Hi, I am looking for a bit of information, any tidbits would be helpful.
I am hoping to apply for school counseling positions abroad for 2012, and am unsure of where to start, if I'm a competitive applicant, if I should join ISS or SA?
About Me:
Graduating with M.ed in School Counseling in June, so I will be licensed and will have completed a 900 hour internship.
2+ years living in Moldova as a Peace Corps Volunteer. I taught 6-12 grade health education and community health.
2 years working in the Mental health field. 1 year with Treatment foster care, and another year as a case manager for young adults with co-occuring mental health and substance abuse issues.
4+ years working with High School students at the YMCA, and the Pacific Science Center teaching/leading volunteer and leadership programs.
Any advice would be helpful!
Crystal
New School Counselor: High School Pref
Problems
OK, so first a question, will you be certified by your states board of education as a counselor, or will you just have your states school psychologist/school specialist license? I ask because usually before you can be a counselor in the states I'm certified in, you need 2-3 years teaching experience.
So first some good points for you then some challenges, and the challenges will be sizable:
1) There are a lot of counseling positions this year, more so then usual, which makes for a better demand.
2) You actually have some clinical work experience, I've met several conselors who had nothing but there internship going into being a counselor. You also have some teaching experience, given its Peace Corp, and it sounds kinda dated, you have experience in an international setting and working with children.
OK now the problems, and again they are pretty major.
1) Your not licensed now. The majority of hiring is going on right now, and it's mostly done by February. You won't be done until June which is pretty late in the game, there might be some positions left but it's unlikely they are going to be at good schools, or in desirable regions. Principals and heads won't consider you seriously until you have your degree and certification in hand.
2) You dont really have any experience. Schools generally don't consider experince earned prior to certification, and honestly all your experience sounds like volunteer stuff, which doesn't really count. Counselors are typically part of the admin team at a school, and you have no real experience in a school setting.
So to your question, I don't think you will be competitive, but I do think you can be successful as long as you keep your expectations on the low end. I low tier 2 or tier 3 school cold pick you up.
So first some good points for you then some challenges, and the challenges will be sizable:
1) There are a lot of counseling positions this year, more so then usual, which makes for a better demand.
2) You actually have some clinical work experience, I've met several conselors who had nothing but there internship going into being a counselor. You also have some teaching experience, given its Peace Corp, and it sounds kinda dated, you have experience in an international setting and working with children.
OK now the problems, and again they are pretty major.
1) Your not licensed now. The majority of hiring is going on right now, and it's mostly done by February. You won't be done until June which is pretty late in the game, there might be some positions left but it's unlikely they are going to be at good schools, or in desirable regions. Principals and heads won't consider you seriously until you have your degree and certification in hand.
2) You dont really have any experience. Schools generally don't consider experince earned prior to certification, and honestly all your experience sounds like volunteer stuff, which doesn't really count. Counselors are typically part of the admin team at a school, and you have no real experience in a school setting.
So to your question, I don't think you will be competitive, but I do think you can be successful as long as you keep your expectations on the low end. I low tier 2 or tier 3 school cold pick you up.
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ccappuccio
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:11 am
thanks
Thank you for the thoughts. Though some of the assumptions you made weren't entirely accurate.
States vary in the expectations they have for school counselors, in Washington you need a Masters degree to become licensed. To be a licensed counselor you need 2000 hours of supervision, which usually takes 2-3 years and people work in community agencies.
The majority of my work has been paid. The last two years of mental health work was paid, as was my work with the YMCA and the Pacific Science Center. The only volunteer position was the Peace Corps '06-'08, so a little dated... But I'm also teaching science camps.
I have worked in school settings, foster care (I worked with the school systems of the youth I was working with) and my internship. I work 3 full days a week, 7-4, and will be there the entire year.
States vary in the expectations they have for school counselors, in Washington you need a Masters degree to become licensed. To be a licensed counselor you need 2000 hours of supervision, which usually takes 2-3 years and people work in community agencies.
The majority of my work has been paid. The last two years of mental health work was paid, as was my work with the YMCA and the Pacific Science Center. The only volunteer position was the Peace Corps '06-'08, so a little dated... But I'm also teaching science camps.
I have worked in school settings, foster care (I worked with the school systems of the youth I was working with) and my internship. I work 3 full days a week, 7-4, and will be there the entire year.
Thanks :)
Thanks for the update, i did indeed have to make some assumptions (nice little fast track option your state has for counselors/psychologists. Combining the certificate for both. Thats nice it really is).
My mistake on the volunteering, I read "teaching/leading volunteer" and concluded it was a volunteer position, and the mental health work was part of your internship (an I assumed it was unpaid).
So I dont want to sound like im rubbing your nose in anything and while you have clinical experience, and your work with foster kids was adjunct to a school setting, you havent worked "IN" a school, do I have that right?
