I recently returned to the US to finish up my alternative certification program. I was placed in a low income mostly minority school to do my student teaching. It is a bloody circus in my mentor teacher's class. She is constantly having to tell students to stop talking, stay in their seat, etc. They don't listen to her and laugh when you try to discipline them. If a kid gets crazy crazy bad I have seen her send them to the administration. But for the most part she is content with just repeating herself a thousand times during class I presume. For reference, my only experience has been mostly ESL work and some student teaching in Korea. The kids at the IS's were behaved. As for the kids at the language academies, they can be unruly if you let them, but usually if you are stern, consistent, and discipline them they will shape up.
Thank God I only have to teach this teacher's class for a week. I have no clue how people can work at schools like this.
I think the main problem with education is schools are not committed to having controlled, engaged, high learning classrooms. It is frowned upon to send kids to admin, iss, after school detention, and suspension. If a kid is incapable of not disrupting the class, they should be removed from the classroom and school. The hell with hurt feelings and any other bs reasons to try and accommodate these types of students.
I do not imagine this is as big of an issue in the IS scene as that is a different type of demographic. But I am sure there are some outliers.
What has been your experience and opinion with this?
Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
I agree with you. From what my mother said, the biggest problem teachers face (in the USA) is discipline problems. My experience in China and Korea is the biggest problem comes from students using cell phones in class.
BTW, are you doing your cert. through Teacher Ready?
BTW, are you doing your cert. through Teacher Ready?
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
Seems to me cell phones shouldnt be a problem. If a teacher sees it in class give a warning to the class. Next one you see take it and give it back after class.
Yea, I am doing TeacherReady.
Yea, I am doing TeacherReady.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
Taking a cell phone can be problematic, MedellinHeel. However, any teacher worth their salt at ANY school, when they run into discipline problems on a larger scale, learns the discipline procedure and works it to the max. It is a lot of work at the start, but once done, students generally conform much quicker.
Glad to hear you are finishing up and making your move out in the world!
Shad
Glad to hear you are finishing up and making your move out in the world!
Shad
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
Interesting. I have taught in a couple of ISs (one tier 3, one tier 1) and have been in a TON of domestic schools subbing, as well as being a classroom teacher.
From my experience, it has less to do with demographics (although they definitely do count!) than the administration being willing to back teachers up, and having discipline policies in place that are actually enforced.
I subbed at a couple of inner-city public schools were I could not believe how well the kids were behaved. I have also subbed at a few inner city schools that were absolute chaos. I could say the same thing for schools with richer demographics, including the ISs I have worked at. It all depends on the admin, policies, and enforcement.
Right now I work at an IS in a region that tends to have somewhat bratty kids at ISs (I know - I've taught at another!) At my current school the kids have the potential to be entitled brats, but the admin backs us up. I had to send a kid my first week to the admin, and unlike my last school, they backed me up 100%, gave the kid a consequence (detention), and he's been a lot better since. Overall, I can concentrate on TEACHING. I do think I have excellent classroom management skills, though, so that helps... but the classroom management stuff I do actually works here because the kids know that they are accountable.
From my experience, it has less to do with demographics (although they definitely do count!) than the administration being willing to back teachers up, and having discipline policies in place that are actually enforced.
I subbed at a couple of inner-city public schools were I could not believe how well the kids were behaved. I have also subbed at a few inner city schools that were absolute chaos. I could say the same thing for schools with richer demographics, including the ISs I have worked at. It all depends on the admin, policies, and enforcement.
Right now I work at an IS in a region that tends to have somewhat bratty kids at ISs (I know - I've taught at another!) At my current school the kids have the potential to be entitled brats, but the admin backs us up. I had to send a kid my first week to the admin, and unlike my last school, they backed me up 100%, gave the kid a consequence (detention), and he's been a lot better since. Overall, I can concentrate on TEACHING. I do think I have excellent classroom management skills, though, so that helps... but the classroom management stuff I do actually works here because the kids know that they are accountable.
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
Teaching in American public schools is not for everyone. Unlike in international schools, a public school teacher must not only have solid knowledge of subject matter but must also be able to control a classroom.
One of the things I disliked the most about teaching in international schools was having to deal with the arrogance and grand egos of teachers who NEVER had to teach under challenging conditions - like those in public schools - yet walked around as if they were God's gift to the education field.
