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sdakota

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Post by sdakota »

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PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

Two very different responses to your scenario. First to answer your question, I know your trying to spin and frame your previous work experience but you have to know it doesnt mean anything. ESOL prior to licensure and not part of a established recognized IS isnt worth anything. Instructional Assistant isnt worth anything. The STEM experience may be worth something, but nothing for step, and even if it was ISs are moving towards two year steps and they dont do half or quarter steps. The student teaching doesnt have any value but combined a bottom tier IS thats desperate may consider you having a year of experience. You have to know your really under experienced even for an entry level fair.
I can see why SA accepted you your partner meets the threshold, and your certified and as a teaching couple you are not a complete burden.

The real answer to your question is you have an EU passport so you should cancel and request a refund from ISS and SA, forget the BOS fair, and the Iowa fair, focus on your student teaching forget about IE, ISs, and being an IT. In May start looking at the ISs on TES, you will find tier 2 and many better ISs in WE including Italy, France, Spain, Switzerland, etc. that when they find out you have an EU passport will beg you to work for them, and given the time of recruiting and their lack of options and you will very likely get a better offer and have more negotiating leverage than if you went to a fair in January or at any other time. They wont care how much experience you have only that you are a licensed teacher and employable.

The only two objectives you should do in the meantime is getting your spouse an EU passport though your country based on marriage and applying for QTS as soon as you receive your professional state teaching license.
sdakota

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by sdakota »

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shadowjack
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by shadowjack »

PsyGuy raises some valid points: however, TES usually advertises for British Curriculum schools. So if you are not well versed in SOWS, infant, primary and junior KS 1 and 2 curriculum, you will be competing against Brits and expats who are Brit trained.

What would I do - keep your membership in either Search or ISS, but not both. Look online on TES (tesjobs dot co dot uk) and also join the TES site (TES is the Times Education Supplement which comes out every Friday as part of your London Times). Another way of doing it is going with a UK recruiter (both you and your spouse). Your national certification is now ported over quite easily compared with the past and you can hold out for a full time position somewhere in the UK (but expect, quite honestly, a crappy school, which would be the case most places you went, as if they could hire someone with experience and quality, most often they would), but it would get you a year of experience in the UK system and then you can move on and look in Europe itself (plus the half term week long holiday and term 2 week holidays are brilliant for travelling around, combined with Ryanair or Easyjet).

Just my 2 cents - but I would not put all my eggs in one basket simply on hope and forego everything else.

Shad
sdakota

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Post by sdakota »

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PsyGuy
Posts: 10849
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

TES carries carries British and Euro ISs. About the only thing you dont find is a lot of AS. None of that really matters there isnt a huge difference amongst primary education (with the exception of PYP) its still a literacy and numeracy focus.

The issue with SJs approach is that you will be competing at the same time and with the same ITs for WE vacancies nullifying the aspect of your EU passport, since they have the time and resources to be selective, and your resumes are not going to be competitive compared to other ITs. Your going to lose negotiating leverage. This is why you want to wait until May, when those schools dont get to be selective, they need ITs they can employ. There is no reason to spend a year in the UK.
whoamI?
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:02 am

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by whoamI? »

Are there are any lower tier international schools listed on search associates? If not, I think you should consider getting a refund. Never used it myself, so I'm a little naive.

Sorry to be brutally honest, but I think you and the wife need to start at a bottom tier school, due to your experiences.

You've got 6 months experience that may count as something, but even then its only six months, which is going to probably make employers wonder "why was he only working for six months?" If you're headed to China, I can definitely recommend some schools that will hire you and your beloved. These schools are third tier, put they pay you on time, but perhaps not pay you enough for the the whippings and flacks of skin they will take off your back as you're overworked.

The reality is this: put your time in a bottom level school, and then when you get into a better school you learn to appreciate it better.

The plus side is this though: your wife is also a teacher, which will help you in most cases. Its easier for international schools to get a visa for someone if they are married to another teacher (makes arguing with the director a little easier, so says my Chinese colleagues). its easier to stick two teachers in a paid apartment by the school (though you'll probably be at a school that won't pay for your rent).

As for getting your ducks to quack in a row: bring all your original documents (degree, diploma, birth cert, sin number, transcripts etc etc). I've only ever taught in China, but visa regulations change like night and day here. Most of the schools I will recommend you too will either require Canadian or some sort of teaching certification. They will probably interview you, VIA Skype. You'll get hired, the wife will get hired, and everyone's happy.

