Brexit Implications on EU

[sdakota]

Hello, friends.

As you all may be aware by now, the United Kingdom has voted to exit the EU. While the UK wasn't part of the schengen agreement, the successful exiting of the EU will most certainly have a ripple effect for other EU countries who might not be so keen to stay. What effects, if any, do you think this will have on international education? I'm assuming things will stay the same for EU citizens, but it might be even harder for non EU teachers to work in EU countries?

I've attached some opinion polling about the countries that might be looking at the UK situation very carefully, in hopes of passing their own referendums.

[sitka]

It will make it easier for American, Canadian, NZ, and Australian teachers to work in Tier 2 schools in Europe because they won't have to compete with no-visa UK citizens anymore.

[sdakota]

I've been digging a little deeper on this. The implications might be greater than I first thought. Political scientist Ian Bremmer, whose opinion I respect says that Brexit is the most significant political risk the world has experienced since the Cuban Missile Crisis because it is likely not to be an isolated hick-up but the start of a complete rearrangement of world order.

We'll see. I think I'll stay in Asia for a while to see how this all shakes out.

[PsyGuy]

I dont see the ripple effect as meaning anything, based on your poling data none of the regions have the 50% or more vote to exit even if they did get a referendum. Britain was never really all in the EU pool, they had their feet in the water but they maintained a lot of autonomy, mainly they kept their own currency. The Brexit may easily mean that Scotland replaces Britain in the EU.

As for IE there are going to be two immediate benefits, first I agree with @sitka, in the realm of native English speaking westerners which lower and middle tier ISs need to employ it will remove the Britain advantage and place AUS/CAN/US on equal logistics in recruitment. Brits wont be the "go to" source and preference for late season WE and EU recruiting.
Second, it will ease recruiting within Britain and the UK when recruiting foreigners.

[higgsboson]

From what I'm seeing on CNN and MSNBC, they is an urge to punish the UK so maybe American teachers will now have an actual advantage over UK teachers - good news for everyone IMHO, especially for the students.

[fine dude]

I'd hire a N.American or an Aussie teacher on any given day. They are more student-centered, pro-ed. tech, and less cynical when it comes to matters of learning.

[SonnyCrockett]

Little or no effect whatsoever. It will take years to implement Brexit and when they do they'll probably keep a great deal of the free movement rules, but with the condition that you must have a job to go to and you won't be able to claim welfare benefits. From a political scientist and former politician.

Rule Britannia!

[fine dude]

It doesn't matter what the politicians think. A majority of school heads in Europe are from N.America and it's their mindset that matters at the end of the day. When these guys go recruiting, they would be naturally inclined to hire non-Brits, especially when there is lack of clarity and uncertainty regarding paperwork for Brits. You don't want your prospective British teachers to sue you when they can't claim their pensions or benefits under the changed rules in a pro-employee European labor market. N. American teachers are more progressive and easy to deal with than their British counterparts.

[Walter]

@fine dude... N. American teachers are more progressive and easy to deal with than their British counterparts.

"All generalizations are dangerous - even this one." Alexandre Dumas

[mathphyschap]

I'm not so sure N American teachers are 'generally' easier to deal with.

(1) British teachers (reluctantly) accept teaching load in terms of teaching hours. A teaching load of 24 teaching hours with 20-24 unique lessons might cause raised eyebrows and muttering in Brits but in my experience colleagues from N. America will be straight over to the senior management team arguing about the number of 'preps'.

(2) Where things don't work as they should. For example a dispute with a landlord where school admin staff are involved or even an argument with a local taxi driver outside the school gates. N American colleagues can more quickly take a confrontational approach 'This is not acceptable / You cannot be serious'

That aside I think some sort of EU-lite deal should emerge between the UK and Europe, there are already a lot of Europeans working in London and the rest of the UK and millions of Brits based in Europe who will need accommodating. Time will tell.

[MartElla]

I find Higgs Boson and Fine Dude's nationalistic generalization of British teachers to be offensive. No doubt they'll come out with some claptrap about it being based on their own experiences, but based on my experiences what they are saying amounts to lies. I've worked with N. Americans who were terrible teachers, and others that were simply not very nice people. However, I'd not equate that all teachers from N. America, as that's stereotyping and generalization. I've also worked with other N. Americans who were wonderful people, educators and friends. Likewise, most British teachers I have encountered have been wonderful as well. There are always some bad apples, but to make such sweeping statements as above about whole nationalities is just, well, nasty. I'd be concerned at having such prejudiced individuals as those two above named being allowed to influence children in a classroom setting. They are obviously not open-minded but instead prone to prejudice and stereotypes. Judge the person, not the country on their passport.

