Africa with small kids

[snowphantom]

To the OP: Having lived in South Africa with 2 young kids, I would completely recommend it. It really is a hidden gem and our favorite posting so far. Despite what the news might say, living here as an expat is great. It is safe, clean, beautiful, outstanding food/drink, very affordable and tons of family stuff to do. It really is nothing like the rest of Africa. Many of the restaurants have spacious outdoor playgrounds with child-minders. There are lots of preschools around as well. Unlike many other countries in Africa, it is not a hardship post.

Regarding racism, South Africa has come along way in ~20 years. It's not perfect and of course it exists but honestly, it seems much worse in the US.

Edit: Almost forgot, the healthcare is worldclass.

[mamava]

@joe 30

I have no problem hearing negative arguments about countries in Africa--when people have actual experience. When people haven't lived in a country in Africa and then run things down and use gross generalizations, then yes, I DO have a problem. I would never presume to provide information about life in Russia, or the cost of living in Paris, etc., because I haven't experienced them. I would listen to all opinions from people who had, regardless of what they were saying and then make the best decision for my family.

@psyguy

I didn't mean to infer that generators equated with internet...although when we lived there we didn't have a generator (which many teachers did) and those who did, did have internet access.

Influenza is not something that is confined to an African country. Cholera, yes...and other issues. However, the vast majority of those issues comes to people who don't have access to clean food or water, who had poor nutrition, who don't have access to information or health care. Those types of illnesses are not on a typical expat radar. Ebola, obviously, is an extreme situation--we would not consider a job in a country with Ebola history, although the news reported no expat teachers deaths because again, our chances of encountering that would be pretty low, I imagine.

I could argue point by point, but my basic premise remains the same...if you have personal experience--be it positive or negative--share away. If you have opinions without actual experience, consider taking a pass on the post. That's all.

[joe30]

@mamava

You don't get to decide by yourself what is posted in this thread. My opinion on the region is perfectly valid - I'd never live there because I consider it to be a hardship location lacking the basic features for a reasonable quality of life. Clearly I'm not alone in this opinion which is why African schools have trouble recruiting.

[vandsmith]

anyone have any experience living in lagos nigeria - with or without kids? i saw somewhere that their pay/package is really good. what about living there?

[zenteach]

Hello Nutella,

I lived and worked (not teaching at that point) in a stable country in West Africa for 4 years. I have also traveled extensively around the region - Togo, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cote d'Ivoire, Mali, Ghana, Senegal, Nigeria, Niger, Mauritania. There is a very clear distinction between the "expat life" and the "village life." I was in an organization that required us to live in the village. My friends who lived a 20 hour bus ride away in the capital city and led the "expat" life, led a near opposite lifestyle to my "village" lifestyle. However in many ways, we were all subject to the same things when it came to health and safety.

In terms of malaria, it always surprises me how some people (who have never had it) act like it is not that big of a deal. The organization I worked for provided us with a weekly Mefloquine pill. Mefloquine can have intense side effects - bad dreams, anxiety, etc. After about a year of taking Mefloquine I decided to not take any anti-malaria medication because I slept with a mosquito net and wore long sleeves so I was going to be OK, right? Wrong. There were four types of malaria where I lived and when I got malaria, it was absolutely horrible. I will save you from the details but it was so not pretty. I continued to try to go anti-malaria medication free for a few months, but after having malaria episodes about three times I decided to take another anti-malaria medication which had less side effects but that you needed to take daily. A friend ended up with cerebral malaria and needed to be medevaced to his home country because he got quite ill. It is thought that Sickle Cell Anemia actually makes some West Africans less prone to the effects of malaria. I did not have this advantage.

Additionally, even when drinking what you think is "safe" water and eating as clean as possible, you do get stomach bugs and digestive issues. Giardia, though not terrible, not fun at all... when is frothy gross poop with belly aches ever fun? Guinea worm is becoming less common, but is still around parts of Africa. Knowing how worried we get as parents when our kids have high fevers, I just do not want my kids to encounter this type of stuff at such a young age. There is a reason why many locals want sponsorship to live abroad, life is rough in many places.

I did have a few really dangerous things happen to me while with friends (locals) on public transport and with a taxi driver - they all involved guns being pointed at my head and all of my possessions and money being taken from me. Having guns pointed against your head does change you for life, and it is not something I want my children to experience. I never traveled with any extra flashy items and pretty much dressed like the locals.

