IB Certification

cattalus
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:48 pm

IB Certification

Post by cattalus »

Looking to get into International teaching. I have twelve years of experience teaching various subjects in the social studies field but primarily history. I have multiple years of experience in the middle school setting, though for the last seven years I have been primarily high school. I am new registered with Search and from their database, I have seen that IB or MYP experience is almost a pre-req for every job. In my current school I have no chance of gaining this experience, however there is a local university that is offering an IB certification program that can be completed in 6 months. It costs about $6,000 and I am wondering if getting it would get my foot in the door of these schools. I am also curious if schools are significantly interested in recent experience in the age levels. Should I be requesting to teach some middle school classes?
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: IB Certification

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

In past discussions, I believe the general consensus was that the IB certification was generally not seen as worth the investment of time and money. It would show potential employers that offered the IB that you are motivated to learn about the program but wouldn't really give you that much of a leg up (i.e. better than nothing but not really going to get you that much attention or extra consideration). Maybe someone will offer a different opinion/perspective this time around.

In general, there should be more non-IB schools/jobs than you are currently seeing. The IB is popular but not quite THAT popular yet. Also, just realize that while every school that offers IB would like candidates to have IB experience, many/most schools are perfectly willing to hire good candidates very year and send them for training. A better strategy for getting out there might be to widen the range of schools you would consider and take a job at less desirable school/location that would however train you and give you 2 years experience in teaching the IB.

As for experience, yes of course schools will want candidates to have recent experience teaching the subject and grade they are applying for but having experience with both should still serve you well. You could request to be teaching a mix of middle and high school classes but I don't think it would really be a job maker or breaker in most cases.

Good luck and ask any questions that come to mind as you get further into things.
shadowjack
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: IB Certification

Post by shadowjack »

wow your local uni is really raking in the bucks!

Honestly, start by reading the IB MYP documents, such as "From Principles to Practice" and your teaching area guide. Assess whether what you do (prescribed vs open-ended, student vs teacher centered, authentic assessment based on standards and rubrics vs teacher check marks, formative assessment in relation to summative assessment, and more) to see whether it is a fit for you. Understand that in many international schools, curriculum in the IB MYP varies HUGELY, because there are NO set resources.

Then start examining the IB DP guides which are far more prescribed, entail fr more depth and rigour, and veer towards more of an A-Level approach than an AP approach.

Once you have done this, then start thinking about how you can incorporate IB practices into your teaching. My present school hired me with no IB experience because I was already teaching IB due to my philosophy and practice and it became clear in the in-depth followup interviews and questions that I was doing so. Then they sent me for training.

Just my two cents/halalas on how to save 6,000 bucks (as you might be able to tell, my advice is save your money!0

shad
vandsmith
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:16 am

Re: IB Certification

Post by vandsmith »

i would never pay for IB certification, and especially not that much!

it would be better to get into a school that does IB and they'll send you for training. just because you have had the training isn't the same as having experience in teaching it.

wow, $6000 - crazy.

v.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10849
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

The rule when it comes to IB is that no amount of training equals any amount of experience. Training does little to increase your marketability. Admins and recruiters want evidence that you can practice and apply IB in the classroom and do so successfully. The academics just dont transfer very well to practice. The only thing IB training is worth is makes you slightly more marketable then those with nothing. Understand that there are several types of training, the most common that ITs are familiar with is the workshop, and this is usually presented over a weekend (F2F). Online options exist as well over the span of several weeks. The lowest price Ive found is about $600 per workshop for registration fees alone.
Another training option is the IB Teaching and Learning Certificates, and I believe this is the course program your local university is offering. Many recruiters and admins do not have a high opinion of this program. It is more a general international education program and has little practical applicability (I have one).

$6000 would be a good price if you were so inclined.

The IB is popular but as wrldtrvlr123 wrote its not that popular. What your seeing is a time when lower tier schools mainly in EUR, are recruiting.

With 7 years at upper secondary you are fine, I would not advise moving down to lower secondary, as the admin assumption is that you can "teach down" from whatever your subject is. Spending time in lower secondary would just reduce your marketability in upper secondary, and the expectation is that a secondary teacher can teach all grade levels in their subject.

Unfortunately the IB documents you would need are available on the OCC which is not accessible to the general public.
The MYP has recently adopted more prescription but in the past and to a lessor degree its still very flexible. It used to be said that MYP was like jello and you could make it into anything you wanted it to look like. DIP (Diploma) is far more prescribed and structured, but if you have AP (or A levels, IGCSE) experience DIP wont be much of an adoption to you, its still a course guideline/checklist of material you need to get though in about 2 years.
It is not difficult at all to learn the IB terminology and use it in an interview, and many IB practitioners agree that IB is just best practices of inquiry based guided discovery with its own dictionary.
The IBs program of inquiry based pedagogy isnt that revolutionary or a big secret. Most teachers during university get some training in it, and the methods and specifics arent rocket science. You could spend an afternoon reviewing the OCC and be OK for MYP, a weekend in your subject and youd be OK for DIP. PYP really takes some time to "unlearn" what you already knew, but the fundamental concepts arent hard. Still despite this many schools want teachers with prior IB experience. Its so important that prior IB experience can make the difference between an offer from a tier 1 instead of a tier 2 school.
shadowjack
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: IB Certification

Post by shadowjack »

While technically PsyGuy is correct about the availability og the IB documents, in reality they are posted over the internet left right and center, often on schools' own websites. I have had no trouble downloading documents that I wanted needed from non-OCC sources. Good luck - but DON'T spend your $$$ on training!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10849
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

The easiest source of "protected" IB documents is public/regulated school district curriculum sites that are required to post/make available their curriculum resources to the public.

