If you are with Search, please help me out... When are you supposed to click on that button that says, "I am no longer available"? I've accepted a position from a school to which I applied through Search, but I'm not sure now is the right time to deactivate my account.
I am asking this question because I have not received an official contract from the school yet... I've sent in my signed letter of intent and am in the process of submitting all required documents. I am a little confused because my Search advisor has stopped responding to my emails, and I really don't know what to do. Should I just leave my profile be until I hear from my advisor, or at least until I receive my contract?
Your input will be most appreciated!
After you've secured a position through Search...
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
Hit the button. You've had an offer, and given your acceptance. By Search's terms, you're no longer available, and you could even find the school can legitimately back out of their offer on the grounds that you're still marketing yourself.
There is often a delay in receiving contracts. Give it a little time.
If the worst really happens, you can reactivate with Search later, making sure they are fully apprised of the malfeasance on the part of the school.
There is often a delay in receiving contracts. Give it a little time.
If the worst really happens, you can reactivate with Search later, making sure they are fully apprised of the malfeasance on the part of the school.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
Unless you have done something as major as gross negligence towards the school (highly improbable), then Search will just allow you to re-activate (should be at no cost - but I'm not promising) and use the database as per normal.
It is however tempting to wait a week or so to see what else comes up out of curiosity - but it's not however encouraged....
It is however tempting to wait a week or so to see what else comes up out of curiosity - but it's not however encouraged....
Reponse
Dont hit the button until you have a contract. Your not hired until you have a contract. Verbal assurances and agreements mean nothing, only written contracts matter. You could be getting played by the school, you agree to an offer and then they give you excuses about how long written contracts take because some office or ministry or the person who has the seal ran out of ink, and its going to take awhile. Then a month or a couple weeks later your offer is withdrawn, with some generic reason.
Any school thats worth your trust will simply provide you the contract quickly because they dont want to lose you and they value your place in their organization. With that assumption you shouldnt have to wait long and an extra week or couple of days "active" wont make any difference. Everyone, both the school and agency know that a properly executed contract is the standard an instrument by which the obligations of the parties is established.
Schools dont need a reason to withdraw an offer. They can just do it, and the agency will not help you. They will sympathize with you and reactivate your profile, and maybe your rep will contact the school, but the agencies work for the schools not you, the schools are the ones agencies make their money from, they are the client.
Its likely your associate stopped contacting you because of fair activity, some personal crises, or very likely that the school already notified your associate they have hired you, and there is no reason to really get back with you. The associate will invoice the school, and thats it as far as Search is concerned.
A number of people get hired outside the agency with unconnected schools and keep their profiles and access active, even renewing despite not being available. The lower tier schools will even suggest not notifying the agency so that they dont have to pay.
Any school thats worth your trust will simply provide you the contract quickly because they dont want to lose you and they value your place in their organization. With that assumption you shouldnt have to wait long and an extra week or couple of days "active" wont make any difference. Everyone, both the school and agency know that a properly executed contract is the standard an instrument by which the obligations of the parties is established.
Schools dont need a reason to withdraw an offer. They can just do it, and the agency will not help you. They will sympathize with you and reactivate your profile, and maybe your rep will contact the school, but the agencies work for the schools not you, the schools are the ones agencies make their money from, they are the client.
Its likely your associate stopped contacting you because of fair activity, some personal crises, or very likely that the school already notified your associate they have hired you, and there is no reason to really get back with you. The associate will invoice the school, and thats it as far as Search is concerned.
A number of people get hired outside the agency with unconnected schools and keep their profiles and access active, even renewing despite not being available. The lower tier schools will even suggest not notifying the agency so that they dont have to pay.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
I believe Search asks you to deactivate within a week or so? I remember having an email from my associate asking me/reminding me to deactivate. However, I had also signed a contract at a fair.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
@psyguy, i'm not picking a fight with you but we signed a binding Intent to Hire, and our school sends out contracts to all new hires at the same time (so, after all hiring is done) and not piecemeal. Since we were hired very early, this meant waiting for contracts. There is nothing sketchy at all about this from a reputable school - HR just doesn't write up new contracts one at a time. Same with the enrollment papers for our kid, handbooks, etc. We are a cohort of new hires and it is efficient to manage us as such instead of one at a time. Search deactivated us based on these letters of intent, and we are - in fact - hired. The document signed by our Head says so and Search agrees.
Discussion
@UnCloudy
HR could write up the contracts one at a time if they were directed to do so, an admin that declines not too doesnt value its new hires, and likely has an indifferent approach too its staff. Yes it is its very sketchy. Your policy to do all contracts at one time after hiring is arbitrary. There is no rule, regulation (a few exceptions), that mandates you do them all at one time. Its a choice your school decided on, and probably doesnt have any substantial rational for. Letters of intent mean nothing, their is nothing binding about them, if they were binding they would be called contracts, and no court, or agency or recruiter is going to help or be able to do anything over a broken withdrawn or rescinded letter of intent.
