@fine dude
Again, good parsing of your statement, when you look at IB schools a lot of them (mostly in the US) are regulated DSs or they are non-competitive independent DSs, this is not true in IE and ISs, most ISs offer dual track school leaving pathways one thats a NC diploma, and one thats IB, and the IB track is selective.
No these ISs are not throwing away coin, they are fully admitting these students just not to the IB track. Most parents dont even know what the IB is, and this includes western families and parents.
IB Coordinator support is irrelevant to students that are not int he IB, you have to be in before someone can care.
Apparently you dont know it, its not just a minority like 48% is a minority to 52%, its a trivial minority that doesnt have enough significance to even be rounded up within the IE community.
The vast majority of those studnts that graduate from an IS are not going to study locally they will return to the Uni system in their home region, or one in their language. They arent going to stay and study in China where they attended their IS they are going to go back to the US or the UK, etc..
Yes I have taught DIP 1 and 2, both SL and HL, and am also an examiner.
@Thames Pirate
Uhmm, YES, in IE students in the DIP are pursuing the diploma, the other categories are rare exceptions, and not the rule. YES, its a gifted program in so much as ISs and IEs have gifted programs. You cant really have a G&T program in an IS, every parent would demand their child be admitted to that program, to the point that no one would be in the general education program.
Public/regulated DSs are not ISs nor is it IE, I can not reconcile your experience with mine.
Admission to the IS and admission to the IB program are not the same. There are parents that make enrollment contingent on being admitted to the IB program, but in general they are separate processes. These systems have a certain degree of range restriction, they generally dont admit students who arent capable of grade level study to begin with.
IB certificates is a distinct minority, its usually a student that for whatever reason did not have enough points for the Diploma, its not something pursued independently. It is far easier to serve those interests by restricting admission and participation into the IB program, which they do.
The vast majority of IB work is coursework. I gave quizzes every week which are assessments and they are not externally moderated, and the vast majority of work is coursework. The submission of a couple well polished assessments is not the bulk of students coursework. Those ITs can give out 6s and 7s like candy if they want, and there is nothing regarding moderation that can say otherwise.
Grade inflation is one of the higher priority issues in IE.
That isnt how averages work, you can have a mean of 35 and have a very high standard deviation or a very low standard deviation.
I have this position because its true, IB admissions are predominately selective in IE.
May 2016 IB results
Re: May 2016 IB results
@PsyGuy
You are an embodiment of misconceptions and you prove that you never taught the DP, let alone being an examiner.
"The vast majority of IB work is coursework. I gave quizzes every week which are assessments and they are not externally moderated, and the vast majority of work is coursework. The submission of a couple well polished assessments is not the bulk of students coursework. Those ITs can give out 6s and 7s like candy if they want, and there is nothing regarding moderation that can say otherwise. Grade inflation is one of the higher priority issues in IE."
Coursework in IB parlance refers to oral presentations, explorations/practical work. Also, known as the internal assessment. It was never more than 25%. So, as you mentioned, the vast majority of IB work ISN'T coursework. The external exams account for nearly 80% of the grade. You can't just invent new vocabulary to justify your claims.
You are an embodiment of misconceptions and you prove that you never taught the DP, let alone being an examiner.
"The vast majority of IB work is coursework. I gave quizzes every week which are assessments and they are not externally moderated, and the vast majority of work is coursework. The submission of a couple well polished assessments is not the bulk of students coursework. Those ITs can give out 6s and 7s like candy if they want, and there is nothing regarding moderation that can say otherwise. Grade inflation is one of the higher priority issues in IE."
Coursework in IB parlance refers to oral presentations, explorations/practical work. Also, known as the internal assessment. It was never more than 25%. So, as you mentioned, the vast majority of IB work ISN'T coursework. The external exams account for nearly 80% of the grade. You can't just invent new vocabulary to justify your claims.
Reply
@fine dude
This is not an IB forum it is an IE forum, and coursework is a general term that ITs both in and out of the IB can relate to and understand.
25% is the difference between top marks and average marks, and while its value is less in the marking scheme it is what the bulk of tasking students complete over the course of their studies.
This is not an IB forum it is an IE forum, and coursework is a general term that ITs both in and out of the IB can relate to and understand.
25% is the difference between top marks and average marks, and while its value is less in the marking scheme it is what the bulk of tasking students complete over the course of their studies.
Re: May 2016 IB results
@fine dude says:
"@PsyGuy
You are an embodiment of misconceptions and you prove that you never taught the DP, let alone being an examiner."
And I can confirm that!
"@PsyGuy
You are an embodiment of misconceptions and you prove that you never taught the DP, let alone being an examiner."
And I can confirm that!
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: May 2016 IB results
Again, wrong. It really depends somewhat on the student body. Most European universities do require the full diploma or, if not the diploma, an attempt at the full diploma, so the percentages of those doing the full DP are higher when the student population is targeting those. It is lower when targeting American universities, where the individual certificates are viewed as similar to AP credit. Additionally, while a few schools offer a true dual track (often more concurrent with local requirements or else A levels or AP), the non-IB track most often means students are enrolled and taking the SL IB courses but not testing or submitting work--they don't staff a separate class. Therefore the whole program is an IB program, and the coordinator works with all of these students to determine what options are best for them. The IB is not a gifted program and is accessible to all students.
IB certificates is NOT a distinct minority. It is a HUGE percentage globally, and it is still a significant percentage in IS. It is perhaps a smaller percentage at elite and tier 1 schools, but not all ISs are elite or tier 1, are they? And I don't know what your experience is (though the things you say make me wonder if you have taught IB), but we have taught IB both in a domestic public school (it was a non-selective opt-in program) and internationally (at a truly international school). So we DO have a basis for comparison, even if you don't.