IB certification makes financial sense in two cases: 1) If you have a lot of secondary (DIP) certifications, since an IB certificate meets all of the requirements for training. If you had 10 certifications or more an IB certificate starts becoming cost effective (at the minimum rate of 600 a workshop, the average is closer to 1000). 2) As an extension of number 1, if a school needs/wants a cheap IB/Academic/Curriculum coordinator. In MYP you only need one "trained" staff member per subject area offered. A certified teacher with lots of certifications and an IB certificate could meet all the MYP requirements school wide in just one person, saving a considerable amount in training.
Last edited by PsyGuy on Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
lookingforlefty
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:15 pm

Re: IB Certification

Post by lookingforlefty »

PsyGuy wrote:
> if a school needs/wants a cheap IB/Academic/Curriculum coordinator. In DIP you only
> need one "trained" staff member per subject area offered. A certified teacher with
> lots of certifications and an IB certificate could meet all the requirements school
> wide in just one person, saving a considerable amount in training

That's a brilliant observation. Is this true for all the IB certificates or just some? Would a "leadership certificate" provide any similar utility?
PsyGuy
Posts: 10849
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

Not so much observation as previous experience.

Recently the IB changed (February 2015) in that ALL DIP teachers need to be trained in their subject. MYP only requires one staff member in the subject offered to be trained. An IB Professional Certificate with a lot of certifications would meet the training requirements in all subjects. Permitting you to be a wild card in DIP and still meeting all the training requirements for MYP in one person.

The IBO only has two "Professional Teaching Certificates" the level 1 certificate "IB Certificate in Teaching and Learning" and the level 2 certificate "IB Advance Certificate in Teaching and Learning Research". The IB "Professional Leadership" certificates the level 1 "IB Certificate in Leadership Practice" and level 2 "IB Advance Certificate in Leadership Research" do not convey the same instructional training utility benefit. The leadership certificates meet the training requirements for coordinators and for the HOS as part of authorization. If you have one of the leadership certificates you essentially do not have to meet any other training requirements for any other administrative/management role (HOS, IB Coordinator, PYP, MYP, DIP coordinator). However, the admin/management requirements are pretty minor compared to the breadth of instructional training requirements. Administrators and Managers can obtain the Professional Teaching certificates as well.

The Leadership certificates are more useful to those who want to transition to "IBO Careers" early.
lookingforlefty
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:15 pm

Re: IB Certification

Post by lookingforlefty »

Why do you mean by "IBO Careers"? What are you referring to--working directly for the IBO or being a noob IB teacher? Can you explain further?

I teach social studies. Theoretically I could get certificates (probably through the USA) in all social studies, English, humanities, psychology, business areas, and I also have QTS by reciprocity as I believe you do, but that would hardly make me a "wild card" for ALL areas. I also don't teach MYP--I abhor middle school in general--although I suppose that doesn't matter for your scenario: the certificate would still help my school, were it to offer MYP.

I am a DP teacher at what you might consider a first- or second-tier IB school. I don't think I'd want to work for a school that's just going through authorisation unless I were admin. Speaking of which, I am considering some various pieces of paper that may help me move up in the rat race. Maybe I'll get a M.Ed. in leadership but everyone and their mom has one, hence my interest in this certificate. Ultimately, though, I doubt it's worth the hassle unless I happen to hit both birds with one stone (indeed quite doable).
PsyGuy
Posts: 10849
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

IB careers can be classified as two types, there is working "in" the IB at a region office directorate as say a curriculum manager. Then there are the careers working "with" the IB in the IBEN such as consultant (candidates school consultancy), authorization visit member/leader, workshop leader, readers, etc.. which all work for IB schools and perform these functions on a consultant type basis. The Professional Leadership certificates are a way for those who arent admins at an IB school to move into some of those roles.

MYP isnt "just middle school" its half of senior (high) school (MYP4/MYP5). Yes I received QTS by reciprocity, but I got a PGCE afterwards (which was complicated). I have over 30 certifications so my IB certificate allows me to meet the training requirements for all IB subjects (though I had to do the CAS, TOK and Coordinator workshops separately).

Young IB schools have some benefits. You get to set the track you could say. Its your input thats going into the foundation documents meaning you get to put in what you do and what you want instead of what someone did before you. I would not want to be an admin going through authorization, thats a lot of work, stress, and trying to make things work with duct tape and wire. Far better to be an admin at a school thats got 3-4 years before its next authorization, get a feel for the school, ownership, the community and the schools SOPs, then when those 3-4 years are up you can move on at the end of contract (admin contracts are generally a minimum of 3 years) and let someone else do the re authorization.

