I am a single IT with 3 years of international teaching experience in a PYP school as a PE teacher. I will complete a master's degree in July. I have significant experience in coaching several sports. I would like to work in Asia for my next job, but am not limiting myself to just Asia; I would go anywhere for the right school that seems to be a fit for me as well as the right money. I am thinking of attending the Search and/or ISS fairs in Bangkok as it seems those would provide me with the best opportunities.
1. Is it worth my while to go to Bangkok? Do I have the experience/profile to be competitive in these fairs? Would I be better off going to London? (much closer to where I am). Since I'll be travelling far to the region, should I do both Search AND ISS to maximize my trip?
2. What can I expect as far as schools being able to hire me with only 3 years of experience? I was told that for a lot of schools, 5 is the magic number. Will there be a lot of schools there who won't even look at me?
3. Will my soon-to-be-completed masters degree help me in the process?
4. Any advice about getting time off for the Search fair in Bangkok? Because of timing and distance, it would require me to miss almost a week of teaching.
Thank you
Bangkok Questions
Response
First, you dont get to pick your fair, you need to request an invitation to the fair you want and hopefully you get one for that fair. Your not a hugely marketable candidate, many lower tier ISs are happy hiring locals for PHE. The top tier ISs that candidates are after at the BKK fair have a lot more experience than you. Your barely above the 2 year post certification bar to entry into IE, your still an entry class IT.
My instinct suggests your choosing the BKK fair from your comment "I would go anywhere for the right school .... as well as the right money", everyone wants top coin but your resume just isnt there yet. Your subject is PHE, you only have 3 years experience and youve only been in primary level education. If you go to BKK you will likely be frustrated and leave with nothing.
LON is only a marketable option for you at this point because of your PYP experience, and even there your going to find a lot of competition with stronger resumes.
It really isnt worth registering for both ISS and SA, there will be a lot of the same recruiters and ISs at both BKK fairs. ISS doesnt have a LON fair, and your not the type of candidate that ISS would give much attention to. The LON fair is a mega fair because its run back to back with the CIS fair (which is free).
You will likely find the most interest from floater third tier ISs with PYP, maybe 2nd tier in a hardship location. Yes there will be a number of ISs that wont even let you get to the recruiter with your resume. PHE is one of those fields that often goes to an IT couple. There are lots of local PHE ITs/DTs that cost a lot less than an OSH, especially with primary since many Primary HRTs can teach PHE.
Your masters is nice, but you wont have it completed in time to matter much if anything during recruiting. You will get it in time to move up bands on the comp scale. Asking the recruiter if they will adjust your comp when your Masters is awarded will give you some insight to the IS. The bottom tier ISs will either say no the comp is fixed at signing or have some kind rule/policy that establishes a cut off date for comp determination. Decent ISs will move you up whenever and great ISs will even pay you the higher comp retroactively.
Your going to feel really bad missing a week to attend BKK and walking away with nothing. Whats your relationship with your HOS? If you tell them the truth would that be seen as your notice to resign? Would they start looking to replace you, since your looking?
If you need a lie avoid illness, its easier getting a medical excuse, but they will expect you to be home and may check up on you, to find you not there. In addition you will have the exit and entry stamps in your passport which next time the business office asks for or sees, they may notice. Bereavement is a relatively safe option, you can get a template for a death certificate off the internet if you need to, then you just make a photo copy of it so it doesnt look printed. You can then route the travel through BKK. The BKK fair is right around the end of the holiday, you could just use an excuse to delay returning from your holiday (illness, travel delays, family emergency, etc.). You can always cut a page out of your passport if you have to hide the travel (the page got wet and tore out).
My suggestions:
1) Spin your coaching as secondary education. At the smaller ISs the expectation is you will do all grade/K-12/KS programs.
2) Depending where your credentials are from add secondary PE and health credentials.
3) Explore adding ISF coaching certificates for those sports you coach. Football is the most popular, followed by lacrosse for boys and volleyball for girls, with swimming near the end.
4) If you coached before being an IT and you spin your coaching you can extend your experience to more than the three years you have.
5) Find a spouse or significant other that you can market yourselves as a teaching couple. You dont have to love each other, but you probably have a lot of IT/DT friends who could use a boost to your marketability as a couple.
6) If you add the ISF coaching credentials, attend some pro level events as a coach recruiter, you can then spin your resume to include "pro coaching" you just cant disclose the athletes youve worked with due to an NDA. Depending on the IS it will either matter a lot, or wont matter at all.