Thus stated, now that I've made it clear that these third tier schools will hire anyone who breathes and has a teaching certification, what can you expect from these bottom barrel schools? I'll try to write out a list of pro and cons. Lets start with the heavy cons:

-heavy workload
-prepare to mark until you have blisters on your left and right hands
-Business is the usual; education is a second option
-mouldy hallways, mouldy classrooms, or both
-Pay for your own school supplies, cause your salary is too big.
-no central heating/ no ac in your classroom for hot days.
-your principal being powerless, and letting the local administration make all the decisions about everything (principal is simply a manager or "police officer" that enforces the rules from the local admin- essentially a puppet).
-Be prepared to work at schools that may have high turnover (50%-60% is not uncommon).
-poor compensation
-housing costs are deducted from your pay
-sketchy pay stubs that make no sense
-taxes that are deducted are all written in the local language , forcing you to either translate it yourself, or work with a very grumpy accountant back home!
-Expect to work 200 school days as dictated by the contract. My new school only works me 177 days, but i've been at a school that worked me 199 days of the year.
- expect to work saturdays (teach on saturday, YEAH- the kids love it too)!
-expect the contract to read like "if you break this, you'll be sent to the firing squad"
+But if you break it, at least in China, it really means nothing.
+- if you break it, and your principal really likes you, and you do things to help the "business" side of the school, he may beg for you to stay, offer you more money, give you less work.... basically, if you stay a long time at third tier international schools you can rake in 65k CAD a year with no take home marking. Thats if you do things to DEVELOP the BUSINESS, not if you sing songs to your kids, or if you actually teach. These third tier schools could care less if you did all your marking during class time. its all about the business. Some third tier schools just need a body in the classroom, seriously. On the flip side, if you're willing to go career at third tier schools, you need to be willing to step on the grunts who have no exp. Delegate all your work to the teachers, and then you can sit in your admin chair and simply police what the local admin wants-- 65k CAD a year; no take home marking, no prep! I’m not trying to bash on administrators here, but this is all from my exp (I’ve got admin experience from a third tier school).

What are the positives for working at bottom barrel schools? And perhaps my list isn't even the worst above, these are just my experiences
+get your experience
+you still get paid for your holidays and summer, unless yours school tries to make sketchy deductions from your paycheck. In that case, you argue with the admin.
+If you stay for a year, or 2 you may be offered a department head position, you may also be offered a position in foreign administration, which ultimately leaves you powerless, but gives you something pretty to pepper your resume with.
+ you become a good teacher really fast if you truly care about your kids. Most lower tier schools will work you to death because of your blocking schedule. 730-430 is pretty normal. Don't expect to leave at 3:00 like teachers do back home in public schools. 730-430 most days, sometimes 730-6 for your extracurriculars (oops this is a a negative)!!!! On the flip side, I know some top dog international schools will work you long, but at least you're being compensated for it!
+You might get decent health insurance, YOU WILL get local health insurance as its stipulated by law here in China. Doesn't mean its amazing, but the fact that you have it is a plus. International schools in China HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR INSURANCE. Most lower tier international schools will argue this is something they do cause they care about their workers etc etc, even though its mandatory for the school to pay for it.
+think of it this way: if you wanna work in a high class restaurant, you need some experience in the service industry first- mcdonalds (third tier schools) will prove to be an excellent stepping stone!


I hope this advice helps- please PM me if you want me to rec you and your wife to a school that is third tier and will hire you in a heartbeat.

Good luck, and if my wordsmith raised any offence I sincerely apologize.
sdakota

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by sdakota »

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Overhere
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:29 am

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by Overhere »

sdakota, I think you raise some valid questions regarding your qualifications. However, I don't think you should sell yourself or your partner short. If you only aim low, then I can guarantee that you will end up at a "tier 3" school, whatever that is. You need to decide where you would be willing to teach, don't limit yourself, and then make a large number of contacts at a wide variety of schools. You never know what schools are looking for and whose desk your resume might fall on.
whoamI?
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:02 am

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by whoamI? »

Overhere wrote:
> sdakota, I think you raise some valid questions regarding your
> qualifications. However, I don't think you should sell yourself or your
> partner short. If you only aim low, then I can guarantee that you will end
> up at a "tier 3" school, whatever that is. You need to decide
> where you would be willing to teach, don't limit yourself, and then make a
> large number of contacts at a wide variety of schools. You never know what
> schools are looking for and whose desk your resume might fall on.

I agree to a certain degree. Some schools, however, cannot and will not hire teachers with no experience, because of visa regulations.

I would also argue that starting "low" isn't always bad. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you assertain not to "sell yourself short," but how can one truly appreciate a great school when you haven't had a job before that, well quite frankly, sucked?

