) Consider observing a "good school", and then use that a s a template to whatever your "Spin" is. It needs to sound natural, so start practicing early.
At a fair, a recruiter its very unlikely to check up on the ranking of your previous school. They dont have time. Outside of a fair they can and do have more time but its unlikely they would look up your school rankings. Recruiters tend to lump new hires or newbies into 1) public school teachers and 2) private (independent) school teachers. Thats about as deep as they go. A teacher from a top magnet public school is not going to be viewed much differently then one from a failing school. There isnt much difference.
Recruiters dont want to hear about your work with disadvantaged, migrant, at risk, etc students. Recruiters want to hear that you can relate to THEIR students demographic. This means you may have to take some "creative license" in "extrapolating" your experience.
Some suggestions:
1) De-emphasis behavior management and classroom discipline. If all you talk about is how you kept those terrors in line, it will sound like all you are is a jailer. The vast majority of ISs have only a few minor discipline problems. In Denmark we had one "fight" all year. Students do what there teachers say, and generally are very well behaved. Especially in Asia, parents will be very supportive and telling a parent that their child was disrespectful or was disruptive will remedy the situation VERY quickly. Its a face issue.
2) Discuss your lesson plans, and curriculum planing "as if" you had grade level students or G&T students. If your discussing a lesson plan for 5th graders that sounds like its meant for 2nd graders it sends the message that you havent really taught your grade level curriculum material. Why would they hire you to teach 5th grade when you havent really taught 5th grade.
3) When it comes to ESL/SPED students you should frame your response in terms of differentiation and accommodation based on only having a few students. Unless your applying for an ESl/SPED position the understanding is that the majority of your students were general ed, main stream students. Thats what they are hiring you for is teaching a general ed classroom, if too much of your teaching focuses on special population students, the recruiter may wonder if you have the experience to teach the "normals".
4) Parents, and really coworkers and admins as well. I have to imagine that you had a lot of confrontation, with various groups and individuals. Forget about all of it. You got along with all your co-workers, your admins were supportive and strong mentors, and all your interactions with parents were cordial and productive. Saying anything else is just to likely to make you seem confrontational and unprofessional.
5) Complaints and "stories", forget those too, no one cares that you bought your own supplies or that your textbooks were 20 years old. Dont talk about metal detectors, or the pregnant 5th graders, or the fact your school had its own swat team, or drugs or guns or any of that. None of it is relevant to IS teaching and it only has the potential to reflect badly on you. Seriously even if you took a bullet to save a students life, all it says is that you wernt a strong enough teacher to find a job in a better/decent school, and that you didnt do any "real" teaching. You want to avoid anything that might suggest you were little more then a baby sitter.
Suggestions:
1) If your school is part of a much larger district that has good schools and bad school, consider listing the district name and not the school on your resume.
2) I would stage a model teaching demonstration, if you do one. Not only will it showcase your teaching talents and abilities but will frame the environment of where you taught in a positive POV.
3) Focus on you and not the classroom and how you developed yourself professionally as an educator. Interview questions that ask about "external" events and factors should be answered as "internal" responses. This will keep you from tripping up in an interview.
4) Practice in the mirror, you need to become very good at controlling your facial expressions. If I ask you about a behavior problem with a students and you grin, and then give me a canned response about how youve never had to do more then redirect or reseat a student, I know theres something more going on.
5) Consider observing a "good school", and then use that a s a template to whatever your "Spin" is. It needs to sound natural, so start practicing early.
When we interviewed for jobs at schools in the Middle East, my wife was warned by the superintendent that boys, at times, can be handful for some female teachers. He wanted to know if she could handle herself in that scenario. The classroom management skills she honed in public schools came in handy with that answer.
I see no reason to spin or lie about anything in your experience. I spent 22 years teaching very low income, poorly motivated students and still got hired at a good school at my first fair (and a full-on IB school when I had no IB experience). You're a teacher, period. Talk about teaching. Kids are kids.
I don't even see this coming up in a question. If I'm interviewing you I want to know about your educational philosophy, and whether or not you'll be a good fit for our school and organization. I'm not researching your current/former school and unless you mention it I won't even bother asking. I'll throw different types of scenarios your way and see how you respond.
