There is a lot reference to "Tiers" on this forum when talking about international schools--specifically Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3...(is there a Tier 4 or even a Tier 5???)
Would someone mind giving a cross-section of what constitutes Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 (and beyond, if necessary)?
Which schools, areas, regions, or countries are prime examples of the various Tiers?
And--is this Tier talk really about nothing at all?
Please advise--and thanks!
Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3...
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overseasvet2
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:50 pm
tier system
It's all completely subjective. It's language used by international teachers to categorize the growing numbers of international schools. There are lots of previous posts about this but in a nutshell (I know others will chime in):
Tier 1: Schools with known reputations, solid programs and good pay packages. They are often U.S. embassy assisted schools and the choice of most of the diplomats in any given country.
Tier 2: Often a smaller competitor of the above. You need to be careful because some have mostly a local population - not a problem if you know what you're getting into. Many teachers prefer to work in schools with an international student body.
Tier 3: Mostly for profit schools that are popping up all over. If you look at the reviews, there seem to be a lot in China and the Gulf area.
It doesn't take very long in the int'l school circuit before you get to know the reputation of various schools. There are teachers who've been happy at all levels of schools - depends on what you're looking for.
Tier 1: Schools with known reputations, solid programs and good pay packages. They are often U.S. embassy assisted schools and the choice of most of the diplomats in any given country.
Tier 2: Often a smaller competitor of the above. You need to be careful because some have mostly a local population - not a problem if you know what you're getting into. Many teachers prefer to work in schools with an international student body.
Tier 3: Mostly for profit schools that are popping up all over. If you look at the reviews, there seem to be a lot in China and the Gulf area.
It doesn't take very long in the int'l school circuit before you get to know the reputation of various schools. There are teachers who've been happy at all levels of schools - depends on what you're looking for.
Response
There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region. Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to
1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.
Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.
COMPENSATION:
Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:
1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).
WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):
1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?
2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?
3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?
4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?
5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?
6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....
JOB SEARCH:
Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)
Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...
Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.
"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region. Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.
I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
Sure
Sure its reasonable if you want to narrow your field of schools even more. There are some great schools that serve largely the local population.
Personally (looking over shoulder) i tend to avoid schools with a majority of "north american" students, you end up with the same spoiled, entitled, elitist, students who think they know everything, you would have had back in the states, and i left the states so i could get away from those kinds of students.
I get the sense you want an "American School Experience", just in a foreign location? Hard to blame you if you do, you figure it will be easier to teach within a "system" and "environment" you already know and are familiar with. With a majority of the students being from north america, you get all kinds of benefits: Fewer language barrier problems, familiarity with the curriculum, youd "relate" better with the kids, and the parents would identify with you more, Thats just a few benefits, nope wouldnt blame you at all.
Personally (looking over shoulder) i tend to avoid schools with a majority of "north american" students, you end up with the same spoiled, entitled, elitist, students who think they know everything, you would have had back in the states, and i left the states so i could get away from those kinds of students.
I get the sense you want an "American School Experience", just in a foreign location? Hard to blame you if you do, you figure it will be easier to teach within a "system" and "environment" you already know and are familiar with. With a majority of the students being from north america, you get all kinds of benefits: Fewer language barrier problems, familiarity with the curriculum, youd "relate" better with the kids, and the parents would identify with you more, Thats just a few benefits, nope wouldnt blame you at all.
Based on That
well based on that my suggestion's are:
1) Go with a "large" school campus, around a 1,000. Smaller schools tend to only have one counselor.
2) Most students at IS's want to go to either USA or UK universities. Not a whole lot to learn really, and you will have a harder time with anything local if you dont understand the language. Building networks locally requires at least some familiarity with the local or target language.
3) For counselors all else being equal, dont have as "stressful" a job description as they would back in the USA.
4) Stick to Asia (outside Japan, Hong Kong, and Singapore) if you want savings and a comfortable lifestyle. Its hard to break even in europe
5) Sounds like the pets issue is really a non issue.
1) Go with a "large" school campus, around a 1,000. Smaller schools tend to only have one counselor.