I ask because thats the only thing that for all practical purposes matters. International Schools dont count pre certification experience, and pseudo related experience doesnt really count when compared to actual school setting experience that everyone else in the candidate pool is going to have. This is what I and any admin who is hiring you is going to ask "How many years of K-12 teaching/counseling experience do you have in a school setting?" I mean there goig to look at your resume and I imagine they arent going to see the word "school" in any of the names of the places you worked are they?
and I know your new, and you want your experience to have value and to count for something, thats only natural. Im not saying its hopeless, and while you didnt say what your expectations are or where you would like to be, maybe you could tell us more what youd like out of an international school placement?
My mistake on the volunteering, I read "teaching/leading volunteer" and concluded it was a volunteer position, and the mental health work was part of your internship (an I assumed it was unpaid).
So I dont want to sound like im rubbing your nose in anything and while you have clinical experience, and your work with foster kids was adjunct to a school setting, you havent worked "IN" a school, do I have that right?
I ask because thats the only thing that for all practical purposes matters. International Schools dont count pre certification experience, and pseudo related experience doesnt really count when compared to actual school setting experience that everyone else in the candidate pool is going to have. This is what I and any admin who is hiring you is going to ask "How many years of K-12 teaching/counseling experience do you have in a school setting?" I mean there goig to look at your resume and I imagine they arent going to see the word "school" in any of the names of the places you worked are they?
and I know your new, and you want your experience to have value and to count for something, thats only natural. Im not saying its hopeless, and while you didnt say what your expectations are or where you would like to be, maybe you could tell us more what youd like out of an international school placement?
Go for it
Hi crystal,
Most applicants have already been sending out letters of interest, and have signed up for job fairs. I think that you are a bit behind. I'd recommend search Cambridge or UNI.
I know of several counseling applicants in your shoes last year, and they found jobs at decent schools. Focus on describing everything you did in your internship.
This probably sounds weird, but I'm fairly certain I've met you before. Mhgs or Smh? Regardless, somewhere in seattle I'd like to protect my anonymity, but put an email address on here if you would like other job app details that might be helpful. Sorry to be vague.
Most applicants have already been sending out letters of interest, and have signed up for job fairs. I think that you are a bit behind. I'd recommend search Cambridge or UNI.
I know of several counseling applicants in your shoes last year, and they found jobs at decent schools. Focus on describing everything you did in your internship.
This probably sounds weird, but I'm fairly certain I've met you before. Mhgs or Smh? Regardless, somewhere in seattle I'd like to protect my anonymity, but put an email address on here if you would like other job app details that might be helpful. Sorry to be vague.
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ccappuccio
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:11 am
I do lack college counseling experience. I have been working with seniors on entrance essays, college search, financial aid, etc. Also, I have been doing curriculum planning and advisory work with freshman and sophomores to prep them for college, and make sure they are taking the right classes to be college bound. I definitely need more experience with this area.
As to where I go I'm pretty flexible. I would love central europe, but I don't know if that is possible.
Also, ISS recruiters have said I should still apply with letters of rec from my current supervisor, program director, and peace corps director, along with current transcripts. Are they to be trusted to have my best interest in mind?
@nikkor: I didn't work at SMH, but I did work with clinicians from SMH. I worked at FSMH. I would love to give you my email address, I just don't know how to without putting it on this chain and that doesn't seem like a good idea. Is there a way to email each other? Are Cambridge and UNI less prestigious than ISS or Search?
As to where I go I'm pretty flexible. I would love central europe, but I don't know if that is possible.
Also, ISS recruiters have said I should still apply with letters of rec from my current supervisor, program director, and peace corps director, along with current transcripts. Are they to be trusted to have my best interest in mind?
@nikkor: I didn't work at SMH, but I did work with clinicians from SMH. I worked at FSMH. I would love to give you my email address, I just don't know how to without putting it on this chain and that doesn't seem like a good idea. Is there a way to email each other? Are Cambridge and UNI less prestigious than ISS or Search?
That's it! I was on M's wrap team with you! We would often meet at the YMCA downtown with Johnny and rachael. Ha, small world!
Generally speaking, Iss is a good organization to go with. However, they're #1 interest seems to be serving schools, not teachers. You can be successful with them. Uni and search seem to accommodate 1st time candidates better through personalized service and by working with a broader range of schools- i.e. Lower quality or less established.
All that said, one strategy might be to visit the iss sf fair in hopes that schools will take a chance on you closer to the end of their recruitment cycle.
Again, the mh piece is nice, but really focus on selling your school counselor specific experience and skills.
Generally speaking, Iss is a good organization to go with. However, they're #1 interest seems to be serving schools, not teachers. You can be successful with them. Uni and search seem to accommodate 1st time candidates better through personalized service and by working with a broader range of schools- i.e. Lower quality or less established.
All that said, one strategy might be to visit the iss sf fair in hopes that schools will take a chance on you closer to the end of their recruitment cycle.
