I'm looking into getting certified, but the certification in my state requires a master's degree in psychological counseling in order to take the certification exam. I already have multiple graduate degrees and I'm really interested in just the college counseling. I've seen a couple of certificate programs in California (no master's degree, just college counseling) that might work, but I don't know how they'd be perceived by international schools.
What are the credentials of the college counselors at your school? Have you heard of anyone without a Master's/official state counseling getting a job college counseling?
I'm currently teaching at a very small international school, and am listed as the college counselor, but it's a small part of my duties. Ideally, I'd like to be at a small (but not THIS small) of a school and combine some teaching with some college admissions counseling.
Advice please!
College admissions counseling
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eion_padraig
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Most of my friends that do college counseling in international schools are also certified and working as school counselors. Having said that, I know of at least three international schools (one in Taiwan, one in Bulgaria, and one in Canada) where they have hired college counselors who just do that full time without school counseling background/training.
Within independent schools in the US, there are plenty of college counselors without school counseling degrees. Usually they have previous experience working as college admission officers or get brought into the office from the English or History departments and are mentored by experienced college counselors. The UCLA course that I figure you are referring to is a good starting point for someone who hasn't worked in college admissions and some US independent schools would like people to do it, but I doubt many international schools are aware of it. My understanding is the course focused on US higher education and depending on the school, the US may be one of many countries where international students enroll for university.
While there are some college counseling positions, there don't seem to be many schools that do that yet. I wonder if in the future more schools will have separate college counselors because at least in the public system in the US, many school counselors do not have the time or support of administration to visit colleges and attend professional conferences related to college admission (NACAC, WACAC, SACAC, PCACAC, etc). None of the school counseling professional organizations or accreditation agencies (ASCA, ASA, or CACREP) are pushing for training related to college admission to be part of school counseling programs. Some school counseling programs have added one class focused on this issue, but many have not. That is why, in part, schools like UCLA have developed their program relating to college counseling. The folks who really understand college admission issues in the US have either worked in college admission or better yet, worked in US independent schools where they have been able to do college visits and attend professional conferences.
So, for the time being, I think the places that will hire college counselors are few, but it may change over time. I do think the UCLA program is good, but I don't think many international will be familiar with it and to be a great candidate, you'll want to be familiar at least with other countries where a lot of students go for university (Australia, Canada, UK, perhaps Ireland). Two really good places to learn about international admission are the Overseas ACAC conference which is held every summer in July in the US and Canada; http://www.oacac.com/. Also CIS has some admissions related events that are worthwhile; http://www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=263
. These could be good networking places and places to track down jobs. Unfortunately, the OACAC conference is already full for this year.
Good luck.
Within independent schools in the US, there are plenty of college counselors without school counseling degrees. Usually they have previous experience working as college admission officers or get brought into the office from the English or History departments and are mentored by experienced college counselors. The UCLA course that I figure you are referring to is a good starting point for someone who hasn't worked in college admissions and some US independent schools would like people to do it, but I doubt many international schools are aware of it. My understanding is the course focused on US higher education and depending on the school, the US may be one of many countries where international students enroll for university.
While there are some college counseling positions, there don't seem to be many schools that do that yet. I wonder if in the future more schools will have separate college counselors because at least in the public system in the US, many school counselors do not have the time or support of administration to visit colleges and attend professional conferences related to college admission (NACAC, WACAC, SACAC, PCACAC, etc). None of the school counseling professional organizations or accreditation agencies (ASCA, ASA, or CACREP) are pushing for training related to college admission to be part of school counseling programs. Some school counseling programs have added one class focused on this issue, but many have not. That is why, in part, schools like UCLA have developed their program relating to college counseling. The folks who really understand college admission issues in the US have either worked in college admission or better yet, worked in US independent schools where they have been able to do college visits and attend professional conferences.
So, for the time being, I think the places that will hire college counselors are few, but it may change over time. I do think the UCLA program is good, but I don't think many international will be familiar with it and to be a great candidate, you'll want to be familiar at least with other countries where a lot of students go for university (Australia, Canada, UK, perhaps Ireland). Two really good places to learn about international admission are the Overseas ACAC conference which is held every summer in July in the US and Canada; http://www.oacac.com/. Also CIS has some admissions related events that are worthwhile; http://www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=263
. These could be good networking places and places to track down jobs. Unfortunately, the OACAC conference is already full for this year.
Good luck.
thank you eion
Sheesh, I should have checked for existing threads first....here's a dandy and it's just a few months old.
http://internationalschoolsreview.com/v ... ght=#11534
Please continue to add more if the inspiration strikes...especially what's happening at individual schools.
PS, the UC San Diego extension certificate is what I was investigating.....sounds like a reasonable scope and about $1500. I read the above post and can certainly see that a mental health background would be useful. I just can't dedicate the time/energy/money that a whole new master's would cost.
The OACAC conference sounds perfect....too bad it's full. I thought maybe I could go and hangout to see when/if someone doesn't show, but they have a waiting list and it's already full too. Drats.
http://internationalschoolsreview.com/v ... ght=#11534
Please continue to add more if the inspiration strikes...especially what's happening at individual schools.
PS, the UC San Diego extension certificate is what I was investigating.....sounds like a reasonable scope and about $1500. I read the above post and can certainly see that a mental health background would be useful. I just can't dedicate the time/energy/money that a whole new master's would cost.
The OACAC conference sounds perfect....too bad it's full. I thought maybe I could go and hangout to see when/if someone doesn't show, but they have a waiting list and it's already full too. Drats.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
OACAC has been hitting capacity for the past 4 or 5 years at least. The sign up usually starts in February or March and by late April it is getting pretty full.
It wouldn't surprise me if the UCSD program took inspiration from UCLA's program. UCLA was the first to come out with something like that as far as I know.
