Hello all,
My wife and I have recently been offered positions at a third tier bilingual school in China. The salary, relative to the cost of living is good. There are some things we don't LOVE about the contract, but all-in-all, we are satisfied with the salary. The question I have deals with my teaching assignment. I would be teaching 1/2 time and performing administrative/consultative duties for the rest of the time. For this I would be paid as if I were teaching full-time. I have an extensive background in language acquisition and they would like me to train their teachers in some of the 2nd language acquisition methodologies that I have experience with. I am excited by the idea of doing this because it is my passion, but I don't want to be taken advantage of either. I understand that things like this are negotiable, but I was just wondering if anyone has any input/experience with something like this.
Thanks for any help anyone can provide. I have been lurking for several months and have benefited greatly from many opinions here.
Coordinator vs Teacher Salary Question
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liketotravel
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:58 pm
I'm on a 60% load teacher/coordinator contract and I receive a 4K stipend over a teacher salary. I end up working 15 hours or so more then a regular teacher (reason why I'm awake at 5 AM on a Sat. for an event in in two hours). I wish I made more, but I knew what I was getting into, but I'm in Asia and working extra and hard is expected.
I would try to negociate more money, I tried and didn't prevail, but now the I have a few years of success under my belt I gave it another try and instead of pay they gave me extra PD.
I would try to negociate more money, I tried and didn't prevail, but now the I have a few years of success under my belt I gave it another try and instead of pay they gave me extra PD.
Lucky
Your actually lucky. The school is paying you full time and your working full time (half teaching, half admin/support). Basically the admin/support/consulting duties arent going to amount to much. Teachers will be either teaching classes themselves or preping classes to have any time to be trained. Your training is going to maybe be a presentation or two a term.
The real admin duties your going to be doing will be paperwork mostly. You will probably be given "tasks" and "responsibilities" that appear to be coordinator/training/administrative/consulting, but it will just be an illusion. Youll submit your deliverables and be complimented, and then whatever it is will be shelved or discarded.
The school basically didnt have a full time job for you, so they "made one".
The real admin duties your going to be doing will be paperwork mostly. You will probably be given "tasks" and "responsibilities" that appear to be coordinator/training/administrative/consulting, but it will just be an illusion. Youll submit your deliverables and be complimented, and then whatever it is will be shelved or discarded.
The school basically didnt have a full time job for you, so they "made one".
I got a couple of thousand extra a semester and overtime for the some oftheclasses I taught since I was still a full time teacher. So grossly overpaid. In return, a couple of class observations, prepping lab handouts and supervising exam grading. 1 report at the end.
In total, maybe an extra 10hours of work. But I had two assistants dedicated to lab work and marking.
In total, maybe an extra 10hours of work. But I had two assistants dedicated to lab work and marking.
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rangerchuck
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:04 am
Thank you for your input. In lieu of airfare upfront, they are proposing a stipend at the end of our contract to pay for most of our round-trip airfare. I'm trying to negotiate that flights are included and paid for by them at the onset of our contract. We shall see. Also, any feedback anyone can give on the "negotiations dance" in China relative to how much give and take one can typically expect/hope for would be helpful as this is our first foray into international education. Again, many thanks.
RUN
To warn you, any school that doesnt provide airfare upfront, and "reimburses" airfare AFTER the contract is a warning sign that they have a VERY hard time keeping teachers. What it means is they have a lot of people that break contract and leave mid year. Thats bad, pulling a runner is usually a teachers last resort.
A compensation package for china should include:
1) Airfare: Roundtrip economy provided and paid for upfront by the schools (Some schools will book one way at the beginning, and one way at the end). About the only thing you can negotiate is how many flight (in the case of family). Top schools will fly everyone, other will do employee +1. At a minimum they just fly the employee.
2) Medical insurance: They should pay the premiums OR provide an allowance for you to choose an insurance plan (this is becoming more popular in Asia). Standard is worldwide coverage, cheap schools only provide local. Top tier schools will cover your whole family. Bottom tier schools will just cover the employee.