7) Add a primary HRT qualification, though I doubt you want to be an HRT. Some ISs require (for various reasons or preferences) that all ITs have a generalist primary credential.
My instinct suggests your choosing the BKK fair from your comment "I would go anywhere for the right school .... as well as the right money", everyone wants top coin but your resume just isnt there yet. Your subject is PHE, you only have 3 years experience and youve only been in primary level education. If you go to BKK you will likely be frustrated and leave with nothing.
LON is only a marketable option for you at this point because of your PYP experience, and even there your going to find a lot of competition with stronger resumes.
It really isnt worth registering for both ISS and SA, there will be a lot of the same recruiters and ISs at both BKK fairs. ISS doesnt have a LON fair, and your not the type of candidate that ISS would give much attention to. The LON fair is a mega fair because its run back to back with the CIS fair (which is free).
You will likely find the most interest from floater third tier ISs with PYP, maybe 2nd tier in a hardship location. Yes there will be a number of ISs that wont even let you get to the recruiter with your resume. PHE is one of those fields that often goes to an IT couple. There are lots of local PHE ITs/DTs that cost a lot less than an OSH, especially with primary since many Primary HRTs can teach PHE.
Your masters is nice, but you wont have it completed in time to matter much if anything during recruiting. You will get it in time to move up bands on the comp scale. Asking the recruiter if they will adjust your comp when your Masters is awarded will give you some insight to the IS. The bottom tier ISs will either say no the comp is fixed at signing or have some kind rule/policy that establishes a cut off date for comp determination. Decent ISs will move you up whenever and great ISs will even pay you the higher comp retroactively.
Your going to feel really bad missing a week to attend BKK and walking away with nothing. Whats your relationship with your HOS? If you tell them the truth would that be seen as your notice to resign? Would they start looking to replace you, since your looking?
If you need a lie avoid illness, its easier getting a medical excuse, but they will expect you to be home and may check up on you, to find you not there. In addition you will have the exit and entry stamps in your passport which next time the business office asks for or sees, they may notice. Bereavement is a relatively safe option, you can get a template for a death certificate off the internet if you need to, then you just make a photo copy of it so it doesnt look printed. You can then route the travel through BKK. The BKK fair is right around the end of the holiday, you could just use an excuse to delay returning from your holiday (illness, travel delays, family emergency, etc.). You can always cut a page out of your passport if you have to hide the travel (the page got wet and tore out).
My suggestions:
1) Spin your coaching as secondary education. At the smaller ISs the expectation is you will do all grade/K-12/KS programs.
2) Depending where your credentials are from add secondary PE and health credentials.
3) Explore adding ISF coaching certificates for those sports you coach. Football is the most popular, followed by lacrosse for boys and volleyball for girls, with swimming near the end.
4) If you coached before being an IT and you spin your coaching you can extend your experience to more than the three years you have.
5) Find a spouse or significant other that you can market yourselves as a teaching couple. You dont have to love each other, but you probably have a lot of IT/DT friends who could use a boost to your marketability as a couple.
6) If you add the ISF coaching credentials, attend some pro level events as a coach recruiter, you can then spin your resume to include "pro coaching" you just cant disclose the athletes youve worked with due to an NDA. Depending on the IS it will either matter a lot, or wont matter at all.
7) Add a primary HRT qualification, though I doubt you want to be an HRT. Some ISs require (for various reasons or preferences) that all ITs have a generalist primary credential.
Re: Bangkok Questions
@PsyGuy
Thank you for all the great advice, and I'm going to ask for more if that's ok. My comment about "the money" is based on the fact that I have a couple friends making double what I make with the same amount of experience as me in Asia and other hardship locations. Better money than what I'm making here would certainly turn my head a bit. However, I am definitely looking for a better school; better money would be nice.
To continue the discussion.
1. My relationship with my HOS is great, and we have had candid conversations about my future plans, though I'm not sure how he would feel about me asking for a full week off. However, if I am not a strong candidate for the Bangkok fair, the point is moot; I will ask for an invitation to London and only miss a day of school, if that makes more sense.
2. If I spin my coaching as teaching experience, and enter it into Search as such, wouldn't I potentially putting myself into hot water? Am I not required to have all my teaching experiences confirmed by a confidential reference on Search? Can I put these positions on Search without supplying a reference? Won't recruiters ask to see my references from my teaching positions and then realize that it is, in fact, coaching? I could easily extend my "teaching" experience to 7 years if I include my coaching positions.
3. I am a qualified HRT in both Primary and Intermediate, and I would happily take an HRT position. However, having had only experience as a PSPE specialist, I am operating under the assumption that I would not be marketable as a PYP HRT: am I wrong?