I loved my time in West Africa so very much, and I made lasting friendships with Africans whom I will know for life. However that is not what I've chosen to discuss because I do want to shed light on the realities of living in many places in Africa. Would I bring my young children to a place where malaria, giardia, Guinea-worm, cholera, etc are a possibility? Absolutely not because I've experienced some of them as an adult, and it was absolutely horrible.

I do think it is up to a family if they'd like to bring their children to this environment, and I would never judge them for this decision as everyone has a different life path. Talk to as many people as you can who have lived in Africa before deciding on a region. I was in one small region on a very vast continent.

[PsyGuy]

@mamava

You arent the gate keeper of whose experiences are worthy of posting.

[nathan61]

One can post opinions, but they are pretty useless. People come on the forum for hard to get information. No sense in posting "I don't like Africa etc etc etc." This is boring. Add some recent details about expat life, specific locations, good schools etc. Generalizing about all of Africa is also juvenile. Gaborone is different than DRC or Morocco.

[PsyGuy]

@nathan61

The vast number of responses are opinion. Traveling to or residing in a location doesnt confer "fact" status, its still just one travelers/expats opinion. I lived in the Congo for 5 years and its perfectly safe, is no more or less an opinion as the traveler who flew through the airport, or visited on holiday and said it was unsafe and horrible.

[chilagringa]

See, zenteach gave an opposing opinion that was actually useful!

Personally, as a current non-breeder I would live in Africa in a heartbeat. But zenteach gave some of the reasons I would be wary about SOME locations (not all, of course, being a continent with many countries) for very small children. Personally, I would probably wait until after 8 or 10 to bring my hypothetical children to most locations. Malaria is a bitch but ESPECIALLY for tiny kids.

In a few locations, especially malaria-free ones, I would probably bring my (hypothetical) kids after, say, 5.

[nathan61]

@chilagringa
Some sleepy places in Africa are ideal for very young children, but not so great for older ones. I lived in a huge house with hardwood floors, lots of French doors opening into a beautiful garden with fruit trees. We had an excellent cook who did all the shopping, two bilingual nannies (one with a college education), stress free positions at a good paying job (couple save about 45k a year). Excellent personal trainer, excellent French teacher who would come to my house. Diplomatic plates, non Malaria zone.
But...outside of outdoor activities, dinner parties etc there was not much going on in terms of culture. These kinds of posts are great for very young children because with little kids you end up at home a lot anyway. There is no time to go to the symphony or catch a movie at the theatre. Play dates in the garden are ideal. But as the kids get older you want to go out and do stuff as a family and many African cities are not pleasant places for a stroll in the park.

My experience is that older children are less safe in a dangerous location because they are out and about in society much more than very young children. The US State Department feels this way as there are posts that only allow children under 5 year old.

Now I live in a first world country and I spend a lot of time shopping, cooking, washing clothes, doing dishes. I have no time for a personal trainer or a French teacher, and I often miss the colonial style life.

[PsyGuy]

My time in Cape Town was different. I lived in a colonial house that had been converted into three residences. My residence was on the backside of the ground floor of the house and shared the entryway with a sort of Zen Garden. You walked into the entrance and were in the Kitchen which was large enough to contain a dining nook. On the other side of the kitchen was a hallway that immediately had a a full bath, though on the small side. The tub was sqaure more like a shower stall with high sides, you could sit in it if you held your knees to your chest. The other room was a large bedroom, the size of a studio apartment. It contained my bed, bureau, a vanity (I used as a desk), and a separate sitting area with a coffee table, and 2 love seat sized sofas, as well as a bookcase that contained the television (though there were only 3 channels). The front of the house was occupied by a family of four that were also educators. You walked into their home and found a small kitchen (small compared to mine as it had no sitting area). Then stairs up led to bathroom (larger than mine as it had a full size tub). There were 3 bedrooms, one of them the master suite contained a half bath. The other 2 bedrooms were guest size, large enough for a twin bed, bed stand and bureau. The last room was a large empty windowed, wood floored room (sort of like a loft). It was however unfurnished, you could not get a sofa up the stairs or much of anything else. They built a picnic table in that room large enough for 12 people. It became the dining room, and work/study room. the third residence was a very small 1 room apartment that had an outside stairs to the entry door. It consisted of one room that had a bed, night stand, and a closet. There was a half bath. No one resided in this little apartment but that it had been occupied before. My neighbor would come over on Sunday afternoons and his children would play (well one would she was 7, the other was 12). The electricity was stable, though the hot water (gas) took ages to get hot enough, you could boil water faster. We had painfully slow internet speeds, that werent suitable for more than browsing the web and email. You couldnt watch video, much less stream anything. You could stream internet radio if no one else was using it. The other problem was that the conversion didnt really take into account the added drain on the electrical system. We often would blow a circuit on nights.
We had no domestic help, at least I didnt, though some ITs did.