It would be a different issue if there was a system of protections in place, but there isnt (schools pay the recruiters and they arent going to alienate a client over a broken letter of intent or contract), and the bad schools take advantage of the couple of good schools that really do have the right intentions. Schools are businesses, and they can choose not only how the conduct their fairs but are choosing how they conduct business reflects on their values. You are requiring that a candidate who really knows nothing about you, and has little evidence to trust you, too trust you because you say your a reputable school, reputation isnt a reflection of your claims but your actions.
Your school sounds lazy.
The word of a HOS whether written or verbal can be changed and means nothing. Search can agree all it wants, whats are they going to do if they change their mind, nothing other then reactivate your profile. Do you really expect them to disagree, what would be in it for them. They arent going to be the ones with a problem if the school withdraws or rescinds the letter of intent or the contract.
HR could write up the contracts one at a time if they were directed to do so, an admin that declines not too doesnt value its new hires, and likely has an indifferent approach too its staff. Yes it is its very sketchy. Your policy to do all contracts at one time after hiring is arbitrary. There is no rule, regulation (a few exceptions), that mandates you do them all at one time. Its a choice your school decided on, and probably doesnt have any substantial rational for. Letters of intent mean nothing, their is nothing binding about them, if they were binding they would be called contracts, and no court, or agency or recruiter is going to help or be able to do anything over a broken withdrawn or rescinded letter of intent.
It would be a different issue if there was a system of protections in place, but there isnt (schools pay the recruiters and they arent going to alienate a client over a broken letter of intent or contract), and the bad schools take advantage of the couple of good schools that really do have the right intentions. Schools are businesses, and they can choose not only how the conduct their fairs but are choosing how they conduct business reflects on their values. You are requiring that a candidate who really knows nothing about you, and has little evidence to trust you, too trust you because you say your a reputable school, reputation isnt a reflection of your claims but your actions.
Your school sounds lazy.
The word of a HOS whether written or verbal can be changed and means nothing. Search can agree all it wants, whats are they going to do if they change their mind, nothing other then reactivate your profile. Do you really expect them to disagree, what would be in it for them. They arent going to be the ones with a problem if the school withdraws or rescinds the letter of intent or the contract.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
but but but
You have far more experience than we do...but we received our tickets immediately, visa instructions and help, information on everything we asked for and more. I just don't see where they have let us down in any way, and I definitely feel valued.
You have far more experience than we do...but we received our tickets immediately, visa instructions and help, information on everything we asked for and more. I just don't see where they have let us down in any way, and I definitely feel valued.
Reply
@UnCloudy
So they gave you paper?
Go to your desk or printer and take a piece of paper out of it. No tear it in half from the top down. Look at it, do you think if there was any type on it that said "Letter of Intent" or "Letter of Understanding" it wouldnt have torn?
Tickets, they gave you flight tickets or they already bought flight tickets for you? I dont think so. Do you mean they signed your contract agreement ticket at the fair. Thats paper, see demonstration above.
Visa information, did they give you funds for a visa application, did they agree to do the processing and submit your visa applications and cover the cost, or did they give you some instructions on how YOU apply for, pay for, and obtain a visa? Theyre just going to give you an invitation letter to submit with the application. Thats more paper.
Help, Information? What did they give you but paper and words? They havent let you down because they havent given you anything of value.
If they dont follow through on the contract, or they rescind and withdraw the offer, they wont be out anything. It will be your money that paid for the visa, likely your money that paid for the tickets (probably), you paid for the criminal background check, transcripts, apostiles, immunizations, prescriptions, etc. Your the one that will be without a job, not the school. Your associate will just apologize, sympathize, and reactivate your profile, but your not going to get anything except more job searching later in the year.
You dont feel valued, you feel relieved the job search is over. Youve reduced your stress and anxiety, and your misinterpreting that. You cant feel valued, because you havent received anything to value.
How is any of that binding, is their an "International Education Center for Arbitration and Dispute Resolution" that you can go to and plead your case and turn that letter of intent/agreement into paper that actually does have value like money? Even if you have a contract, and they withdraw or rescind the contract (ITs "break" contract, ISs "withdraw" contracts), what are you going to do, file suit against them in a foreign country or sue them locally. Are you going to call your congressman or MP? Write a strongly worded letter to their ministry of education or labor, talk to your union or agency? Do you think you have any recourse that will produce any useful outcome at all?
So they gave you paper?
Go to your desk or printer and take a piece of paper out of it. No tear it in half from the top down. Look at it, do you think if there was any type on it that said "Letter of Intent" or "Letter of Understanding" it wouldnt have torn?