Stepping stones are not a bad thing in life, but thats just my opinion.
Glerky
Posts: 86
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Location: Middle of the East

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by Glerky »

Hi guys,

I have been overseas awhile and have been hired several different ways and the one psyguy gives good advice but the one thing I disagree with him on is the quitting both the agencies. You've already paid for SA so keep it. If it is close or not too expensive why wouldn't you go to a fair? It isn't going to hurt and sometimes you can 'Wow!' someone in an interview. I have been at several tier 1 schools where couples were hired with little to no experience because they talked the talk and the admin ate it up. It can happen. It happened to me with 2 years experience and I got a job at a tier 1 school in Germany. Not trying to give you false hope but why not try.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

Yes, there are lower tier/third tier ISs listed with SA.

The LW does not need to start at a bottom tier IS and the strategy as outlined above is designed to avoid exactly that pathway. If the LW is going to follow the conventional recruiting pathway they are going to find themselves ina pool with MANY higher qualified ITs, and more importantly ISs that have the time to secure work permits and visas, as such those ISs can afford to be selective. By avoiding the conventional recruiting pathway and waiting until May/June they will be able to extract better contracts and offers form ISs that wont be in a position to look elswhere, since it takes WE ISs in those regions 3-6 months to secure a visa and work permit, by having EU passports they present themselves regardless of experience as HIGHLY niched ITs (Americans) with permission to work int he EU, the pool of ITs from AUS/CAN/USA cant in general make that claim.
Glerky
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:09 am
Location: Middle of the East

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by Glerky »

You're fired up PsyGuy... if that is your real name...

As I said... I agree with you... I would advise them that sense they have paid the money... why not try their luck...? I would... if something good didn't come up in the winter then wait until the EU schools post those vacancies. That being said they will be rolling the dice either way. Good luck you two.
sdakota

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Post by sdakota »

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whoamI?
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:02 am

Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re

Post by whoamI? »

Glerky wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I have been overseas awhile and have been hired several different ways and
> the one psyguy gives good advice but the one thing I disagree with him on
> is the quitting both the agencies. You've already paid for SA so keep it.
> If it is close or not too expensive why wouldn't you go to a fair? It isn't
> going to hurt and sometimes you can 'Wow!' someone in an interview. I have
> been at several tier 1 schools where couples were hired with little to no
> experience because they talked the talk and the admin ate it up. It can
> happen. It happened to me with 2 years experience and I got a job at a tier
> 1 school in Germany. Not trying to give you false hope but why not try.

I'd be interested to know which tier 1 schools are hiring couples with no experience. Please do share. You got in after 2 years experience. OP has 6 months.

I have friends who have 1 year experience in a 3rd tier school, applied to say, SheKou international school in Shenzhen China (probably a second tier school) got the job, but was hired and then fired because the Shenzhen government wouldn't give him a visa. Why? Because that person lacked experience. I also have a friend with 4 years experience who applied to the Canadian International School of (can't remember which city) cause her parents worked there, and she still didn't get hired despite her parents rec... and she teaches science and math. I think the Canadian International School of China (can't remember which city) is top tier. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Not sure if other countries are applying these same visa restrictions, but its something to note and make sure you have other "ducks quacking" in a row before you put all your eggs in a basket. But as a teacher with 6 month EXP, I really do think you have very limited options. But I'd still attend the July fare to get interview experience.

Like I've argued above: starting low isn't bad, and from my experience, it makes you appreciate even an upper third tier international school that much more. Here's the meat:

Teachers are busy everywhere, I am not going to make the argument that certain schools work you harder than others, what I am going to argue is this: teachers work hard everywhere, but some teachers are compensated better for their passion.

For example:

you work 60 hours a week at a tier 3 international school, making 45 000 Canadian dollars a year. For the month of January you work a total of 250 hours (adding in a few hours for those late late 12 pmers and desk sleep days (no time to change your underwear)). Your salary per month is about 3200 dollars. If you break your monthly salary down to hours, you're actually being paid a little bit more than a burger flipper at Burger King. It comes out to about 12.90 an hour.

I am arguing all teachers work HARD! Some teachers may even put in 100 hour weeks!!

Now imagine putting in 60 hours a week on a 80 000 dollar salary, with paid lunches, housing stipends, and a school that will give you a 2000 dollar bonus at the end of your second year, I've heard some schools help out with your mortgage payments, and some schools even pay for your taxes-so everything you make is net.

Now try NOT working 60+ hour weeks in a school that compensates you very well for your hard work?

Starting low isn't bad, and a lot of people on these forums make it seem that it's a last option, but why not make it your first? It seriously does wonders for your career, and it simply makes you appreciate what you have once you're in a school that actually cares about teacher retention. Most third tier schools care about admin retention, and thats about it.

I'll email you a list of schools which I think are third tier, will pay you on time, and give you a promotion to admin after about 2-4 years of service. You may even get a discount on a masters program, or paid time your full salary while you work on your masters full time.

Good luck!
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