4. In my current position, I am teaching Years 1-5 in PSPE, but I also teach the Intermediate classes (6-8) in PE, though it is not MYP. Does this make a difference?
Thanks
Thank you for all the great advice, and I'm going to ask for more if that's ok. My comment about "the money" is based on the fact that I have a couple friends making double what I make with the same amount of experience as me in Asia and other hardship locations. Better money than what I'm making here would certainly turn my head a bit. However, I am definitely looking for a better school; better money would be nice.
To continue the discussion.
1. My relationship with my HOS is great, and we have had candid conversations about my future plans, though I'm not sure how he would feel about me asking for a full week off. However, if I am not a strong candidate for the Bangkok fair, the point is moot; I will ask for an invitation to London and only miss a day of school, if that makes more sense.
2. If I spin my coaching as teaching experience, and enter it into Search as such, wouldn't I potentially putting myself into hot water? Am I not required to have all my teaching experiences confirmed by a confidential reference on Search? Can I put these positions on Search without supplying a reference? Won't recruiters ask to see my references from my teaching positions and then realize that it is, in fact, coaching? I could easily extend my "teaching" experience to 7 years if I include my coaching positions.
3. I am a qualified HRT in both Primary and Intermediate, and I would happily take an HRT position. However, having had only experience as a PSPE specialist, I am operating under the assumption that I would not be marketable as a PYP HRT: am I wrong?
4. In my current position, I am teaching Years 1-5 in PSPE, but I also teach the Intermediate classes (6-8) in PE, though it is not MYP. Does this make a difference?
Thanks
Reply
@Rudyard
I get it you want the whole cupcake and the Hello Kitty sprinkles.
Its your call, but the BKK fair is two opportunities the primary one of course is show for the cattle call, run the gauntlet and get offers. The secondary is networking, the BKK fair is the single most accessible opportunity to get face time with the top tier HOSs in IE. An offer on the spot may not happen but those recruiters and leadership know people, who know people who ask them if they know someone that you might just be right for if you make a great impression, and those leadership move on, you might not be right for right now, but my crystal ball cant see that far in the future. Steel meet stone is that worth a week off, and the blow back with your current HOS compared to a day local, want more luck take more risks.
Hot water for what? If your coaching your a DT/IT somewhere and your players are students somewhere now move the field from the ISs sports complex to another field, whats the difference? You geo-shifted the venue.
No, your required to have three references, all of them can be from your current IS plus a parent reference or colleague reference.
No, they arent going to ask for references, they will look at whats on SA, and roll with that, youve been at your current IS three years as long as thats top shelf, thats where it will end.
Thats a narrow way of thinking, sure your not a PYP HRT, but you know PYP, you know what it is supposed to look like and how to think PYP, thats a lot more marketable and easier to adjust and train to a classroom environment than taking a DT who has been teaching an NC for a decade, and shifting their paradigm to do a UI while adjusting to an IB IS. A PYP specialist is a faster transition to HRT then going with a cold candidate.
MYP would be ideal, but MYP is one of the last adapted programs an IS invests in, you teach primary and lower secondary thats a shorter extrapolation to upper secondary and all school than just primary. MYP is more prescribed but 50 hours is easy to do in PHE, and in DIP PHE is part of CAS. The difference between primary and secondary is the transition to organized sports, if you can do it at lower secondary you can do it at upper secondary and add the the teen health program.
I get it you want the whole cupcake and the Hello Kitty sprinkles.
Its your call, but the BKK fair is two opportunities the primary one of course is show for the cattle call, run the gauntlet and get offers. The secondary is networking, the BKK fair is the single most accessible opportunity to get face time with the top tier HOSs in IE. An offer on the spot may not happen but those recruiters and leadership know people, who know people who ask them if they know someone that you might just be right for if you make a great impression, and those leadership move on, you might not be right for right now, but my crystal ball cant see that far in the future. Steel meet stone is that worth a week off, and the blow back with your current HOS compared to a day local, want more luck take more risks.
Hot water for what? If your coaching your a DT/IT somewhere and your players are students somewhere now move the field from the ISs sports complex to another field, whats the difference? You geo-shifted the venue.
No, your required to have three references, all of them can be from your current IS plus a parent reference or colleague reference.
No, they arent going to ask for references, they will look at whats on SA, and roll with that, youve been at your current IS three years as long as thats top shelf, thats where it will end.