Don't spin. Don't lie. It catches up to you in the end.
Don't spin. Don't lie. It catches up to you in the end.
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Tundra_Creature
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:34 am
I think it depends on the recruiter and where you'll be living, but overall I don't think you have that much to worry about in terms of spinning.
You should talk more about your skills as a teacher and your education philosophy. Focus on what you can bring to to the table; you have good classroom management skills and you're capable of adapting any unexpected situations. I also imagine that you must've had students with English language difficulties; an easily transferable skill if the international school has a higher level of ESL students.
If they ask about your school, I don't think there's any problem with being honest with them as long as you make it clear that you know that teaching in an International school is different.
I wish you the best of luck!
You should talk more about your skills as a teacher and your education philosophy. Focus on what you can bring to to the table; you have good classroom management skills and you're capable of adapting any unexpected situations. I also imagine that you must've had students with English language difficulties; an easily transferable skill if the international school has a higher level of ESL students.
If they ask about your school, I don't think there's any problem with being honest with them as long as you make it clear that you know that teaching in an International school is different.
I wish you the best of luck!
Comment
I have serious issues with some of that advice.
First, saying "you know that teaching in an International school is different" means nothing and has no value. i have a private pilots license but I cant go to an airline and say "I know flying a 777 is different" and expect them to give me command of an aircraft.
Second, Not all recruiters and heads are created equal. While recruiters wear name tags, they dont have warnings that "Im an elitest" or any other descriptors. You cant tell the crazy ones from the good ones. Recruiters are the same as candidates and at an interview they are putting on their best act and presence. Ive never met ANYONE in real life that was as they seemed or described themselves at an interview.
Third, Many candidates make the mistake of thinking that its them vs. the recruiter, and that the recruiter doesnt want to hire you and your goal is to change their mind. Thats not the case its you against the other ten or twenty people that are interviewing. If they have a choice between you and your at risk kids and a teacher who taught as a private school or with more socially advantaged students do you really think they will hire the teacher who has the experience with their student demographic or the one who doesnt?
First, saying "you know that teaching in an International school is different" means nothing and has no value. i have a private pilots license but I cant go to an airline and say "I know flying a 777 is different" and expect them to give me command of an aircraft.
Second, Not all recruiters and heads are created equal. While recruiters wear name tags, they dont have warnings that "Im an elitest" or any other descriptors. You cant tell the crazy ones from the good ones. Recruiters are the same as candidates and at an interview they are putting on their best act and presence. Ive never met ANYONE in real life that was as they seemed or described themselves at an interview.
Third, Many candidates make the mistake of thinking that its them vs. the recruiter, and that the recruiter doesnt want to hire you and your goal is to change their mind. Thats not the case its you against the other ten or twenty people that are interviewing. If they have a choice between you and your at risk kids and a teacher who taught as a private school or with more socially advantaged students do you really think they will hire the teacher who has the experience with their student demographic or the one who doesnt?
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Tundra_Creature
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:34 am
Re: Comment
Sorry, I don't mean to use those exact term of course. I should have clarified that. I just mean show that you're capable of doing the job even if it's different from your previous one. And to be fair, teaching at a different school setting and being a pilot are quite different careers. Had she said she was a pilot or doctor, etc. Then I would be giving different advice. As a teacher, you're sort of expected to be capable of teaching different students with different difficulties/strengths in different settings.
And you're right, not all recruiters or heads are created equal/the same. I just don't see much use in completely spinning one's experience.
Honestly, I think that they're going to go with whoever works best in the school. I know that's sounding naive and starry eyed, but I can't be sure unless I actually know the recruiter or school.
I know that my advice isn't perfect. The OP can take some of it that would be helpful and discard the stuff that they think wouldn't.
And you're right, not all recruiters or heads are created equal/the same. I just don't see much use in completely spinning one's experience.
Honestly, I think that they're going to go with whoever works best in the school. I know that's sounding naive and starry eyed, but I can't be sure unless I actually know the recruiter or school.
I know that my advice isn't perfect. The OP can take some of it that would be helpful and discard the stuff that they think wouldn't.