I agree that a school counseling degree is a lot of effort to be trained for doing college counseling. It took some time convincing my wife that it would be worthwhile to go for a school counseling degree over another MA with fewer credits and less difficulty fulfilling an internship and practicum. But I knew it would provide better opportunities going from US independent schools to international schools.
Over time I think the international schools will have to hire specialist in college counseling because the younger school counselors (at least in the US, which has a complicated higher education system) largely don't know about college admission and financial aid policies.
Good luck.
It wouldn't surprise me if the UCSD program took inspiration from UCLA's program. UCLA was the first to come out with something like that as far as I know.
I agree that a school counseling degree is a lot of effort to be trained for doing college counseling. It took some time convincing my wife that it would be worthwhile to go for a school counseling degree over another MA with fewer credits and less difficulty fulfilling an internship and practicum. But I knew it would provide better opportunities going from US independent schools to international schools.
Over time I think the international schools will have to hire specialist in college counseling because the younger school counselors (at least in the US, which has a complicated higher education system) largely don't know about college admission and financial aid policies.
Good luck.
Me
This year saw a BIG increase in counselor positions that were college advising positions. I know several that had admissions experience and know counselor certificate who were hired, and they were hired at tier 1 schools. I dont think you personally need to do anything more if you already have the college counseling experience if you already have a Masters. I would start applying and see who bites. I also dont believe the certificate program your looking at will mean very much if you dont have a state certificate as a school counselor.
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interteach
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
Interteach,
When you say "get certified" in the last line of your post, do you mean the whole MA/state certification or the "mini certification" in CA (either UC SanDiego/or UCLA)? I know full-blown counseling certification would be helpful, but it would take two years (and that's two years of being stateside).....are there alternatives out there that would 1)get me the credential I need and 2) teach/expose me to enough of psychological counseling to be more helpful to students?
Thanks for your thoughts.
When you say "get certified" in the last line of your post, do you mean the whole MA/state certification or the "mini certification" in CA (either UC SanDiego/or UCLA)? I know full-blown counseling certification would be helpful, but it would take two years (and that's two years of being stateside).....are there alternatives out there that would 1)get me the credential I need and 2) teach/expose me to enough of psychological counseling to be more helpful to students?
Thanks for your thoughts.
What???
I have to disagree with Interteach on 2 points.
1) Adding a state counseling certificate is often a lot of work, its not something you can typically do in an alternative certification program, and is almost always part of a counseling focused masters degree. As part of that degree you usually have an internship or practicum hours to complete as well. Thats a 2 year program, and about $20K.
2) School Counseling positions at ISs are far less focused on the mental health aspect, that MANY programs emphasis. It is much more a student management position. In that regard few programs have any college advising course work (if any at all).
1) Adding a state counseling certificate is often a lot of work, its not something you can typically do in an alternative certification program, and is almost always part of a counseling focused masters degree. As part of that degree you usually have an internship or practicum hours to complete as well. Thats a 2 year program, and about $20K.
2) School Counseling positions at ISs are far less focused on the mental health aspect, that MANY programs emphasis. It is much more a student management position. In that regard few programs have any college advising course work (if any at all).
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interteach
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
Sorry
I just dont concur with that description. The qualifier in this case is the "less than fully developed country", i can imagine you deal with a lot more mental health issues, then in a tier 1 school in a western or developed country. I agree that counselors wear many more hats and have a much broader range of tasks and duties, but generally at IS's the mental health aspect is a much smaller aspect. A counselor seldom has to use psychology in a professional setting. An IS counselors daily tasks are much more "administrative", resembling more those of an assistant principal then a mental health professional.
In the last 5 years or so there has been an increase in the number of students pursuing undergraduate studies abroad. Before this in the past a student did their undergrad work locally, and then did a graduate degree (typically an MBA) abroad. With more students going overseas earlier, the college advising and guidance counselor program has become a full time position, especially at large ISs.
I agree at a smaller or lower tier school where your the only counselor (or one of 2 counselors), you really have to be a generalist. As an upper secondary counselor as part of a larger school counselor work group though your job is going to focus more heavily on college advising/admissions tasks. Counselor certification programs have little if any coursework/training in that regard. Alternative programs exist, but they still have to meet a states minimum certification requirements, which typically prescribe so many hours of contact hours, or coursework. In practicality, unless you already come from a mental health background (say as a school psychologist), its either a masters program, or a certification program that would be close to completing a masters anyway. Again, these programs offer little if any college admissions/advising training, though they will make you more marketable as a counselor. If you already have the college advising experience, a university program certificate is not going to have much value. the only real experience that would make you more marketable would be working in a university admissions department, preferably at an elite prestigious university.
In the last 5 years or so there has been an increase in the number of students pursuing undergraduate studies abroad. Before this in the past a student did their undergrad work locally, and then did a graduate degree (typically an MBA) abroad. With more students going overseas earlier, the college advising and guidance counselor program has become a full time position, especially at large ISs.
I agree at a smaller or lower tier school where your the only counselor (or one of 2 counselors), you really have to be a generalist. As an upper secondary counselor as part of a larger school counselor work group though your job is going to focus more heavily on college advising/admissions tasks. Counselor certification programs have little if any coursework/training in that regard. Alternative programs exist, but they still have to meet a states minimum certification requirements, which typically prescribe so many hours of contact hours, or coursework. In practicality, unless you already come from a mental health background (say as a school psychologist), its either a masters program, or a certification program that would be close to completing a masters anyway. Again, these programs offer little if any college admissions/advising training, though they will make you more marketable as a counselor. If you already have the college advising experience, a university program certificate is not going to have much value. the only real experience that would make you more marketable would be working in a university admissions department, preferably at an elite prestigious university.
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eion_padraig
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- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm