I've been out of the international school world for about 5 years and am hoping to go back in the next few years. I taught for four years at two decent international schools. My spouse worked in another sector while abroad, however we both decided that it would be best if we both worked at the same school in order to increase savings potential. We have two children and know that there is a greater probability of our kids going to the school if we both work there.
My spouse is in the process of getting his school counseling license and fluently speaks a few languages. I am a secondary science teacher and MYP coordinator. I've taught for seven years at authorized IB schools. I have attended five or six MYP workshops in different regions of the world. I am also an active member of IBEN and do school site visits and lead MYP workshops. In the past I was a member of ISS and would probably go that route again.
What are the prospects looking like these days for a couple like us given that my spouse will be relatively new to his field?
Teaching couple question
Response
Your marketable for 2nd tier and competitive for 1st tier. Experience isnt as important for counselors as it is for ITs. First, your not technically a mental health practitioner overseas, you are essentially a consultant for the IS. Second, counselors in ISs dont really do a lot of counseling, its mostly a junior admin and student management position. Third, an IS isnt going to make or break its scores on a counselor.
You shouldnt have much of a problem, the kids are going to be the biggest logistical factor, youve improved the logistical metrics but your still expensive.
You shouldnt have much of a problem, the kids are going to be the biggest logistical factor, youve improved the logistical metrics but your still expensive.
Re: Teaching couple question
Once again PsyGuy is posting inaccurate information.
In all the international schools I have worked in, the counselors do a significant amount of mental health work, particularly in the American style schools. In many international countries there is limited mental health counselors in the community who speak English, so it falls to the school counselors. Also, the counselors should do little to no student management.
The issue for your husband is the college admission piece. Some schools are big enough to have some counselors to college admission and others for the academic/social emotional piece. You may struggle getting interviews at a school that requires all their high school counselors to do college admission due to the high stakes nature of it. I would encourage him to become as conversant as possible with the process for college admission in the US, Canada, and UK at a minimum.
In all the international schools I have worked in, the counselors do a significant amount of mental health work, particularly in the American style schools. In many international countries there is limited mental health counselors in the community who speak English, so it falls to the school counselors. Also, the counselors should do little to no student management.
The issue for your husband is the college admission piece. Some schools are big enough to have some counselors to college admission and others for the academic/social emotional piece. You may struggle getting interviews at a school that requires all their high school counselors to do college admission due to the high stakes nature of it. I would encourage him to become as conversant as possible with the process for college admission in the US, Canada, and UK at a minimum.
Reply
No, its not inaccurate. IS Counselors practice mental health in the way the school nurse dispensing a paracetamol is practicing medicine, or the way a Chelsea girl sees her doctor to get her Diazapam.
IS Counselors are student management positions, they are an approachable liaison with administration.
IS Counselors are student management positions, they are an approachable liaison with administration.
Re: Teaching couple question
I appreciate both perspectives, and will mention both to my spouse. He is definitely more seasoned as mental health counselor, and it would benefit him to gain the college admissions piece. We definitely want to keep options open.
Glad to hear that I might have a chance at a Tier 1 school. Last time around we lived in expensive cities and did not save a penny. They were quality experiences that led to many good things professionally. This time around we are hoping to couple those great experiences with savings as well.
Glad to hear that I might have a chance at a Tier 1 school. Last time around we lived in expensive cities and did not save a penny. They were quality experiences that led to many good things professionally. This time around we are hoping to couple those great experiences with savings as well.
Re: Teaching couple question
@PsyGuy,
If that is your opinion of IS counselors, then you have not worked with good ones. I have been fortunate to have outstanding counselors in all five of the international schools I have worked in who have made a tremendous difference in families lives because of their counselling skills.
Any counselor considering heading overseas needs to understand they may need to fill that role because of the lack of community resources.
If that is your opinion of IS counselors, then you have not worked with good ones. I have been fortunate to have outstanding counselors in all five of the international schools I have worked in who have made a tremendous difference in families lives because of their counselling skills.
Any counselor considering heading overseas needs to understand they may need to fill that role because of the lack of community resources.
Reply
@Nomads
Ive worked with great counselors, performance and quality is not solely dictated by the quantity and degree of mental health an IS counselor provides, which is to say its not much. There is no:
1) Molestation, no family member got a student pregnant, there isnt a daily fear of rape.
2) Poverty, IS families can afford or have a OSH package benefit that pays for schooling, a well resourced home, etc parents are not short on resources. The student is going home mustard and ketchup cracker sandwiches.
3) Gang violence, etc.
4) Students dont work full time jobs so the family doesnt starve or can pay rent.
5) Students generally are not using/abusing drugs.
The issues restricting mental health at an IS are two fold either A) its an upper tier IS and the parents/family have available resources that permit them a professional mental health provider such as a therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist, etc. They dont need to rely on a school counselor. B) At a lower tier IS primarily with host nationals either the culture is not accepting of telling strangers your problems, or the language barrier restricts the therapeutic process.
Counselors handle mental health issues such as bullying, because the counselor is more approachable than an admin, or potential depression/suicide. Everything else is student management.
Ive worked with great counselors, performance and quality is not solely dictated by the quantity and degree of mental health an IS counselor provides, which is to say its not much. There is no:
1) Molestation, no family member got a student pregnant, there isnt a daily fear of rape.
2) Poverty, IS families can afford or have a OSH package benefit that pays for schooling, a well resourced home, etc parents are not short on resources. The student is going home mustard and ketchup cracker sandwiches.
3) Gang violence, etc.
4) Students dont work full time jobs so the family doesnt starve or can pay rent.
5) Students generally are not using/abusing drugs.
The issues restricting mental health at an IS are two fold either A) its an upper tier IS and the parents/family have available resources that permit them a professional mental health provider such as a therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist, etc. They dont need to rely on a school counselor. B) At a lower tier IS primarily with host nationals either the culture is not accepting of telling strangers your problems, or the language barrier restricts the therapeutic process.
Counselors handle mental health issues such as bullying, because the counselor is more approachable than an admin, or potential depression/suicide. Everything else is student management.
Re: Teaching couple question
Hi Earth Girl,
To increase your competitiveness as a couple, your husband may want to focus on middle or elementary school counseling. Tier 1 and strong tier 2 high school divisions set themselves apart with college acceptances and standardized test results. In all honesty 50-75% of HS counselors time and energy gets spent on the admissions process.
HS Counselors are key players in helping students and families understand how to prepare for these types of tests, and how to set themselves apart as college applicants. Schools also put a premium on counselors who are well-networked with college admissions officers and regional reps. If more seasoned intl counselors are competing with your husband for a position, you can imagine how hard it would be for him to get an offer. Attending OACAC the summer before you recruit would be a start.
if your husband could add some training around assessing learning disabilities (KBIT, WISC, Myers Briggs, ect) it would really strengthen his chances at landing a high end MS or ES position. His therapy skills will also be helpful, but ideally counselors refer long term counseling out to community resources. Short term counseling strategies around stress, anxiety, depression, eating, cutting, relationships, self esteem and transition are all you really need.
NACAC posts sample school counselor job descriptions. I would use that description over other descriptions posted on this thread.
To increase your competitiveness as a couple, your husband may want to focus on middle or elementary school counseling. Tier 1 and strong tier 2 high school divisions set themselves apart with college acceptances and standardized test results. In all honesty 50-75% of HS counselors time and energy gets spent on the admissions process.
HS Counselors are key players in helping students and families understand how to prepare for these types of tests, and how to set themselves apart as college applicants. Schools also put a premium on counselors who are well-networked with college admissions officers and regional reps. If more seasoned intl counselors are competing with your husband for a position, you can imagine how hard it would be for him to get an offer. Attending OACAC the summer before you recruit would be a start.
if your husband could add some training around assessing learning disabilities (KBIT, WISC, Myers Briggs, ect) it would really strengthen his chances at landing a high end MS or ES position. His therapy skills will also be helpful, but ideally counselors refer long term counseling out to community resources. Short term counseling strategies around stress, anxiety, depression, eating, cutting, relationships, self esteem and transition are all you really need.
NACAC posts sample school counselor job descriptions. I would use that description over other descriptions posted on this thread.
Discussion
Its a nice idea, but I dont see your spouse being competitive for a 1st tier IS and most of the large ISs that have grade level counselors are top tier ISs. Many ISs have one whole school counselor.
I agree with @nikkor that the majority of a counselor (who has responsibility for upper secondary) is mostly university and career advising. In that regard Ivy Uni experience or experience working in admissions or enrollment services is what ISs are really looking for.
As far as psych-metrics its a nich part of the job. ISs either use the Weschler or the Stanford-Binet (its not just the childrens version, WISC) both are intelligence assessments, they dont have a strong correlation tin diagnostic use for identifying learning disabilities (he KBIT is almost useless for learning disabilities). They are primarily used when a parent wants a child tested or as a predictive measure of potential student success and achievement. The Myers-Briggs is a personality instrument its almost pop-psyc, it certainly produces some interesting findings, but nothing thats diagnostic for learning disorders.
Further agree with nikkor on the handful of acute short term intervention causes listed.
I agree with @nikkor that the majority of a counselor (who has responsibility for upper secondary) is mostly university and career advising. In that regard Ivy Uni experience or experience working in admissions or enrollment services is what ISs are really looking for.
As far as psych-metrics its a nich part of the job. ISs either use the Weschler or the Stanford-Binet (its not just the childrens version, WISC) both are intelligence assessments, they dont have a strong correlation tin diagnostic use for identifying learning disabilities (he KBIT is almost useless for learning disabilities). They are primarily used when a parent wants a child tested or as a predictive measure of potential student success and achievement. The Myers-Briggs is a personality instrument its almost pop-psyc, it certainly produces some interesting findings, but nothing thats diagnostic for learning disorders.
Further agree with nikkor on the handful of acute short term intervention causes listed.
Re: Teaching couple question
Psyguy, good catch on the Myers Briggs part of my comment. I shouldn't be typing when half asleep.
Re: Teaching couple question
@Psyguy
You continue to prove your ignorance. NO MOLESTATION!!!! Not using drugs! Of course there is. Yes, there are fewer issues with violence in the streets and poverty. Here are the list of issues the counselors at my schools have dealt with in the past few years.