3) Tuition waivers: They should provide a waiver for each of your kids. Its really a cheap point of negotiation. Soem schools will say 2 waivers, or 1 waiver per employee, but the cost of a student for them is so negligible that you should be easily able to negotiate a waiver for all your kids. If they wont budge on this, then its a sign that everything at this school will be a fight for resources.
4) Housing: They should either provide an apartment directly, or provide an allowance. Some schools require first year teachers to accept provided housing, with the option for an allowance the second year. The primary reason is they dont have a property agent or relocation specialist. They figure it will take you a year to really know the place and find a place you will like. Many apartments are limited to 1-2 bedrooms. Anything more then 2 bedrooms will be hard to find, and or expensive. A school that only has 2 bedroom apartments may give a housing allowance for an outside apartment. The apartment should cover the rent, and the majority if not all the utilities. Usually the allowance is fixed, and you cant really negotiate it.
5) Relocation Allowances: this includes the various moving, settling in, furniture, shipping, baggage allowances. Theres some negotiation room, but it isnt much. A school that will pay for a couple extra bags, isnt going to move your house. Some schools will give a high shipping allowance but no settling in allowance. The best bet here is to try and negotiate a set amount for all "relocation" type allowances. in cash
5) Bonuses: This year is supposed to see a change in China as international teachers pay into the national pension program. That said most schools giuve their teachers a bonus of 1/2 to one months salary as an end of year bonus. You can invest this into a retirement plan, or just bank it.
6) Other: This can include anything from free meals at the school, interest free loans for a car, metro transportation passes, professional development funds, end of year bonuses, etc. Usually whatever the school gives is what the school gives. The only negotiation room is stipends for extra duties. usually they are more work they they are worth, but your contract may be contingent on accepting the extra duties.
7) Salary: When you negotiate anything that has too do with "cash" in a contract no matter how its listed, it really is just negotiating salary. Minimum for an international teacher really is 20K RMB, a tier 1 school should be in the 30K RMB, elite and admin salaries are in the 40K RMB range.
A compensation package for china should include:
1) Airfare: Roundtrip economy provided and paid for upfront by the schools (Some schools will book one way at the beginning, and one way at the end). About the only thing you can negotiate is how many flight (in the case of family). Top schools will fly everyone, other will do employee +1. At a minimum they just fly the employee.
2) Medical insurance: They should pay the premiums OR provide an allowance for you to choose an insurance plan (this is becoming more popular in Asia). Standard is worldwide coverage, cheap schools only provide local. Top tier schools will cover your whole family. Bottom tier schools will just cover the employee.
3) Tuition waivers: They should provide a waiver for each of your kids. Its really a cheap point of negotiation. Soem schools will say 2 waivers, or 1 waiver per employee, but the cost of a student for them is so negligible that you should be easily able to negotiate a waiver for all your kids. If they wont budge on this, then its a sign that everything at this school will be a fight for resources.
4) Housing: They should either provide an apartment directly, or provide an allowance. Some schools require first year teachers to accept provided housing, with the option for an allowance the second year. The primary reason is they dont have a property agent or relocation specialist. They figure it will take you a year to really know the place and find a place you will like. Many apartments are limited to 1-2 bedrooms. Anything more then 2 bedrooms will be hard to find, and or expensive. A school that only has 2 bedroom apartments may give a housing allowance for an outside apartment. The apartment should cover the rent, and the majority if not all the utilities. Usually the allowance is fixed, and you cant really negotiate it.
5) Relocation Allowances: this includes the various moving, settling in, furniture, shipping, baggage allowances. Theres some negotiation room, but it isnt much. A school that will pay for a couple extra bags, isnt going to move your house. Some schools will give a high shipping allowance but no settling in allowance. The best bet here is to try and negotiate a set amount for all "relocation" type allowances. in cash
5) Bonuses: This year is supposed to see a change in China as international teachers pay into the national pension program. That said most schools giuve their teachers a bonus of 1/2 to one months salary as an end of year bonus. You can invest this into a retirement plan, or just bank it.
6) Other: This can include anything from free meals at the school, interest free loans for a car, metro transportation passes, professional development funds, end of year bonuses, etc. Usually whatever the school gives is what the school gives. The only negotiation room is stipends for extra duties. usually they are more work they they are worth, but your contract may be contingent on accepting the extra duties.