Everyone has an M.Ed in Ed.Ld for a reason, its valuable and it works and it typically either is or sets you up for an admin credential. All of the IB Professional Leadership programs are masters graduate degree programs or most of a masters degree program. Complete any of them which gives you a Masters degree, 2 years teaching experience, then pass the Praxis School Leaders Licensure Assessment (SLLA) and the District of Columbia will issue an Administrator (Principal/Assistant Principal) certificate. Thats three birds with one stone.
cattalus
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: IB Certification

Post by cattalus »

Thanks everyone for so much information, which naturally leads to more questions. I am also a social studies teacher an am state-licensed in all areas of social studies grades 5-12. If the IT route ends up happening for me and I work in an IB school, would I need to get IB certified in all the subjects that I would teach for that school? For instance, if I get a job teaching IB in history, would I need to pay the IBO some money to be official qualified? And then if I moved schools to teach IB Geography, would I need to get certified in that area as well? If so, how much would all that cost? Is it possible that the broad IB program from the University would cover all that? I think this was touched on before, just looking for some clarification.

I am trying to weigh the costs/benefits. I was contacted by a school before fair season for a social studies job and IB experience was a pre-requisite. I looked up substantial IB information online and I discovered that I already incorporate many of the IB practices in my teaching, but since I was unable to attend a fair and because I didn't have the experience, the school was only willing to schedule an interview if the position was open after the fair season, which it wasn't. This was slightly disappointing as I think I would have been a good match for the school. I came away feeling that if I just had the formal training I would have the chance to interview. The program is 10 credits, which would also move me over a lane on my school's salary schedule and I would get a raise of $3000. So in two years the program would roughly pay for itself and my credits would mean something as well, however insignificant.

The idea of $6,000 is concerning, especially if this school is abnormal or if I didn't have other requirements that they were looking for, but never mentioned to me. I am worried that this might be a fools errand and the formal certification would mean nothing without experience. Another route would be to get IB training from the IBO.
lookingforlefty
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:15 pm

Re: IB Certification

Post by lookingforlefty »

Psyguy, impressive of you to notice the DC admin cert. I wasn't aware that was widely known. I am starting to realise you know more than people might think.

I'm thinking of going straight to an Ed.D. even though I currently don't have a M.A. As you probably know there is at least one program that, with some expensive added requirements, allows this. It's a lot of extra work, but I'm a relatively junior teacher, so I will probably have to wait a while regardless: I'm not giving up much in opportunity cost by not having an admin credential immediately. Besides, that's way cheaper and easier than getting the M.A. and then the Ed.D. But if I try for the Ed.D., I won't be getting the IB certificate along the way, which as you say can come in handy.

My thinking was also, if I am to become admin, I need to have something prestigious about my education to impress clients. Right now I have nothing but a B.A. in one of the social sciences, and I didn't attend a top undergrad, so I have no prestige. Not sure if I'm improving much on that front with a M.A. in leadership from the HK Inst. of Ed. or some such. A lot of admins have their leadership M.A., but many other teachers have gotten the M.A. and never got a sniff at leadership. Maybe they didn't have the right hustle, but I feel like that degree isn't enough. I am prepared to move to an undesirable school or part of the world to get my first leadership post if necessary, but then if I am hoping my break will come with an external move, doesn't the degree play a bigger role?

My understanding is the basic requirements for workshop leader are 3 years teaching experience and a portfolio. Maybe there are some other things they look at, like results. I really don't know. I'm an examiner and have experience in two DP subjects plus TOK if that makes any difference. I think the qualifications for the visiting team are more rigorous, like having been IB coordinator. I've never read that the IB leadership cert would be a factor in leapfrogging some of the requirements for these. Maybe I should research it more.
lookingforlefty
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:15 pm

Re: IB Certification

Post by lookingforlefty »

cattalus wrote:
> I was contacted by a school before fair season for a social studies job and IB experience was a
> pre-requisite. I looked up substantial IB information online and I
> discovered that I already incorporate many of the IB practices in my
> teaching, but since I was unable to attend a fair and because I didn't have
> the experience, the school was only willing to schedule an interview if the
> position was open after the fair season, which it wasn't.

I'm inclined to think that training =/= experience, but then as someone with IB experience I'd want to think that, wouldn't I?

If you already have IB experience in a subject, and want to add another subject or role, additional IB training in the role you aspire to could be useful. I have not been around long enough to know if it actually works this way.
vandsmith
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:16 am

Re: IB Certification

Post by vandsmith »

i mean, i think this has been answered but in my opinion, it'd be better to go to a school that offers IB - even if it isn't the school that you originally wanted - and get some IB training and experience through your contract. the training is good but experience counts for soooo much more. IB schools actually have to send you to train if you don't have it. 3-4 years teaching IB is decent and can get you into many decent schools! just be forewarned that history/geography is relatively common!

good luck.

v.
Post Reply