Sexual abuse, physical abuse (often by parents)
Depression
Anxiety
Suicide ideation and attempts
Cutting
Divorce, multi-family arrangements
Single parent families
Stress of living in a dangerous country
International schools needs excellent mental health professionals to provide the best possible service to the families because they are often the only resource available.
You continue to prove your ignorance. NO MOLESTATION!!!! Not using drugs! Of course there is. Yes, there are fewer issues with violence in the streets and poverty. Here are the list of issues the counselors at my schools have dealt with in the past few years.
Sexual abuse, physical abuse (often by parents)
Depression
Anxiety
Suicide ideation and attempts
Cutting
Divorce, multi-family arrangements
Single parent families
Stress of living in a dangerous country
International schools needs excellent mental health professionals to provide the best possible service to the families because they are often the only resource available.
Reply
@Nomads
Not with the frequency those events occur in the States, you want to compare quality of life on an IS to an inner city as risk domestic school? Ill take that challenge.
Sexual Abuse: Sure youve had a case here and there look at JIS in Indonesia, it can happen, now consider frequency, you get what one case a year maybe, and your region has vast resources to deal with those. Thats a couple hours of documentation and maybe 30 minutes of testimony.
Depression/Anxiety: Welcome to the life of an angsty teenager. Sure you deal with some acute cases, someone said something mean on FB/Vine/Instagram about someone else. Brian doent like Julia, because Jennifer has a bigger chest. Thats called adolescence, and any student with long term issues would be referred out to community resources, parents can afford a real counselor and therapist.
Sucicide: Thats an accepted practice ina number of cultures, and again way over the school counselors resources, they need hospitalization and a dedicated TEAM of professional mental health workers. Great idea to have the school counselor identify it, your part of the care chain, but your the first link and a lot of other better qualified professionals come after you.
Cutting: This is a sign of depression, that can lead to suicide, already covered above.
Divorce; Yeah happens dad finds someone younger and thinner. Happens a lot, kids need a MFT and professional long term help if its an issue, not the school counselor.
Single Parent Families: What all single parent families are broken? Why is that an automatic "problem" kids cant grow without two parents?
Stress of living in a dangerous country: This isnt going to be fixed with therapy, this requires education in that 1) The US is one of the most dangerous countries in the world (and the UK isnt all rainbows and unicorns) and 2) a lot of "dangers" can be mitigated by street sense and situational awareness. Without that, sure you have stress, but thats the equivalent of treating heart disease ONLY with medication and not the underlying cause.
School Counselors are like school nurses they are great for a band-aid, or when their is a acute emergency, but they arent a hospital and they arent a physician, which is whats required for long term care of any mental health issue or short term treatment of serious mental health issues.
Not with the frequency those events occur in the States, you want to compare quality of life on an IS to an inner city as risk domestic school? Ill take that challenge.
Sexual Abuse: Sure youve had a case here and there look at JIS in Indonesia, it can happen, now consider frequency, you get what one case a year maybe, and your region has vast resources to deal with those. Thats a couple hours of documentation and maybe 30 minutes of testimony.
Depression/Anxiety: Welcome to the life of an angsty teenager. Sure you deal with some acute cases, someone said something mean on FB/Vine/Instagram about someone else. Brian doent like Julia, because Jennifer has a bigger chest. Thats called adolescence, and any student with long term issues would be referred out to community resources, parents can afford a real counselor and therapist.
Sucicide: Thats an accepted practice ina number of cultures, and again way over the school counselors resources, they need hospitalization and a dedicated TEAM of professional mental health workers. Great idea to have the school counselor identify it, your part of the care chain, but your the first link and a lot of other better qualified professionals come after you.
Cutting: This is a sign of depression, that can lead to suicide, already covered above.
Divorce; Yeah happens dad finds someone younger and thinner. Happens a lot, kids need a MFT and professional long term help if its an issue, not the school counselor.
Single Parent Families: What all single parent families are broken? Why is that an automatic "problem" kids cant grow without two parents?
Stress of living in a dangerous country: This isnt going to be fixed with therapy, this requires education in that 1) The US is one of the most dangerous countries in the world (and the UK isnt all rainbows and unicorns) and 2) a lot of "dangers" can be mitigated by street sense and situational awareness. Without that, sure you have stress, but thats the equivalent of treating heart disease ONLY with medication and not the underlying cause.
School Counselors are like school nurses they are great for a band-aid, or when their is a acute emergency, but they arent a hospital and they arent a physician, which is whats required for long term care of any mental health issue or short term treatment of serious mental health issues.
Re: Teaching couple question
@nikkor - After speaking with my husband it seems that he feels more comfortable going the elementary/middle school counselor road for now. He is already a licensed mental health counselor and needs to take 2 classes to get his school counseling license. Of course he'll then need a few years experience. Thanks for the tips on areas of focus and the resources.
My new question: In your opinion, will a Tier 1 school even consider a couple where both candidates are not top-notch?
My new question: In your opinion, will a Tier 1 school even consider a couple where both candidates are not top-notch?