7) Salary: When you negotiate anything that has too do with "cash" in a contract no matter how its listed, it really is just negotiating salary. Minimum for an international teacher really is 20K RMB, a tier 1 school should be in the 30K RMB, elite and admin salaries are in the 40K RMB range.
Hi PsyGuy,
I'm sure you'll take some abuse about the "upfront airfare" comment, but I'm just asking here...
At my next place of employment (in Beijing), they have asked me to pay for the tickets and they will reimburse me "when I arrive in Beijing". Do you consider this a warning sign? OR, are you saying that schools that reimburse "at the END of a contract" are the ones that are trouble?
For background information, this school does promise "annual flights", but the amount they've quoted me won't be quite enough for a roundtrip ticket from NYC to Beijing. I'm planning on buying a one-way ticket from NYC to Beijing and then hoping that the school will have deals for r/t tickets that fit into their allowance.
(for those of you who are going to call me stupid for asking PsyGuy anything, I'm really asking anyone's opinion here. I take all of what you all have to say with a grain of salt, and am just canvassing opinions.)
The reason I ask is that I haven't heard a bad word about this place yet and the fact that they aren't "providing me with a first ticket" has actually surprised me. The place I'm at now flew me in initially, sending me e-tickets that they paid for up front.
Thanks for input from anyone, especially if you happen to be in Beijing and know the scoop about what most schools there do about initial flights.
I'm sure you'll take some abuse about the "upfront airfare" comment, but I'm just asking here...
At my next place of employment (in Beijing), they have asked me to pay for the tickets and they will reimburse me "when I arrive in Beijing". Do you consider this a warning sign? OR, are you saying that schools that reimburse "at the END of a contract" are the ones that are trouble?
For background information, this school does promise "annual flights", but the amount they've quoted me won't be quite enough for a roundtrip ticket from NYC to Beijing. I'm planning on buying a one-way ticket from NYC to Beijing and then hoping that the school will have deals for r/t tickets that fit into their allowance.
(for those of you who are going to call me stupid for asking PsyGuy anything, I'm really asking anyone's opinion here. I take all of what you all have to say with a grain of salt, and am just canvassing opinions.)
The reason I ask is that I haven't heard a bad word about this place yet and the fact that they aren't "providing me with a first ticket" has actually surprised me. The place I'm at now flew me in initially, sending me e-tickets that they paid for up front.
Thanks for input from anyone, especially if you happen to be in Beijing and know the scoop about what most schools there do about initial flights.
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liketotravel
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:58 pm
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: RUN
[quote="PsyGuy"]To warn you, any school that doesnt provide airfare upfront, and "reimburses" airfare AFTER the contract is a warning sign that they have a VERY hard time keeping teachers. What it means is they have a lot of people that break contract and leave mid year. Thats bad, pulling a runner is usually a teachers last resort.
quote]
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Simply not true. Many, many schools, including some top tiers, reimburse for airfare. It's just easier for the school and for the teacher to arrange your own flights. It is not an indicator in any way of the quality or turnover of the school.
quote]
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Simply not true. Many, many schools, including some top tiers, reimburse for airfare. It's just easier for the school and for the teacher to arrange your own flights. It is not an indicator in any way of the quality or turnover of the school.
Reply
No my warning is schools that reimburse at the END of the contract, or your first year. Though for a school like Dulwich its not an issue, but i personally believe a school should have it enough together to buy tickets for their staff. If youve got a family of 4 going to China, thats $4K to expect a teacher to float up front, and you end up being the one that is taking all the risk.
If they wont pay for a teacher upfront, I have to ask "why". That whole its easier for them is BS, of course its easier for them, lots of things would be easier for them too, like health insurance and paying salaries. Whats so hard about it really? Booking a ticket online is a minute on Kayak, 5 minutes on a carriers website, a copy of your passport and a credit card.
If they wont pay for a teacher upfront, I have to ask "why". That whole its easier for them is BS, of course its easier for them, lots of things would be easier for them too, like health insurance and paying salaries. Whats so hard about it really? Booking a ticket online is a minute on Kayak, 5 minutes on a carriers website, a copy of your passport and a credit card.