Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
I came to China to teach English with my boyfriend at a small private school in a small city. The job ad said the city was clean, and we didn't find anything online that suggested otherwise, but when we got here we realized the pollution is really bad, and that by "clean," they meant cleaner than Beijing.
Along with the pollution, I've had a lot of other problems while in China, both health-wise and mentally. I've been to the hospital 3 times for heart, lung, stomach/bowel, knee, throat, and neck problems. I've never had so many health issues in my life. Can they really all be stress-related? Knee pain from stress?
Anyway, I'm not sure what is causing what, but I've also developed frequent panic attacks, insomnia, and hypochondria (even though some of the health issues are definitely not in my head, which makes the hypochondria even worse...)
I feel like I'm losing my mind. I've never had these problems before. All of these things make my life really miserable here and I'm depressed every day. I wake up incredibly sad and nothing matters enough to me here to make me feel any better. The only time I feel good is when I'm sleeping or drunk, and when I took a vacation to Japan.
I've been here 6 months now and am not seeing any sign of these things subsiding. My contract doesn't end for another six months and being here is really just not worth the toll it's taking on my health. I don't want to screw over my school by leaving, but they don't really seem to care that I'm miserable and going insane. And I don't think they understand, but they also seem to be making efforts NOT to understand, because understanding would give them a reason to let me leave, which would make them lose money, which is the most important thing to them. When they asked me why I wanted to leave, I told them all the above reasons, and why I'm depressed and that I've never had insomnia or hypochondria or panic attacks before, let alone so many health issues. They interrupted my explanation of these things to tell me that if my lungs hurt, it's probably because my apartment is dirty (they came over unannounced after a . we had for other ex-pats and were still cleaning), so the bacteria in the air is what causes my lung problems, not the pollution. Yeah right. And they said I could be lying about never having had these problems before, so they can't take that as a valid reason. So basically they asked my why I wanted to leave, I gave them a bunch of reasons that weren't criticisms of them or their school, and they interrupted me and criticized me for being a slob and a liar. Okay.
I'm trying to weigh my options. If they don't find new teachers within the next month or two (which they say they're trying to do, but I struggle to believe anything they say considering how evasive and deceptive they are sometimes), I'm inclined to just book a flight and get to the US before they know what happened. The breach penalty for my contract is between $800 USD and $8000. It seems unreasonable to make me pay $8000, which is twice what I've even been able to save, to a school who cares so little about my health. What would happen if I paid nothing, or the minimum breach penalty, and just left?
Would they be able to sue me internationally? They seem to think that they would.
My health is more important than money, and I need to get out of here. What can I do without screwing myself over?
"Get over it and deal" comments are unnecessary and will be ignored :)
Thank you!
Along with the pollution, I've had a lot of other problems while in China, both health-wise and mentally. I've been to the hospital 3 times for heart, lung, stomach/bowel, knee, throat, and neck problems. I've never had so many health issues in my life. Can they really all be stress-related? Knee pain from stress?
Anyway, I'm not sure what is causing what, but I've also developed frequent panic attacks, insomnia, and hypochondria (even though some of the health issues are definitely not in my head, which makes the hypochondria even worse...)
I feel like I'm losing my mind. I've never had these problems before. All of these things make my life really miserable here and I'm depressed every day. I wake up incredibly sad and nothing matters enough to me here to make me feel any better. The only time I feel good is when I'm sleeping or drunk, and when I took a vacation to Japan.
I've been here 6 months now and am not seeing any sign of these things subsiding. My contract doesn't end for another six months and being here is really just not worth the toll it's taking on my health. I don't want to screw over my school by leaving, but they don't really seem to care that I'm miserable and going insane. And I don't think they understand, but they also seem to be making efforts NOT to understand, because understanding would give them a reason to let me leave, which would make them lose money, which is the most important thing to them. When they asked me why I wanted to leave, I told them all the above reasons, and why I'm depressed and that I've never had insomnia or hypochondria or panic attacks before, let alone so many health issues. They interrupted my explanation of these things to tell me that if my lungs hurt, it's probably because my apartment is dirty (they came over unannounced after a . we had for other ex-pats and were still cleaning), so the bacteria in the air is what causes my lung problems, not the pollution. Yeah right. And they said I could be lying about never having had these problems before, so they can't take that as a valid reason. So basically they asked my why I wanted to leave, I gave them a bunch of reasons that weren't criticisms of them or their school, and they interrupted me and criticized me for being a slob and a liar. Okay.