This board obviously has been pro-US and anti-UK for a while now, and is happy going down that divisive route. Good luck to them, but why not be honest and change the title of the website to prejudicednorthamericanantibritishteachersschoolreview.com?

[higgsboson]

@Martella - I actually meant opening the mainland European market to a larger and more diverse pool of teachers than just teachers from the UK would be better for students. However, I do agree with finedude that American teachers are preferred over British teachers. Brits are just too high strung and suffer from what can only be described as a stick up the wazoo. American teachers are more laid back and easier to relate to. Students just prefer American teachers over British teachers, at least in my experience. I'm not saying Brits aren't effective and hard-working; American teachers are just more effective because they develop better relationships with teachers.

[PsyGuy]

I disagree with the claim that UK ITs are more student centered, pro-education, technology proficient, etc.."

Much of the appearance has to do with the differences of how education is delivered, and there are a number of previous observations I agree with (US ITs are far more likely to complain to leadership when they dont get their way).

1) The UK has a national unified curriculum and very clear and fixed objectives and expectations of what exam boards want and how 'success' is defined. This doesnt exist in the US and to a lessor degree in CAN and AUS. UK ITs and DTs have delivered their programs a certain defined way for much longer than they would be able to in the US. This isnt a lack of flexibility but highly refined organization that has been demonstrated to work and why fix something that isnt broken. Its not that students and parents in the UK are petitioning for change, their students want the best marks in their course as possible and experimenting with that process is only likely to cause hardship for students as unknowns are introduced into that system.

2) US ITs may be more approachable than UK ITs but that isnt necessarily a positive. In earlier grades/years you find just as many friendly ITs from both the US and UK. As you reach upper secondary I find little difference in the personality between ITs teaching A levels, HL DIP, or AP. Its a checklist with a lot of goals that have to be met, there isnt a lot of time or room for niceties. The difference is most observable in lower secondary where the USNC doesnt have an exit level program and the UKNC (IGCSE) does, those UK ITs need to start preparing students for exams earlier. Evan primary has SATS that there isnt a correlational experience in the USNC. Its a lot easier to be personable, and laid back with students when you dont have those pressures and stresses. You can be "nice" when you dont have to be in the position of explaining why a students exam scores are only average or below average.

3) There is a significant number (a lot) of BSs that provide the type of UKNC program that parents and students want exactly the kind of UKNC experience that they are used too. These are students that are abroad for a number of years and will return to the UK and will need to integrate back into the UK education system. In BSs you will find it easier recruiting with actual UK or BS experience than you will as a US IT who isnt very interested in adopting to the UKNC program and ethos. If you think your going to be all warm and fuzzy during A level studies with an organic student centered learning approach, you will find yourself very quickly facing significant conflict.

4) I find poor ITs and massive egos on both sides of the pond. This is going to be perceived as sexist, but my experience has been that when it comes to older more mature male ITs regardless of US or UK the tendency is to raise an eyebrow ask "you want me to do X with Y", and then nod and move on. The male UK IT will use a lot more profanity in the local watering hole later and the male US IT will talk about it more.
Female ITs from the US will go on the aggressive war path to leadership and parents. Female ITs from the UK will take the passive aggressive path. Its the female US ITs that talk about issues in the IT dining room and the IT break room. The female UK ITs do their complaining off the IS grounds and after hours.
US trailing spouses tend to vent their frustrations on their teaching spouse to have leadership fix various wrongs, and UK spouses complain less, but just expect the problems to be corrected, and dont care much who does the fixing. Neither one is better, only different.

[fine dude]

@PsyGuy
There is no such thing as US National Curriculum (USNC??). That's a misconception. You can't equate national standards to national curriculum as the former don't prepare students for an external exam like the GCSEs.

[higgsboson]

@psyguy I agree with your final point 4 entirely. I've seen that play out time and again: every female Brit I've ever worked with has been passive aggressive, which makes things hard when they are in a position of responsibility like HOD. As far as why British teachers are so much less cool than American teachers, I think that's more about national character than national curriculum. I remember my very first gig in Thailand as an ESL teacher over 30 years ago. It was me - American, an Aussie and a Brit. The British guy was hard working and knew what he was doing and credentialed but with such a high brow attitude he just seemed to drive students away. He always carried an umbrella and wore a tie and even had a little inbox/outbox on his desk. He lasted about a month before he was asked to leave because the students thought he was boring. The Aussie and I both wound up in Thailand on a lark, went to work in sandals and mostly just chatted with the kids. Neither one of us had a TEFL certificate or experience but the kids loved us - we were laid back and cool, just not something in the British nature I guess.

But you are right - the Brit was a totally different guy on Soi Cowboy and he could drink!