Sorry, but an individual teacher cannot inflate an IB score. Anyone who says they can is lying or does not understand IB (another reason I suspect you have not taught IB). ALL WORK that counts towards a student's IB score is moderated or externally scored. ALL of it. Yes, I give marks in my class independent of the IB score, and I can inflate that all I want (but schools don't publish those marks, so what is the point?). Those quizzes you gave had no bearing on any IB scores, and if you actually taught IB, you would know that. Furthermore, there are strict regulations regarding the submission of those "well-polished assessments" including how much feedback and polish a teacher is allowed to give. If you had actually taught IB, you would know that, too.
Incidentally, it IS how averages work in IB since the rubrics are designed to push students toward the four! You cannot get the full diploma if you score a 1 or if you get too many 2s (or even 3s in your HL work) or if your total is below 24. So those schools are typically reporting a mean of 35 with scores ranging from 24-45. So either most students are close to that mean (so 5s and a few 6s) or they are on the two extremes--and a score of 24 means straight fours or even a three plus one bonus point. Either way the school cannot claim that its students get mostly 7s and a 6 is just a lackluster score if they are reporting a mean of 35, sorry. But again you would know that if you taught IB.
Incidentally, pretty much anybody (doesn't have to even be a teacher or school employee) can be an IB invigilator (that is what we call the proctors), and all IB teachers are examiners in that they score IAs. But you would know that if you taught IB.
By the way, in IB we call it the DP, not the DIP.
IB certificates is NOT a distinct minority. It is a HUGE percentage globally, and it is still a significant percentage in IS. It is perhaps a smaller percentage at elite and tier 1 schools, but not all ISs are elite or tier 1, are they? And I don't know what your experience is (though the things you say make me wonder if you have taught IB), but we have taught IB both in a domestic public school (it was a non-selective opt-in program) and internationally (at a truly international school). So we DO have a basis for comparison, even if you don't.
Sorry, but an individual teacher cannot inflate an IB score. Anyone who says they can is lying or does not understand IB (another reason I suspect you have not taught IB). ALL WORK that counts towards a student's IB score is moderated or externally scored. ALL of it. Yes, I give marks in my class independent of the IB score, and I can inflate that all I want (but schools don't publish those marks, so what is the point?). Those quizzes you gave had no bearing on any IB scores, and if you actually taught IB, you would know that. Furthermore, there are strict regulations regarding the submission of those "well-polished assessments" including how much feedback and polish a teacher is allowed to give. If you had actually taught IB, you would know that, too.
Incidentally, it IS how averages work in IB since the rubrics are designed to push students toward the four! You cannot get the full diploma if you score a 1 or if you get too many 2s (or even 3s in your HL work) or if your total is below 24. So those schools are typically reporting a mean of 35 with scores ranging from 24-45. So either most students are close to that mean (so 5s and a few 6s) or they are on the two extremes--and a score of 24 means straight fours or even a three plus one bonus point. Either way the school cannot claim that its students get mostly 7s and a 6 is just a lackluster score if they are reporting a mean of 35, sorry. But again you would know that if you taught IB.
Incidentally, pretty much anybody (doesn't have to even be a teacher or school employee) can be an IB invigilator (that is what we call the proctors), and all IB teachers are examiners in that they score IAs. But you would know that if you taught IB.
By the way, in IB we call it the DP, not the DIP.
Re: May 2016 IB results
Hey,
So in answer to the OP's question... My SLs I was happy with, their IAs were only knocked down 1 point. My HLs I was somewhat disappointed with, mainly because of the IA moderation. We've requested a Cat. 3 re-mark for these. I wonder if this is just the nature of the beast when it comes to IA moderation?
My job certainly is not under threat because of this, but when I get back we will inevitably have the same conversation: 'How can we improve students' grades?'. This will be met with the usual reply: 'Get students to work harder and choose more appropriate subject choices'.
This was my first year as an IB Examiner and I found the process really quite difficult and very time-consuming. Financially, it doesn't really some worthwhile. I have not sat down to work out my pay per hour, but I guess it is considerably less than the IELTS examiners over here in China earn for private tutorials (often in excess of $50 per hour). Actually, I found iT stressful and seeing as my internet connection isn't the best, there were days where I just couldn't do it.
So in answer to the OP's question... My SLs I was happy with, their IAs were only knocked down 1 point. My HLs I was somewhat disappointed with, mainly because of the IA moderation. We've requested a Cat. 3 re-mark for these. I wonder if this is just the nature of the beast when it comes to IA moderation?
My job certainly is not under threat because of this, but when I get back we will inevitably have the same conversation: 'How can we improve students' grades?'. This will be met with the usual reply: 'Get students to work harder and choose more appropriate subject choices'.
This was my first year as an IB Examiner and I found the process really quite difficult and very time-consuming. Financially, it doesn't really some worthwhile. I have not sat down to work out my pay per hour, but I guess it is considerably less than the IELTS examiners over here in China earn for private tutorials (often in excess of $50 per hour). Actually, I found iT stressful and seeing as my internet connection isn't the best, there were days where I just couldn't do it.
Reply
@Owl@Dusk
How much were your HLs off by? Inter-Rater reliability is usually pretty high, there are some outliers, and you could be one of them, but its not typical.
Many examiners share similar feelings regarding the time commitment and compensation, it does move faster after you have done it for a few years, but unless you subcontract out the work to India the financial benefits arent really worth the time. Many examiners do it for the resume line, and the marketability it adds.
How much were your HLs off by? Inter-Rater reliability is usually pretty high, there are some outliers, and you could be one of them, but its not typical.
Many examiners share similar feelings regarding the time commitment and compensation, it does move faster after you have done it for a few years, but unless you subcontract out the work to India the financial benefits arent really worth the time. Many examiners do it for the resume line, and the marketability it adds.