2) Most students at IS's want to go to either USA or UK universities. Not a whole lot to learn really, and you will have a harder time with anything local if you dont understand the language. Building networks locally requires at least some familiarity with the local or target language.
3) For counselors all else being equal, dont have as "stressful" a job description as they would back in the USA.
4) Stick to Asia (outside Japan, Hong Kong, and Singapore) if you want savings and a comfortable lifestyle. Its hard to break even in europe
5) Sounds like the pets issue is really a non issue.
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lightstays
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:07 am
- Location: Americas
@psyguy
>>i tend to avoid schools with a majority of "north american" students, you end up with the same spoiled, entitled, elitist, students who think they know everything, you would have had back in the states>>
Again, I think this depends so heavily on one's own experience. I have, by far, discovered some of the most spoiled, entitled and elitist students among the kids of the local ruling class where I teach now. I would sell my spleen to work with spoiled, entitled and elitist North Americans over this crowd.
>>i tend to avoid schools with a majority of "north american" students, you end up with the same spoiled, entitled, elitist, students who think they know everything, you would have had back in the states>>
Again, I think this depends so heavily on one's own experience. I have, by far, discovered some of the most spoiled, entitled and elitist students among the kids of the local ruling class where I teach now. I would sell my spleen to work with spoiled, entitled and elitist North Americans over this crowd.
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Rhaegar Targaryen
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- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:10 am
Thank you, everyone, for the replies and information.
This has been most helpful!
One more thing--those in the know and an extremely worldly--give concrete examples/comparison of a Tier 1, a Tier 2, and a Tier 3 within a region or country (ie Latin America, and/or Thailand, and/or Brazil, and/or Colombia, and/or Middle East, etc.)
:D
This has been most helpful!
One more thing--those in the know and an extremely worldly--give concrete examples/comparison of a Tier 1, a Tier 2, and a Tier 3 within a region or country (ie Latin America, and/or Thailand, and/or Brazil, and/or Colombia, and/or Middle East, etc.)
:D
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overseasvet2
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:50 pm
concrete examples
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Tier 1
International School of Kuala Lumpur
Tier 2
Mt. Kiara
Alice Smith (British)
Tier 3
Fairview
Tier 1
International School of Kuala Lumpur
Tier 2
Mt. Kiara
Alice Smith (British)
Tier 3
Fairview
I visited the Fairview website after following the link from the IBO site.
I didn't like the website, looked amateurish, but is it really that bad?
I always take a look (if possible) at the teachers teaching my subject and the IB DP English teacher there looks well qualified enough with MA Eng., MA Hist., MEd., MPhil Eng., PGCTE., DCA!
I didn't like the website, looked amateurish, but is it really that bad?
I always take a look (if possible) at the teachers teaching my subject and the IB DP English teacher there looks well qualified enough with MA Eng., MA Hist., MEd., MPhil Eng., PGCTE., DCA!
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Beijing
[quote="PsyGuy"]Sure, hope it helps, for Beijing, China:
Elite: ISB (Beijing)
1st Tier: BCIS
2nd Tier: CIS (Canadian)
3rd Tier: Atlantic Education International[/quote]
You seem to be missing a few:
1st Tier: ISB, WAB
2nd Tier: BCIS (but they pay virtually the same as 1st Tier), DCB, BSB
3rd Tier: CIS (they pay $10K less than the 2nd tier), Harrow, BISS, YCIS
Sub 3rd Tier: BIBA, BIBS, THIS
All that being said, any of these schools, down to the 3rd could be a good fit for some teachers and even one of the Sub 3rds wouldn't be a total disaster.
Elite: ISB (Beijing)
1st Tier: BCIS
2nd Tier: CIS (Canadian)
3rd Tier: Atlantic Education International[/quote]
You seem to be missing a few:
1st Tier: ISB, WAB
2nd Tier: BCIS (but they pay virtually the same as 1st Tier), DCB, BSB
3rd Tier: CIS (they pay $10K less than the 2nd tier), Harrow, BISS, YCIS
Sub 3rd Tier: BIBA, BIBS, THIS
All that being said, any of these schools, down to the 3rd could be a good fit for some teachers and even one of the Sub 3rds wouldn't be a total disaster.