The truth is that the first few weeks are sometimes a grind. I have to be focused and tough yet flexible enough to bend a class to my way of doing things. Once that is done, we all settle in and learn from each other. You can't slack off and must stay on top of the students at all times. You can't think that you can assign work or an assessment then go work on your computer. You have to be constantly on your feet cajoling, encouraging, getting people back on task. NO LET UP.I use humor and discipline. Most of the IE's I've worked with just didn't have those abilities - but thought they did.
If handling an unruly classroom is beyond your abilities, then go international. But for God's sake, please don't think that - just because you are an expat living the "glamorous expat life, you are any better than the foot soldiers who grind it out day after day in public schools, winning the small every day battles that all real teachers face. Because you simply are not.
One of the things I disliked the most about teaching in international schools was having to deal with the arrogance and grand egos of teachers who NEVER had to teach under challenging conditions - like those in public schools - yet walked around as if they were God's gift to the education field.
The truth is that the first few weeks are sometimes a grind. I have to be focused and tough yet flexible enough to bend a class to my way of doing things. Once that is done, we all settle in and learn from each other. You can't slack off and must stay on top of the students at all times. You can't think that you can assign work or an assessment then go work on your computer. You have to be constantly on your feet cajoling, encouraging, getting people back on task. NO LET UP.I use humor and discipline. Most of the IE's I've worked with just didn't have those abilities - but thought they did.
If handling an unruly classroom is beyond your abilities, then go international. But for God's sake, please don't think that - just because you are an expat living the "glamorous expat life, you are any better than the foot soldiers who grind it out day after day in public schools, winning the small every day battles that all real teachers face. Because you simply are not.
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
Teaching in American public schools is not for everyone. Unlike in international schools, a public school teacher must not only have solid knowledge of subject matter but must also be able to control a classroom.
One of the things I disliked the most about teaching in international schools was having to deal with the arrogance and grand egos of teachers who NEVER had to teach under challenging conditions - like those in public schools - yet walked around as if they were God's gift to the education field.
The truth is that the first few weeks are sometimes a grind. I have to be focused and tough yet flexible enough to bend a class to my way of doing things. Once that is done, we all settle in and learn from each other. You can't slack off and must stay on top of the students at all times. You can't think that you can assign work or an assessment then go work on your computer. You have to be constantly on your feet cajoling, encouraging, getting people back on task. NO LET UP.I use humor and discipline. Most of the IE's I've worked with just didn't have those abilities - but thought they did.
If handling an unruly classroom is beyond your abilities, then go international. But for God's sake, please don't think that - just because you are an expat living the "glamorous expat life, you are any better than the foot soldiers who grind it out day after day in public schools, winning the small every day battles that all real teachers face. Because you simply are not.
One of the things I disliked the most about teaching in international schools was having to deal with the arrogance and grand egos of teachers who NEVER had to teach under challenging conditions - like those in public schools - yet walked around as if they were God's gift to the education field.
The truth is that the first few weeks are sometimes a grind. I have to be focused and tough yet flexible enough to bend a class to my way of doing things. Once that is done, we all settle in and learn from each other. You can't slack off and must stay on top of the students at all times. You can't think that you can assign work or an assessment then go work on your computer. You have to be constantly on your feet cajoling, encouraging, getting people back on task. NO LET UP.I use humor and discipline. Most of the IE's I've worked with just didn't have those abilities - but thought they did.
If handling an unruly classroom is beyond your abilities, then go international. But for God's sake, please don't think that - just because you are an expat living the "glamorous expat life, you are any better than the foot soldiers who grind it out day after day in public schools, winning the small every day battles that all real teachers face. Because you simply are not.
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
@senator
"must be able to control classrooms"
I would probably change that with "must be able to deal with out of control classes".
Some kids / classes you just can't control. Parents dont do anything. Kids already been suspended, got in school suspension, after school dentition, silent lunch, parent meetings, trips to admin offense, etc etc. None of it works.
You will see this much more in the US I presume. I actually think controlling the classroom and general classroom management comes more into play abroad. For example, I have been in Korea past 3 years and those kids will do what ever they can get by with. However, if you are strict and consistent with discipline they shap'en up. Where as the class I am in now in the US, doesnt matter how much classroom management or procedures you have. The kids just wont listen and do not care.