Tickets, they gave you flight tickets or they already bought flight tickets for you? I dont think so. Do you mean they signed your contract agreement ticket at the fair. Thats paper, see demonstration above.
Visa information, did they give you funds for a visa application, did they agree to do the processing and submit your visa applications and cover the cost, or did they give you some instructions on how YOU apply for, pay for, and obtain a visa? Theyre just going to give you an invitation letter to submit with the application. Thats more paper.
Help, Information? What did they give you but paper and words? They havent let you down because they havent given you anything of value.
If they dont follow through on the contract, or they rescind and withdraw the offer, they wont be out anything. It will be your money that paid for the visa, likely your money that paid for the tickets (probably), you paid for the criminal background check, transcripts, apostiles, immunizations, prescriptions, etc. Your the one that will be without a job, not the school. Your associate will just apologize, sympathize, and reactivate your profile, but your not going to get anything except more job searching later in the year.
You dont feel valued, you feel relieved the job search is over. Youve reduced your stress and anxiety, and your misinterpreting that. You cant feel valued, because you havent received anything to value.
How is any of that binding, is their an "International Education Center for Arbitration and Dispute Resolution" that you can go to and plead your case and turn that letter of intent/agreement into paper that actually does have value like money? Even if you have a contract, and they withdraw or rescind the contract (ITs "break" contract, ISs "withdraw" contracts), what are you going to do, file suit against them in a foreign country or sue them locally. Are you going to call your congressman or MP? Write a strongly worded letter to their ministry of education or labor, talk to your union or agency? Do you think you have any recourse that will produce any useful outcome at all?
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
They bought us $6k in round trip flights and are completely taking care of the visas and paid for the sending of the documentation. I don't think what you are saying applies to this school at all. Maybe most, I can see that. But it is not the experience we are having.
Discussion
@UnCloudy
You have these tickets in your possession?
So they cant complete contracts as they happen, because they only do them once, but HR can make travel arrangements individually as they do happen (since everyone likely has different departures and flight time tables), and they did all of this for I assume an August departure 6 months away?
You gave them your passports and their taking care of the whole thing, or did they pay postage/shipping to send you documents?
I find this scenario "difficult" to assimilate into my understanding of the IE general form of organizational practice.
You have these tickets in your possession?
So they cant complete contracts as they happen, because they only do them once, but HR can make travel arrangements individually as they do happen (since everyone likely has different departures and flight time tables), and they did all of this for I assume an August departure 6 months away?
You gave them your passports and their taking care of the whole thing, or did they pay postage/shipping to send you documents?
I find this scenario "difficult" to assimilate into my understanding of the IE general form of organizational practice.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
Yes, the tickets are in our possession. We have to go in person to the local embassy after approval, so we have our physical passports but they have copies and everything else, are paying for and taking care of the entire visa process, and are paying for the visa run to the embassy.
Discussion
@UnCloudy
Is this for an August reporting?
Are these real tickets, as in youve verified them with the airline? Theyre tickets not a reservation, or an itinerary?
It doesnt fit with the general form of practice. If this is an August report and start, there no reason to do a visa run, even JP would be able to get you a COE in 6 months. There would be no reason to go through the greater expense of a visa run when you ahve time to use standard application channels. The travel arrangements still make no sense, Contracts arent drafted in full for each hire. They use a template insert some names and compensation data, and dates. It gets signed and sealed, and delivered. Its 15 minutes and thats if you have to wait/find the seal/chop. Travel plans take considerably more time than that, and absence of a signed contract thats a huge investment for a school to put out for at a stage thats not legally binding. Schools can be slimy but so can teachers. Schools use the standard of the contract before they green light that its okay to spend money, and they do so sparingly, since a recruiter/admins biggest fear after recruitment and before reporting is that the hire wont get on the plane.
Is this for an August reporting?
Are these real tickets, as in youve verified them with the airline? Theyre tickets not a reservation, or an itinerary?
It doesnt fit with the general form of practice. If this is an August report and start, there no reason to do a visa run, even JP would be able to get you a COE in 6 months. There would be no reason to go through the greater expense of a visa run when you ahve time to use standard application channels. The travel arrangements still make no sense, Contracts arent drafted in full for each hire. They use a template insert some names and compensation data, and dates. It gets signed and sealed, and delivered. Its 15 minutes and thats if you have to wait/find the seal/chop. Travel plans take considerably more time than that, and absence of a signed contract thats a huge investment for a school to put out for at a stage thats not legally binding. Schools can be slimy but so can teachers. Schools use the standard of the contract before they green light that its okay to spend money, and they do so sparingly, since a recruiter/admins biggest fear after recruitment and before reporting is that the hire wont get on the plane.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
Well then I guess our new jobs make no sense. I don't know what else to say, maybe we are screwed. And yes. I have actual paid american airlines tickets in my possession. I probably didn't explain the visa part right because it is my first time out. I don't know.