@MedellinHel
Your comments/qualifying statements/explanations to yourself are just your way of trying to convince yourself that you are making a choice to work overseas when the truth is, whether you have the courage to admit it or not, you don't have what it takes to work in a public school. WE TEACH EVERYONE, not just kids who have parents rich enough to pay for private school.
And I meant that you should be thankful for being able to teach cream puff students. Because these are obviously your speed.
And because you have not fought the good fight, you have no right to comment on what any public school teacher does.
Don't judge until you've walked in another's moccasins. I've worked a lot on both sides, IE and public schools, and I , not you, know the score.
So, once again, stay in Korea and pretend that you are a real, live teacher, Pinocchio, and worry about kids not doing their homework. Leave the real work to the real teachers.
Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
@Senator
What ever makes you sleep better at night.
I will comment on anything my heart desires, but thanks for your advice.
Real teachers or do you mean zoo keepers?
;)
What ever makes you sleep better at night.
I will comment on anything my heart desires, but thanks for your advice.
Real teachers or do you mean zoo keepers?
;)
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
God, I love my job as an imaginary teacher!
Reply
@MedellinHeel
Thats my issue with ISS, its just a holding den, you havent addressed the behavior issues youve just temporarily isolated them. The students behavior was intolerable going in, and its highly unlikely to change when they come out and back into your classroom.
I may be giving parents too much credit, I havent been inside an at risk classroom/DS in over a decade, my experience from that point was that parents wanted to do right by their childrens education, but "mom" didnt want to have the child home with them all day. I suppose in a two income home the suspended student may very well just watch TV and play video games with no one to supervise them. When I taught in the states in an affluent district, suspension meant that mom was going to not have her quite time, shopping and lunch with her mom friends and book/cafe coffee club. Do that for 10 days and thats one very upset mom.
In the states it was right around the turning of the millennium, with NCLB (2002) which defined aspects of a Free and Appropriate Education, essentially accountability meant a DS or district could not wash their hands of a student they had taken money to serve. You could expel them, but if you took money (typically the student was in attendance at a DS in your district jurisdiction on the states "attendance day" or they were registered within your district) then their performance/attendance assessment was going to be part of your DSs/District AYP appraisal/rating/ranking. Expel them, and they dont take the test, meaning your DS/District gets a zero for that student factored into their AYP appraisal, zeros are really difficult to fix, 1 or 2 expelled students in even a large classroom can easily make the difference between successful and unsuccessful if you already have marginally performing students. So DSs and districts (in addition with compliance of still providing some form of education, which typically meant a tutor or visiting home teacher for a few hours a week) as well as the political and legal costs in resources. it was just the tipping point that it became more cost effective and beneficial to "house" those students in various programs, such that whatever performance they did on the state appraisal was better than zero, and cheaper than not just getting them out of the DS but keeping them out.
Thats my issue with ISS, its just a holding den, you havent addressed the behavior issues youve just temporarily isolated them. The students behavior was intolerable going in, and its highly unlikely to change when they come out and back into your classroom.
I may be giving parents too much credit, I havent been inside an at risk classroom/DS in over a decade, my experience from that point was that parents wanted to do right by their childrens education, but "mom" didnt want to have the child home with them all day. I suppose in a two income home the suspended student may very well just watch TV and play video games with no one to supervise them. When I taught in the states in an affluent district, suspension meant that mom was going to not have her quite time, shopping and lunch with her mom friends and book/cafe coffee club. Do that for 10 days and thats one very upset mom.
In the states it was right around the turning of the millennium, with NCLB (2002) which defined aspects of a Free and Appropriate Education, essentially accountability meant a DS or district could not wash their hands of a student they had taken money to serve. You could expel them, but if you took money (typically the student was in attendance at a DS in your district jurisdiction on the states "attendance day" or they were registered within your district) then their performance/attendance assessment was going to be part of your DSs/District AYP appraisal/rating/ranking. Expel them, and they dont take the test, meaning your DS/District gets a zero for that student factored into their AYP appraisal, zeros are really difficult to fix, 1 or 2 expelled students in even a large classroom can easily make the difference between successful and unsuccessful if you already have marginally performing students. So DSs and districts (in addition with compliance of still providing some form of education, which typically meant a tutor or visiting home teacher for a few hours a week) as well as the political and legal costs in resources. it was just the tipping point that it became more cost effective and beneficial to "house" those students in various programs, such that whatever performance they did on the state appraisal was better than zero, and cheaper than not just getting them out of the DS but keeping them out.
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
@Psy
Regarding ISS, I agree, but the thing is schools do not want to expel or suspend students because it looks very bad on review. The district wants the kids in school with a chance to learn than at home doing nothing or getting into trouble. In which case ISS serves an important compromise. You can get those kids out of the main classroom, while also keeping them in school.
Yea, you are looking at the parents from a wrong angle with regards to the US. Most these kids come from broken single mother homes. Very little parental guidance or supervision.
Regarding ISS, I agree, but the thing is schools do not want to expel or suspend students because it looks very bad on review. The district wants the kids in school with a chance to learn than at home doing nothing or getting into trouble. In which case ISS serves an important compromise. You can get those kids out of the main classroom, while also keeping them in school.
Yea, you are looking at the parents from a wrong angle with regards to the US. Most these kids come from broken single mother homes. Very little parental guidance or supervision.
Reply
@MedellinHeel
Disagree, expelling students doesnt look bad to a DS, having your hands tied and having a DMZ because you cant purge students that looks bad. Students dont learn in ISS anymore then they will in the general ed classroom, or even at home. Students are either motivated to learn and do the work or they arent. Id rather a student at home watch an hour of the history channel, some BBC and some Myth Busters then attention getting behavior in ISS.
ISS isnt a compromise its a strategy thats essentially babysitting. It preserves legal and administrative resources that would otherwise be a cost for the DS and the local authority. Babysitting is cheaper and easier, it is not an educational compromise.
Disagree, expelling students doesnt look bad to a DS, having your hands tied and having a DMZ because you cant purge students that looks bad. Students dont learn in ISS anymore then they will in the general ed classroom, or even at home. Students are either motivated to learn and do the work or they arent. Id rather a student at home watch an hour of the history channel, some BBC and some Myth Busters then attention getting behavior in ISS.
ISS isnt a compromise its a strategy thats essentially babysitting. It preserves legal and administrative resources that would otherwise be a cost for the DS and the local authority. Babysitting is cheaper and easier, it is not an educational compromise.
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
Psy,
You are looking at it through a teachers or parents point of view. Which is the correct view btw. Much better to not waste resources on idiotic kids. However, the school board wants a fairy tale utopia ie solve your discipline problems (get better classroom management) and improve your test scores every year.
You are looking at it through a teachers or parents point of view. Which is the correct view btw. Much better to not waste resources on idiotic kids. However, the school board wants a fairy tale utopia ie solve your discipline problems (get better classroom management) and improve your test scores every year.
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @MedellinHeel
>
> Its not the district its the politicians.
Well, to me they are almost one in the same. Or at least go hand in hand lol. ie The district is influenced by the politicians, the principals are influenced by the district, and the teachers are influenced by the principals. etc
One big cluster f*ck of worrying about PC, appearance, and feelings when they all should be worried about the classroom and actual students that want to learn.
> @MedellinHeel
>
> Its not the district its the politicians.
Well, to me they are almost one in the same. Or at least go hand in hand lol. ie The district is influenced by the politicians, the principals are influenced by the district, and the teachers are influenced by the principals. etc
One big cluster f*ck of worrying about PC, appearance, and feelings when they all should be worried about the classroom and actual students that want to learn.