I have conflicting opinions on teachers that deal with these types of situations.
1) I admire their patience and ability to persevere.
2) On the other hand, I frown upon teachers that let kids control the classroom and create chaos. To clarify, when I say "let" I mean put up with it. Personally, id quite. No way in hell im wasting my time in a classroom that is a circus with disrespect left and right. In which no real learning is taking place. Basically, I am just in there telling kids to stop xyz the entire time.
"must be able to control classrooms"
I would probably change that with "must be able to deal with out of control classes".
Some kids / classes you just can't control. Parents dont do anything. Kids already been suspended, got in school suspension, after school dentition, silent lunch, parent meetings, trips to admin offense, etc etc. None of it works.
You will see this much more in the US I presume. I actually think controlling the classroom and general classroom management comes more into play abroad. For example, I have been in Korea past 3 years and those kids will do what ever they can get by with. However, if you are strict and consistent with discipline they shap'en up. Where as the class I am in now in the US, doesnt matter how much classroom management or procedures you have. The kids just wont listen and do not care.
I have conflicting opinions on teachers that deal with these types of situations.
1) I admire their patience and ability to persevere.
2) On the other hand, I frown upon teachers that let kids control the classroom and create chaos. To clarify, when I say "let" I mean put up with it. Personally, id quite. No way in hell im wasting my time in a classroom that is a circus with disrespect left and right. In which no real learning is taking place. Basically, I am just in there telling kids to stop xyz the entire time.
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
To MedellinHeel
No, don't change my words. I mean "able to control classrooms".
And don't think that because you have kids who just try to get by that that means you have some big classroom crisis. That's an easy thing to handle.
But I would agree with you that at some rotten places - these are not schools - teachers choose to put up with it. BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. And you, who are not in their league, have no right to judge them or even comment on them in any way.
So stay in Korea and be happy you have minor things to deal with.
No, don't change my words. I mean "able to control classrooms".
And don't think that because you have kids who just try to get by that that means you have some big classroom crisis. That's an easy thing to handle.
But I would agree with you that at some rotten places - these are not schools - teachers choose to put up with it. BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. And you, who are not in their league, have no right to judge them or even comment on them in any way.
So stay in Korea and be happy you have minor things to deal with.
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
senator wrote:
> To MedellinHeel
>
> No, don't change my words. I mean "able to control classrooms".
>
> And don't think that because you have kids who just try to get by that that
> means you have some big classroom crisis. That's an easy thing to handle.
>
> But I would agree with you that at some rotten places - these are not
> schools - teachers choose to put up with it. BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. And
> you, who are not in their league, have no right to judge them or even
> comment on them in any way.
>
> So stay in Korea and be happy you have minor things to deal with.
So explain to me how one is to easily handle (control) such a class like I mentioned?
No one is forcing anyone to work anywhere. At least not that I am aware of. Now, if you mean they might not have a better option and choose to put up with it, then yea, I would agree that might be the case. While some teachers do not even care and are only there for a paycheck.
I am not condemning them. You have to do what you have to do. Personally, even if I was in their shoes and also chose to tough it out, I wouldnt feel good about it. I would feel like I was compromising principle. I have left the school everyday for the past week not feeling good about myself and the situation. Id be embarrassed for someone to view me in my 1st class tbt.
Lol at teachers that only observe circuses and zoos everyday being out of anyone's league in regards to teaching. Calling that teaching is quite the stretch. I pity teachers in these situations. Not a lot of teaching or learning is taking place in those classrooms. Tough environment. One has to be insanely patient and care free to make it through each day without quitting or getting fired.
I do not blame the teachers for this. This is primarily the education system's doing. They cater to the bad kids and worry about appearance. When all they should be worried about is fostering controlled highly engaged classrooms that facilitate learning.
If a student can not refrain from disrupting the class they need to be thrown into ISS, everyday if need be. But no, cant do that. Flipping joke.
> To MedellinHeel
>
> No, don't change my words. I mean "able to control classrooms".
>
> And don't think that because you have kids who just try to get by that that
> means you have some big classroom crisis. That's an easy thing to handle.
>
> But I would agree with you that at some rotten places - these are not
> schools - teachers choose to put up with it. BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. And
> you, who are not in their league, have no right to judge them or even
> comment on them in any way.