Thats a narrow way of thinking, sure your not a PYP HRT, but you know PYP, you know what it is supposed to look like and how to think PYP, thats a lot more marketable and easier to adjust and train to a classroom environment than taking a DT who has been teaching an NC for a decade, and shifting their paradigm to do a UI while adjusting to an IB IS. A PYP specialist is a faster transition to HRT then going with a cold candidate.
MYP would be ideal, but MYP is one of the last adapted programs an IS invests in, you teach primary and lower secondary thats a shorter extrapolation to upper secondary and all school than just primary. MYP is more prescribed but 50 hours is easy to do in PHE, and in DIP PHE is part of CAS. The difference between primary and secondary is the transition to organized sports, if you can do it at lower secondary you can do it at upper secondary and add the the teen health program.
Re: Bangkok Questions
Well you've given me a lot to think about.
Let's say that I spin my coaching as teaching experience and I now have 7 years of teaching experience. Will I still likely go to BKK and leave with nothing, or are those years of experience enough of a game-changer to make it potentially worthwhile? My HOS will be, in all likelihood, ok with me going to BKK if I give enough notice. I just don't want to waste my time/money and take that time off of school if I won't be a competitive candidate.
I will plan to investigate HRT positions as well; I did receive feedback last year that "your experience is in PE and we need classroom experience". However, perhaps I got discouraged too quickly, an HRT position would be great as well.
Thanks
Let's say that I spin my coaching as teaching experience and I now have 7 years of teaching experience. Will I still likely go to BKK and leave with nothing, or are those years of experience enough of a game-changer to make it potentially worthwhile? My HOS will be, in all likelihood, ok with me going to BKK if I give enough notice. I just don't want to waste my time/money and take that time off of school if I won't be a competitive candidate.
I will plan to investigate HRT positions as well; I did receive feedback last year that "your experience is in PE and we need classroom experience". However, perhaps I got discouraged too quickly, an HRT position would be great as well.
Thanks
Reply
@Rudyard
With 7 years of experience 3 of it PYP, and additional lower secondary, and the masters your going to fit in with the rest of the candidates that go to BKK. The difference between 3 years and 7 years is 4 years and thats two full points on the PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System, and that moves you up a band.
Does that mean you will get anything, no, you could still leave with nothing, there are ITs with 10+ years who dont get what they want, and leave with nothing. You will however have significantly increased your marketability and competitiveness.
You gave up too easily, not that the feedback you received is wrong but its not reflective of the entirety of IE.
With 7 years of experience 3 of it PYP, and additional lower secondary, and the masters your going to fit in with the rest of the candidates that go to BKK. The difference between 3 years and 7 years is 4 years and thats two full points on the PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System, and that moves you up a band.
Does that mean you will get anything, no, you could still leave with nothing, there are ITs with 10+ years who dont get what they want, and leave with nothing. You will however have significantly increased your marketability and competitiveness.
You gave up too easily, not that the feedback you received is wrong but its not reflective of the entirety of IE.
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twoteachers
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:15 pm
Re: Bangkok Questions
BKK might even be closed at this point. Check before you get your hopes up.
Re: Bangkok Questions
Rudyard,
I would be careful about counting your coaching as teaching experience. If you put down 7 years, then in it comes out in the interview or reference check that the years coaching was not full-time teaching experience, most schools will stop the process because you gave them false or misleading information.
Honestly present yourself. I taught for this many years and coached at a high level in these sports for this many years. Depending upon the sport, this may be very attractive to a school. I once knew a MS PE teacher who got a position with a wife who was not going to teach and two kids in a top tier school because he was an outstanding basketball coach and the admin wanted to win the regional tournament.
I would be careful about counting your coaching as teaching experience. If you put down 7 years, then in it comes out in the interview or reference check that the years coaching was not full-time teaching experience, most schools will stop the process because you gave them false or misleading information.
Honestly present yourself. I taught for this many years and coached at a high level in these sports for this many years. Depending upon the sport, this may be very attractive to a school. I once knew a MS PE teacher who got a position with a wife who was not going to teach and two kids in a top tier school because he was an outstanding basketball coach and the admin wanted to win the regional tournament.
Discussion
I disagree with @Nomad, its all how you spin it. If it wasnt full time then state it was part time if you want. You were a IT/DT, the participants students somewhere, all you did was shift the location of the field. That isnt a misrepresentation or false information. Id make sure your reference (if there is one) and you were on the same page about what to say, but with it being 3 years ago, there isnt any requirement you provide one, and with more recent references completing your profile no one is going to ask.
So much of it is getting past the gate keepers who are looking for X before you even get into the interview.
So much of it is getting past the gate keepers who are looking for X before you even get into the interview.