I'm trying to weigh my options. If they don't find new teachers within the next month or two (which they say they're trying to do, but I struggle to believe anything they say considering how evasive and deceptive they are sometimes), I'm inclined to just book a flight and get to the US before they know what happened. The breach penalty for my contract is between $800 USD and $8000. It seems unreasonable to make me pay $8000, which is twice what I've even been able to save, to a school who cares so little about my health. What would happen if I paid nothing, or the minimum breach penalty, and just left?
Would they be able to sue me internationally? They seem to think that they would.
My health is more important than money, and I need to get out of here. What can I do without screwing myself over?
"Get over it and deal" comments are unnecessary and will be ignored :)
Thank you!
Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
Is this even an international school, or just a private Chinese school?
If you're that miserable and it's not a legitimate international school, just walk away. You wouldn't be the first TEFL teacher to do so. No, they will not be able to sue you internationally. Obviously you won't be able to use them as a reference, but that's something that can be dealt with further down the line.
If you're that miserable and it's not a legitimate international school, just walk away. You wouldn't be the first TEFL teacher to do so. No, they will not be able to sue you internationally. Obviously you won't be able to use them as a reference, but that's something that can be dealt with further down the line.
Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
IMO, you can pull a runner without worrying about legal consequences. But, there will be consequences.
Regarding your health, did you take a course of antibiotics at some point? I know it sounds crazy, but science is starting to link gut bacteria flora to all kinds of conditions, including anxiety disorders and our response to stressors. Destroying your gut bacteria with antibiotics, and subsequently not working deliberately to reestablish a healthy symbiotic colony, can set you up for a variety of issues. I HIGHLY recommend you do some research on this. You'll almost certainly want to add/increase your probiotic (through supplements or lacto-fermenting your own food) and prebiotic intake (google key word: resistant starch). I'm about 100% certain that a few weeks of concerted effort will lead to noticeable improvement.
Here's something to get you started: http://neurosciencestuff.tumblr.com/pos ... cond-brain
Regarding your health, did you take a course of antibiotics at some point? I know it sounds crazy, but science is starting to link gut bacteria flora to all kinds of conditions, including anxiety disorders and our response to stressors. Destroying your gut bacteria with antibiotics, and subsequently not working deliberately to reestablish a healthy symbiotic colony, can set you up for a variety of issues. I HIGHLY recommend you do some research on this. You'll almost certainly want to add/increase your probiotic (through supplements or lacto-fermenting your own food) and prebiotic intake (google key word: resistant starch). I'm about 100% certain that a few weeks of concerted effort will lead to noticeable improvement.
Here's something to get you started: http://neurosciencestuff.tumblr.com/pos ... cond-brain
Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
marieh wrote:
> Is this even an international school, or just a private Chinese school?
>
> If you're that miserable and it's not a legitimate international school,
> just walk away. You wouldn't be the first TEFL teacher to do so. No, they
> will not be able to sue you internationally. Obviously you won't be able to
> use them as a reference, but that's something that can be dealt with
> further down the line.
No, it's not an international school, just a private one. I don't really care about the reference because I have other good references from teaching. They seem to think they will be able to sue me unless I pay the maximum breach penalty, which is $8K, and which I don't want to pay. I'll pay the minimum, 800, but they will consider that illegal since they get to set the penalty, and want the maximum. Have any other teachers broken contract without paying the breach penalty, and gone home with no consequences?
> Is this even an international school, or just a private Chinese school?
>
> If you're that miserable and it's not a legitimate international school,
> just walk away. You wouldn't be the first TEFL teacher to do so. No, they
> will not be able to sue you internationally. Obviously you won't be able to
> use them as a reference, but that's something that can be dealt with
> further down the line.
No, it's not an international school, just a private one. I don't really care about the reference because I have other good references from teaching. They seem to think they will be able to sue me unless I pay the maximum breach penalty, which is $8K, and which I don't want to pay. I'll pay the minimum, 800, but they will consider that illegal since they get to set the penalty, and want the maximum. Have any other teachers broken contract without paying the breach penalty, and gone home with no consequences?
Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
Breach penalty is a scare tactic that schools use in order to force people to finish out their contracts. Book a ticket home, do not tell your school, and just leave. I repeat - they are just trying to scare you into paying or staying. There is absolutely nothing they can do financially to you once you are gone. As jayhawk said, there may be consequences, but if you're not planning to work in China (specifically that province) again they shouldn't affect you.