>
> So stay in Korea and be happy you have minor things to deal with.
So explain to me how one is to easily handle (control) such a class like I mentioned?
No one is forcing anyone to work anywhere. At least not that I am aware of. Now, if you mean they might not have a better option and choose to put up with it, then yea, I would agree that might be the case. While some teachers do not even care and are only there for a paycheck.
I am not condemning them. You have to do what you have to do. Personally, even if I was in their shoes and also chose to tough it out, I wouldnt feel good about it. I would feel like I was compromising principle. I have left the school everyday for the past week not feeling good about myself and the situation. Id be embarrassed for someone to view me in my 1st class tbt.
Lol at teachers that only observe circuses and zoos everyday being out of anyone's league in regards to teaching. Calling that teaching is quite the stretch. I pity teachers in these situations. Not a lot of teaching or learning is taking place in those classrooms. Tough environment. One has to be insanely patient and care free to make it through each day without quitting or getting fired.
I do not blame the teachers for this. This is primarily the education system's doing. They cater to the bad kids and worry about appearance. When all they should be worried about is fostering controlled highly engaged classrooms that facilitate learning.
If a student can not refrain from disrupting the class they need to be thrown into ISS, everyday if need be. But no, cant do that. Flipping joke.
Discussion
Working the behavior management policy to the max is not always sufficient to correct behavior or improve the classroom environment. Much of it has to do with the philosophy and approach of the local authority as well as the DSs/ISs leadership.
ISs generally enjoy the benefit of beings elective, they can dismiss a student or refuse to allow them to return, however there are many ISS that cant do this because they need all the fees they can get or because ownership will not empower leadership to dismiss students.
Teaching in regulated domestic institutions in many places can be very challenging, England and Scotland has a number of DSs that are just as horrible as some of the train wrecks you find in the States, the same is true of DSs in France, Italy, etc. Where the demographic changes is in Asia, particularly in countries with brutally competitive education systems, and/or rigid cultures. However, these systems have issues as well, once a student has reached a point (which is fairly quickly) where they will never achieve their goals, they simply give up and attend school because they have too, and think nothing of doing any academic work at all.
I do agree with @senator that in general behavior and classroom management challenges are not to the scale of chaos you can find in a regulated/public DS, and ITs who left domestic education before the millennium did not have as many obstacles, and had more effective tools (responsive leadership, cooperating parents, etc.) in implementing classroom management, as well as ITs who had very minimal experience in domestic education at affluent and/or high achieving DSs.
The realist in many ISs though is that an IT can assign work, then retreat to their computer or desk and be reasonably assured that the students motivated solely by grades/marks will complete their tasking with a reasonable expenditure of effort.
What I strongly disagree with in @senators claim is that ITs can not address extreme and changeling classroom or behavior management conditions because they are ITs, and that they are successful in IE because they "cant hack" a "real" classroom domestically. Just because your a DT as an at risk DS does not mean you are any more a "soldier" at the fore front of learning grinding out those small wins everyday. Those DTs arent better because they are martyrs, nor does it impose a restriction on those who arent to have and express whatever opinion on the matter they deem prudent and/or necessary.
Where I disagree with @MedellinHeel is the behavior enforcement chain, that stops just short of the nuclear option, and thats expulsion. Its just not a term or action that modern municipal education is comfortable with anymore, do greatly to a large part in political policies and regulation that mandates some kind of education for everyone. When you look at regions and cultures that approach education as a privilege and not an entitlement it is that point that education and the role of educators becomes both more meaningful and influential. A lot of challenges with high risk students would disappear (within the context of education) if local authorities could rid themselves of problematic students who didnt conform to behavior expectations.
ISs generally enjoy the benefit of beings elective, they can dismiss a student or refuse to allow them to return, however there are many ISS that cant do this because they need all the fees they can get or because ownership will not empower leadership to dismiss students.
Teaching in regulated domestic institutions in many places can be very challenging, England and Scotland has a number of DSs that are just as horrible as some of the train wrecks you find in the States, the same is true of DSs in France, Italy, etc. Where the demographic changes is in Asia, particularly in countries with brutally competitive education systems, and/or rigid cultures. However, these systems have issues as well, once a student has reached a point (which is fairly quickly) where they will never achieve their goals, they simply give up and attend school because they have too, and think nothing of doing any academic work at all.
