Contract done. Change schools in same country. Consequences?
-
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 8:51 am
Contract done. Change schools in same country. Consequences?
If I accepted and completed a 2 year contract in Vietnam, Thailand, or Indonesia then tried to move to a different school in the same country would I definitely be considered a local hire at the new school? Would it vary in those countries, that region of the world or the subsequent school that hired me?
Re: Contract done. Change schools in same country. Consequen
It would vary. No real way to predict. Some will try to claim that “good schools” all behave a certain way, and “poor schools” the opposite way, but in my experience, it’s all over the map.
Re: Contract done. Change schools in same country. Consequen
How you apply can sometimes have an impact. Going through Search / ISS as if you are out of the country can help when you're negotiating.
-
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm
Re: Contract done. Change schools in same country. Consequen
You won't know until you try, but I think a lot of schools would try to peg you as a local hire in that situation. It will be up to you how you handle that. You could refuse to sign a local hire contract, and then see if the school will offer you an expat contract. There is no hard and fast rule for this, and if the school really wants you there is nothing to stop them offering you an expat contract.
Response
I concur with @Sid its really all over the map. In very broad generalizations though:
1) Its easy enough to ask about the ISs policy about this at hiring. ISs with a written policy are typically going to follow the policy. In cases where the policy is broad and has a lot of room for discretion, you can just ask, even prior to an interview.
2) The more significant your connection and relationship to the location, the more likely you are to cross the line into being a LH. Marry or be married to a local and your much more likely to be considered a local hire. The shorter your time thats been connected by OSH contracts the more likely your going to continue to be an OSH, or at least the stronger position you have of being considered one. If youve been in country though for 5+ years and did some of that time teaching in ESOL to stay in country the more your going to look like a LH.
3) Leave occasionally. Spend to much consecutive time and it looks like you have no ties outside of the location and you look more like a local. Visit family and friends back home during the summer or just go somewhere outside the country for a month. Putting some distance between you and the region, creates distance between you and the region and allows you to support the position your an expat.
4) Maintain outside country relationships. Transfer coin, maintain your drivers license, vote in elections, make payments on your house or storage facility. Establish a paper trail that your time in your ISs location is transitory.
5) Be mindful and keep your relationship with the national immigration authority outside the realm of being a long term resident. If immigration considers you a long term or permenant resident its not going to be difficult for an IS to adapt the same position, and find that being a resident means youre a LH.
There are a number of understandings that exist in IE, though they are by no means agreements or universal. One is that if your recruited at a IE fair you traveled too youre a OSH hire. The second, is that if your recruited from an agency your residence is for purposes of LH and OSH whatever you list in your application profile.
1) Its easy enough to ask about the ISs policy about this at hiring. ISs with a written policy are typically going to follow the policy. In cases where the policy is broad and has a lot of room for discretion, you can just ask, even prior to an interview.
2) The more significant your connection and relationship to the location, the more likely you are to cross the line into being a LH. Marry or be married to a local and your much more likely to be considered a local hire. The shorter your time thats been connected by OSH contracts the more likely your going to continue to be an OSH, or at least the stronger position you have of being considered one. If youve been in country though for 5+ years and did some of that time teaching in ESOL to stay in country the more your going to look like a LH.
3) Leave occasionally. Spend to much consecutive time and it looks like you have no ties outside of the location and you look more like a local. Visit family and friends back home during the summer or just go somewhere outside the country for a month. Putting some distance between you and the region, creates distance between you and the region and allows you to support the position your an expat.
4) Maintain outside country relationships. Transfer coin, maintain your drivers license, vote in elections, make payments on your house or storage facility. Establish a paper trail that your time in your ISs location is transitory.
5) Be mindful and keep your relationship with the national immigration authority outside the realm of being a long term resident. If immigration considers you a long term or permenant resident its not going to be difficult for an IS to adapt the same position, and find that being a resident means youre a LH.
There are a number of understandings that exist in IE, though they are by no means agreements or universal. One is that if your recruited at a IE fair you traveled too youre a OSH hire. The second, is that if your recruited from an agency your residence is for purposes of LH and OSH whatever you list in your application profile.
Re: Contract done. Change schools in same country. Consequen
We are located in China and just signed a contract with a different school in the same city. They treated us the same as any other hire from overseas. The issue was never even raised.
-
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:53 pm
Re: Contract done. Change schools in same country. Consequen
Above posters are echoing everything I've heard so far. It varies, protect yourself, etc. Any school worth working at knows they're getting a huge benefit if you're already familiar with the country/city (vs. a similar candidate who lacks that experience), and they shouldn't be exploiting that further by trying to screw you.
Something worth underscoring, though: negotiate. If you're in that middle ground because you're already living in-country (or even the same city), I don't see any harm in bringing up your situation (at the appropriate time) as a negotiating point. This could manifest itself in a few ways.
Preemptively, you could raise the question of "flights home" or point out that you "call [Chicago] home but have really enjoyed the time in [Shanghai] so far." This plants early seeds that you're still an OSH (i.e. a LH package isn't appropriate) but that you have advantages (e.g., you're far less of a homesick-runner risk, you'll be less of a handful when it comes to adjusting, you may not need a full relocation budget). Plus it can offset some of their potential concerns about other issues that might make you more expensive (i.e. dependents) if you won't be as expensive to relocate.
On the post-offer side, there's also some opportunity here. Line items like shipping allowance, settling-in allowance, etc., will have far less value for you. It can't hurt to try to leverage that in some way (e.g., "I'd be happy to waive those benefits if we could consider adding X to my professional development budget, as I would really like to pursue Y"). My admin experience doesn't extend to IE, but I'd feel a lot better spending to help a teacher get their master's or IB training than to buy new furniture (especially if they don't need it).
Something worth underscoring, though: negotiate. If you're in that middle ground because you're already living in-country (or even the same city), I don't see any harm in bringing up your situation (at the appropriate time) as a negotiating point. This could manifest itself in a few ways.
Preemptively, you could raise the question of "flights home" or point out that you "call [Chicago] home but have really enjoyed the time in [Shanghai] so far." This plants early seeds that you're still an OSH (i.e. a LH package isn't appropriate) but that you have advantages (e.g., you're far less of a homesick-runner risk, you'll be less of a handful when it comes to adjusting, you may not need a full relocation budget). Plus it can offset some of their potential concerns about other issues that might make you more expensive (i.e. dependents) if you won't be as expensive to relocate.
On the post-offer side, there's also some opportunity here. Line items like shipping allowance, settling-in allowance, etc., will have far less value for you. It can't hurt to try to leverage that in some way (e.g., "I'd be happy to waive those benefits if we could consider adding X to my professional development budget, as I would really like to pursue Y"). My admin experience doesn't extend to IE, but I'd feel a lot better spending to help a teacher get their master's or IB training than to buy new furniture (especially if they don't need it).