Our home was one of several stops the ISs IT bus made 3 time daily. It picked us up and dropped us off at the end of the walkway/alley. My neighbor wanted to get a car but wasnt planning on staying long, so he never did. The metro isnt the best choice in the morning when your pressed for time. Everyone took the IS Bus, you just didnt miss it and if you did you took a car/taxi. In the afternoon the metro/bus was an option if you were staying late or heading somewhere other than home. Though the prevailing rule was if punctuality was important you took a taxi, if you got there when you got there and wanted to be frugal the metro was the more common option. I was never robbed at gunpoint in a vehicle, and no one I knew was either.

Crime wasnt horrible, the most common was pick pockets and scams. Though two ITs were sexually harassed, and one IT was mugged and robbed. The only other issue was a break in, but no one was there at the time. They didnt get much as the only valuables were personal electronics and those werent on site. From the reports the only property taken was a microwave.

I know of no one that got Malaria, or anything else bad while in Capetown, the IS supplied us with chloroquine for Malaria prevention, you stopped off at the infirmary while getting a coffee or tea in the afternoon before you left, as chloroquine can cause nausea, and digestive discomfort. The worst was various digestive and norovirus type of issues. Everyone drank bottled/flask water, but sometimes the ice was contaminated, and sometimes the systems werent cleaned as well as they were supposed to be.

We had a lot more to do Capetown there are plenty of night spots but the big thing was embassy parties, there was a revolving calendar of parties at differing embassies, and our IS was really multinational so there was something going on most weekends on Friday night, and that was the goto weekly social event. You could of course drop a lot of coin going to a number of various evening hot spots (dress to impress), but they werent very exciting, unless your type was suits. They got tiring having to go through the routine to meet the same people. proper pubs were more the go to for ITs. Its not hard to find a decent glass of Guinness and watch some sports. There were available cultural activities as well but unless it was some ITs wife birthday or holiday they didnt get used much.

Shopping was relatively easy, the IS offered a shuttle bus service every weekend, it would follow the traditional route stop off and stop at Food Shop. You didnt need too though, there was a very easily accessible market with staples close to just about everyone. Food Shop is an imports market. Most ITs ate lunch on campus, but you could also put orders in by noon and pick them up at the end of the day as a sort of takeout service. A lot of family ITs took advantage of the convenience. Most of the dishes were one pot types of things like lasagna or stroganoff, and they were all family size. The dining hall also offered snacks during ASP from pizza and chicken tenders to ice cream, they also offered pastries and fruit in the morning. You could (and a number did) eat IS food everyday for all your meals, kind of boring but very convenient.

[chilagringa]

nathan61 wrote:
> @chilagringa

>
> My experience is that older children are less safe in a dangerous location because
> they are out and about in society much more than very young children. The US State
> Department feels this way as there are posts that only allow children under 5 year
> old.
>

Interesting! I didn't really think about that. Maybe 8-13 would be a sweet spot because they are old enough to weather more problems, but not old enough to be out partying.

[PsyGuy]

@chilagringa

More like 8 and under, its not the out partying its just being out. The younger age range is going to spend significantly more time in the home. 8 year olds wont meet up at McDs to study at that young of an age once they hit tweens and teen age they want to be out and about more.

[joe30]

According to Nathan61's logic, no one could express reservations about the merits of going to work in North Korea unless they've actually been there themselves.

Tbh I'd pick North Korea over some African countries too.

[mamava]

joe30 wrote:
> @mamava
>
> You don't get to decide by yourself what is posted in this thread. My
> opinion on the region is perfectly valid - I'd never live there because I
> consider it to be a hardship location lacking the basic features for a
> reasonable quality of life. Clearly I'm not alone in this opinion which is
> why African schools have trouble recruiting.


Not saying that at all. Have you actually lived in a country in Africa? If so, share your opinions. If not, consider taking a pass on this topic.