I do agree with @senator that in general behavior and classroom management challenges are not to the scale of chaos you can find in a regulated/public DS, and ITs who left domestic education before the millennium did not have as many obstacles, and had more effective tools (responsive leadership, cooperating parents, etc.) in implementing classroom management, as well as ITs who had very minimal experience in domestic education at affluent and/or high achieving DSs.
The realist in many ISs though is that an IT can assign work, then retreat to their computer or desk and be reasonably assured that the students motivated solely by grades/marks will complete their tasking with a reasonable expenditure of effort.
What I strongly disagree with in @senators claim is that ITs can not address extreme and changeling classroom or behavior management conditions because they are ITs, and that they are successful in IE because they "cant hack" a "real" classroom domestically. Just because your a DT as an at risk DS does not mean you are any more a "soldier" at the fore front of learning grinding out those small wins everyday. Those DTs arent better because they are martyrs, nor does it impose a restriction on those who arent to have and express whatever opinion on the matter they deem prudent and/or necessary.
Where I disagree with @MedellinHeel is the behavior enforcement chain, that stops just short of the nuclear option, and thats expulsion. Its just not a term or action that modern municipal education is comfortable with anymore, do greatly to a large part in political policies and regulation that mandates some kind of education for everyone. When you look at regions and cultures that approach education as a privilege and not an entitlement it is that point that education and the role of educators becomes both more meaningful and influential. A lot of challenges with high risk students would disappear (within the context of education) if local authorities could rid themselves of problematic students who didnt conform to behavior expectations.
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Discussion
PsyGuy wrote:
> What I strongly disagree with in @senators claim is that ITs can not
> address extreme and changeling classroom or behavior management conditions
> because they are ITs, and that they are successful in IE because they
> "cant hack" a "real" classroom domestically. Just
> because your a DT as an at risk DS does not mean you are any more a
> "soldier" at the fore front of learning grinding out those small
> wins everyday. Those DTs arent better because they are martyrs, nor does it
> impose a restriction on those who arent to have and express whatever
> opinion on the matter they deem prudent and/or necessary.
>
That was an absurd statement from Senator. Classroom management (or lets just say dealing/coping with extremely disrespectful unmotivated kids) is only a part of being a teacher.
> Where I disagree with @MedellinHeel is the behavior enforcement chain, that
> stops just short of the nuclear option, and thats expulsion. Its just not a
> term or action that modern municipal education is comfortable with anymore,
> do greatly to a large part in political policies and regulation that
> mandates some kind of education for everyone. When you look at regions and
> cultures that approach education as a privilege and not an entitlement it
> is that point that education and the role of educators becomes both more
> meaningful and influential. A lot of challenges with high risk students
> would disappear (within the context of education) if local authorities
> could rid themselves of problematic students who didnt conform to behavior
> expectations.
I am not sure we disagree here. Sounds like you actually agree with me.
Hell, I think schools are not comfortable with hardly any of the major discipline actions. Due to politics, regulations, and image. If a school and teacher have tried everything they know to do and the kid is still causing a big problem then it should be perfectly ok to have that kid in ISS for however many days and also suspend or expel him if things reach a breaking point. You are right about school and privilege.
I am surprised some parents have not got together to sue these schools for allowing the classrooms to turn into zoos. Seems to me there is some nice money to be made with that.
> What I strongly disagree with in @senators claim is that ITs can not
> address extreme and changeling classroom or behavior management conditions
> because they are ITs, and that they are successful in IE because they
> "cant hack" a "real" classroom domestically. Just
> because your a DT as an at risk DS does not mean you are any more a
> "soldier" at the fore front of learning grinding out those small
> wins everyday. Those DTs arent better because they are martyrs, nor does it
> impose a restriction on those who arent to have and express whatever
> opinion on the matter they deem prudent and/or necessary.
>
That was an absurd statement from Senator. Classroom management (or lets just say dealing/coping with extremely disrespectful unmotivated kids) is only a part of being a teacher.