You have to understand something about PsyGuy, he plays the flipped coin angle with every bit of his advice. On the one hand if you were interested in DoDEA and coming from a well-to-do IS he would tell you that you don't have a chance, because DoDEA's demo isn't well-to-do students, it reflects more America public school students.
Yet what he doesn't tell you is that he has all of this experience at well-to-do IS's over the last 8 years, I believe 8 different schools in that timeframe, I've lost count. And yet he claims that he landed a DoDEA job having had only well-to-do IS experience as of late.
He's textbook troll and tells you the opposite of what you want to hear because he is so all knowing and powerful and runs ISR. It's amazing how he gives out advice and yet none of it ever, ever applies to him. In every instance he breaks through, beats the odds and gets that great job without have the experience that the school really wants, or needs.
He is so inspiring that one day Disney will make a movie about his life and how he's overcome all of the odds that he stacks against you, but somehow beats himself because he's superman...
Ignore him. If you can teach and will fit in with the culture of th school then you stand he same exact chance as the others that teach and would fit in with the culture but taught at a well-to-do IS. What will set you apart is how you answer their scenario questions if they ask any of you. If the interviewer asks nothing about you and your educational philosophies, and only talks about their shopping, or the school, run away as that is not a good sign. Good schools with good admin want to know about you and how you teach, not show you their new Prada handbag.
Yet what he doesn't tell you is that he has all of this experience at well-to-do IS's over the last 8 years, I believe 8 different schools in that timeframe, I've lost count. And yet he claims that he landed a DoDEA job having had only well-to-do IS experience as of late.
He's textbook troll and tells you the opposite of what you want to hear because he is so all knowing and powerful and runs ISR. It's amazing how he gives out advice and yet none of it ever, ever applies to him. In every instance he breaks through, beats the odds and gets that great job without have the experience that the school really wants, or needs.
He is so inspiring that one day Disney will make a movie about his life and how he's overcome all of the odds that he stacks against you, but somehow beats himself because he's superman...
Ignore him. If you can teach and will fit in with the culture of th school then you stand he same exact chance as the others that teach and would fit in with the culture but taught at a well-to-do IS. What will set you apart is how you answer their scenario questions if they ask any of you. If the interviewer asks nothing about you and your educational philosophies, and only talks about their shopping, or the school, run away as that is not a good sign. Good schools with good admin want to know about you and how you teach, not show you their new Prada handbag.
Amy
Talk about your experience exactly as it is. Talk about the successes you've had and the challenges you've faced and overcome. Most international school teachers and administrators come out of the public school system at some stage in their careers. I taught inner city for five years. If you can be successful teaching kids who have had little experience of academic success and present with behavioral issues, you will think you have died and gone to teacher heaven in most international schools. Any administrator with any sense at all will realize that. Do not lie or dissimulate or spin. It is completely unnecessary.
Comment
First, understand that Walter and wedodude are administrators, involved in recruiting. Their job is markedly easier the more "honest" and "open" candidates are. They have a bias and POV that favors themselves and their position.
Second, let's get to the merits of some of those comments.
If the culture of your teaching background is less a fit the the teaching culture of the other candidates for the same position, they pick them and not you. They are simply a better fit.
Saying you have the same chance as someone else is just ignorant. If you believe then go play the lottery, because your Chances are exactly the same as everyone else who plays.
Even that is a load of poop, your chances arent the same as the other candidates, because they aren't likely to be the same as you. Not all teachers are created equally, and their are real differences between teachers. The teacher with 5 years experience is different and has a better probability of getting the offer over the teacher who only has 2 years experience. Recruiting isn't random selection, among identicle candidates.
Second, let's get to the merits of some of those comments.
If the culture of your teaching background is less a fit the the teaching culture of the other candidates for the same position, they pick them and not you. They are simply a better fit.
Saying you have the same chance as someone else is just ignorant. If you believe then go play the lottery, because your Chances are exactly the same as everyone else who plays.
Even that is a load of poop, your chances arent the same as the other candidates, because they aren't likely to be the same as you. Not all teachers are created equally, and their are real differences between teachers. The teacher with 5 years experience is different and has a better probability of getting the offer over the teacher who only has 2 years experience. Recruiting isn't random selection, among identicle candidates.