Again, the mh piece is nice, but really focus on selling your school counselor specific experience and skills.
Actual Picture
I dont think your behind because your not a really stellar candidate. No ones going to fall over themselves to sign you before your taken.
Central europe is very unlikely to happen. You should think asia, or the middle east. Again one of the problems is you wont be licensed or complete your degree until June, which is really late. Technically your still an intern.
Yeah you can trust ISS with your letters assuming they are all good letters. Its in their interest for you to get placed, as thats how they get paid. In this case their interests and your interests are the same.
Cambridge "IS" the Search and ISS fairs. Search has there fair in Cambridge MA, and ISS has there in Boston MA (about 3 miles apart). Its one of the three super fairs because the Search fair and the ISS fair run back to back of one another. Literally the recruiters go from one hotel a couple miles to another hotel.
Unless the UNI fair is really close to you (like driving distance) or money is super scarce. There no reason to go to the UNI fair over the Search fair. The Search/ISS fairs are bigger, have more schools, and its the biggest bang for your buck. The UNI fair is the kiddie pool for newbies.
I dont think you realize what a counselor at an International school does. The reality is your not going to do a lot of counseling or therapy. The vast majority of kids are well adjusted or there are cultural issues of face, etc that make therapy unpopular or avoided. Your going to be part of the admin team and that puts you in a leadership position. Your not going to do a lot of testing, and unless your school has special ed (learning resource) there wont really be a lot of that. There arent the behavioral issues that your going to have with at risk populations and schools. Working at an international school, is a lot like working at an affluent prep school.
Central europe is very unlikely to happen. You should think asia, or the middle east. Again one of the problems is you wont be licensed or complete your degree until June, which is really late. Technically your still an intern.
Yeah you can trust ISS with your letters assuming they are all good letters. Its in their interest for you to get placed, as thats how they get paid. In this case their interests and your interests are the same.
Cambridge "IS" the Search and ISS fairs. Search has there fair in Cambridge MA, and ISS has there in Boston MA (about 3 miles apart). Its one of the three super fairs because the Search fair and the ISS fair run back to back of one another. Literally the recruiters go from one hotel a couple miles to another hotel.
Unless the UNI fair is really close to you (like driving distance) or money is super scarce. There no reason to go to the UNI fair over the Search fair. The Search/ISS fairs are bigger, have more schools, and its the biggest bang for your buck. The UNI fair is the kiddie pool for newbies.
I dont think you realize what a counselor at an International school does. The reality is your not going to do a lot of counseling or therapy. The vast majority of kids are well adjusted or there are cultural issues of face, etc that make therapy unpopular or avoided. Your going to be part of the admin team and that puts you in a leadership position. Your not going to do a lot of testing, and unless your school has special ed (learning resource) there wont really be a lot of that. There arent the behavioral issues that your going to have with at risk populations and schools. Working at an international school, is a lot like working at an affluent prep school.
Last edited by PsyGuy on Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think nikko has it right... there will most likely be a job for you. UNI is a good place to start. My advice to you would be to try to get a job where you will be part of an experienced team. You can feel like you have experience but in the international world - you are alone. Often you could be the only counselor in the school (or working with a particular level) and everyone will look to you for an answer. You also need to be able to advocate for yourself and your role as a professional counselor. PD is limited. Another thing - beef up your university counseling experience. That is the way to sell yourself to schools - experience with at-risk kids, mental health is fine, but those students are a small percentage of what you will deal with internationally. Once you get a job visit as many counselors and schools in that division as possible to learn about programming and bring as many resources with you as possible.
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aussiechick
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:37 pm
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ccappuccio
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:11 am
thanks!
@aussiechick: Are you currently working at NIST?
@nikkor: That is so funny? Were you M's MH worker from SMH? Where are you now?
@nikkor: That is so funny? Were you M's MH worker from SMH? Where are you now?
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vettievette
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 am
I, too, come from a similar community program/mental health background with most of my school-related work being thru a non-profit agency linked w/ a school. It sounds like your experience is there, but it's all in how you word it in your resume and interviews for international schools to have a look at you. I had to revise my resume several times to emphasize that I was actually working in a school full-time - despite being employed by a mental health agency. I strayed from using the mental health lingo and it helped big time.
Furthermore, I agree with the others in terms of broadening your scope. Don't discount schools just because of your location. I am currently in my first international gig and couldn't be happier (in a place that most would consider off the beaten path) - great school, great kids, and great admin/staff to work with. My colleagues who have had more international experience agree that this is a good first gig for me.
Furthermore, I agree with the others in terms of broadening your scope. Don't discount schools just because of your location. I am currently in my first international gig and couldn't be happier (in a place that most would consider off the beaten path) - great school, great kids, and great admin/staff to work with. My colleagues who have had more international experience agree that this is a good first gig for me.