> Where I disagree with @MedellinHeel is the behavior enforcement chain, that
> stops just short of the nuclear option, and thats expulsion. Its just not a
> term or action that modern municipal education is comfortable with anymore,
> do greatly to a large part in political policies and regulation that
> mandates some kind of education for everyone. When you look at regions and
> cultures that approach education as a privilege and not an entitlement it
> is that point that education and the role of educators becomes both more
> meaningful and influential. A lot of challenges with high risk students
> would disappear (within the context of education) if local authorities
> could rid themselves of problematic students who didnt conform to behavior
> expectations.
I am not sure we disagree here. Sounds like you actually agree with me.
Hell, I think schools are not comfortable with hardly any of the major discipline actions. Due to politics, regulations, and image. If a school and teacher have tried everything they know to do and the kid is still causing a big problem then it should be perfectly ok to have that kid in ISS for however many days and also suspend or expel him if things reach a breaking point. You are right about school and privilege.
I am surprised some parents have not got together to sue these schools for allowing the classrooms to turn into zoos. Seems to me there is some nice money to be made with that.
Repl
@MedellinHeel
In your statement "Some kids / classes you just can't control. Parents dont do anything. Kids already been suspended, got in school suspension, after school dentition, silent lunch, parent meetings, trips to admin offense, etc etc. None of it works."
You did not include expulsion in your enforcement chain. You could contend that it was included in the "etc." portion, however I find that absent expulsion, much like dismissal/termination for an employee, if you can not purge unwanted elements/students you can not ultimately correct a broken system. Those students know that sooner or later (likely sooner) they will be right back where they were.
I disagree with ISS as an enforcement tool, it isnt suspension when the student is still on campus. The purpose of suspension is temporary removal from the learning environment, further it removes responsibility and accountability from the parents. Make the parents actually "parent" their child for those 3,5,7,10 day suspensions at home, and I imagine wed see more constructive involvement from parents in behavior management.
In your statement "Some kids / classes you just can't control. Parents dont do anything. Kids already been suspended, got in school suspension, after school dentition, silent lunch, parent meetings, trips to admin offense, etc etc. None of it works."
You did not include expulsion in your enforcement chain. You could contend that it was included in the "etc." portion, however I find that absent expulsion, much like dismissal/termination for an employee, if you can not purge unwanted elements/students you can not ultimately correct a broken system. Those students know that sooner or later (likely sooner) they will be right back where they were.
I disagree with ISS as an enforcement tool, it isnt suspension when the student is still on campus. The purpose of suspension is temporary removal from the learning environment, further it removes responsibility and accountability from the parents. Make the parents actually "parent" their child for those 3,5,7,10 day suspensions at home, and I imagine wed see more constructive involvement from parents in behavior management.
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MedellinHeel
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:59 am
Re: Your opinions of classroom mgmt & discipline in IS's
@PsyG
Ultimately yes, one needs expulsion. Should be like after a set number of ISS's or for very severe one time offenses. However, even if you do not expel the student, atleast get him out of the teacher's classroom and into ISS aka a holding den lol. No one cares if they are loud and off task in ISS. Teachers just tell them the assignment and if they do it great, if not, oh well. Then, at least the teacher can actual focus on teaching and the kids that want to learn can learn in a conducive environment.
I think you are giving a little too much credit to the parents to think expulsion will force them to be responsible etc. I imagine they would just leave the kid at home alone or to his own devices and not really bother with it or care. In these house holds education, discipline, etc do not appear to be priorities. But yes, I imagine some would force some parents to take some action.
When did schools start catering to bad students, politics, and other BS? In no way should it be an issue or looked down on teachers or admin for disciplining (to what ever extent is needed) bad kids.
Ultimately yes, one needs expulsion. Should be like after a set number of ISS's or for very severe one time offenses. However, even if you do not expel the student, atleast get him out of the teacher's classroom and into ISS aka a holding den lol. No one cares if they are loud and off task in ISS. Teachers just tell them the assignment and if they do it great, if not, oh well. Then, at least the teacher can actual focus on teaching and the kids that want to learn can learn in a conducive environment.
I think you are giving a little too much credit to the parents to think expulsion will force them to be responsible etc. I imagine they would just leave the kid at home alone or to his own devices and not really bother with it or care. In these house holds education, discipline, etc do not appear to be priorities. But yes, I imagine some would force some parents to take some action.
When did schools start catering to bad students, politics, and other BS? In no way should it be an issue or looked down on teachers or admin for disciplining (to what ever extent is needed) bad kids.