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Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
Yeah, there won't be a way for them to sue you. Other schools in the future will want to know why you left if it's apparent you were at a school and you didn't finish your contract, but it won't necessarily keep you from getting job offers. Explaining the situation to schools may be helpful and it may not be.
One thing, if you money is in a Chinese bank account you may have trouble getting it back to the US via transfer without the school's support. That doesn't mean you couldn't just withdraw it all and convert in on the black market or take it exchange it overseas.
One thing, if you money is in a Chinese bank account you may have trouble getting it back to the US via transfer without the school's support. That doesn't mean you couldn't just withdraw it all and convert in on the black market or take it exchange it overseas.
Response
Breach penalties mean nothing, they really are just a scare tactic. To prevail in a Chinese court your school would have to prove that your breach of contract resulted in damages and that the school attempted to mitigate those damages, which would then be limited by the breach penalty, thats all breach penalties really are, is notice what the damages could be if legal action was pursued.
Unless you intend to stay in China nothing will happen, they could go to Peoples Inferior Court and get an administrative judgement against you (these are administrative hearings where one group makes their case and based on documentation gets a summary judgment against you, but these judgments are subject to immediate appeal, and petition for a full hearing and trial, its really just the equivalent of filing a suite), but they cant enforce that anywhere outside China, and they wouldnt even do so. They could hire representation and file suite to sue you in the states but they wouldnt based on the cost.
You dont have to pay them anything, Im relatively sure your school has it set up so that one month or a portion of one months salary is actually held back, so if you leave after your pay period (cash in hand) the held back amount they will just keep, and justify it as your breach penalty. Thats really why schools have breach penalty clauses, so that if you leave they dont have to pay you anything more than your last pay distribution, they can just offset everything else against the breach penalty.
Aside from financial considerations you wont be able to get a reference, but I dont see why you cant list the experience (its a dumpy english school, everyone knows about those places). Your visa and work permit belongs to the school, BUT to cancel it they need you to give them your passport otherwise its just yours. PSB will not cancel a work permit/experts license without the passport, and doing so administratively will cost the school money that they arent going to get back, and takes a significant amount of time. Unfortunately your experts license is probably with the school and of course they wont give it to you, but its not a big deal.
Lots of people pull runners in the TESOL business, the MOE/MOL in China only adds teachers to the "UnQualified List" when there is something criminal at issue such as theft, fraud, inappropriate behavior, etc., so getting a new job wont be difficult.
You do have some other options, while your visa belongs to the school, you are in a very good place to find a better job in a new location. If you get back to the states what are you going to do then? Work retail/fast food, do you have a teaching job lined up. You are already in country and a lot closer to neighboring areas, why fly back to the states now. Take the money, leave, spend some time on R&R (somewhere else) and look for another job, you will get scooped up by someone in China pretty quickly, and you may consider another nearby country.
Lastly, the vast majority of TESOL (and IT) teachers are only happy when they are drunk or socializing.
Unless you intend to stay in China nothing will happen, they could go to Peoples Inferior Court and get an administrative judgement against you (these are administrative hearings where one group makes their case and based on documentation gets a summary judgment against you, but these judgments are subject to immediate appeal, and petition for a full hearing and trial, its really just the equivalent of filing a suite), but they cant enforce that anywhere outside China, and they wouldnt even do so. They could hire representation and file suite to sue you in the states but they wouldnt based on the cost.
You dont have to pay them anything, Im relatively sure your school has it set up so that one month or a portion of one months salary is actually held back, so if you leave after your pay period (cash in hand) the held back amount they will just keep, and justify it as your breach penalty. Thats really why schools have breach penalty clauses, so that if you leave they dont have to pay you anything more than your last pay distribution, they can just offset everything else against the breach penalty.
Aside from financial considerations you wont be able to get a reference, but I dont see why you cant list the experience (its a dumpy english school, everyone knows about those places). Your visa and work permit belongs to the school, BUT to cancel it they need you to give them your passport otherwise its just yours. PSB will not cancel a work permit/experts license without the passport, and doing so administratively will cost the school money that they arent going to get back, and takes a significant amount of time. Unfortunately your experts license is probably with the school and of course they wont give it to you, but its not a big deal.
Lots of people pull runners in the TESOL business, the MOE/MOL in China only adds teachers to the "UnQualified List" when there is something criminal at issue such as theft, fraud, inappropriate behavior, etc., so getting a new job wont be difficult.
You do have some other options, while your visa belongs to the school, you are in a very good place to find a better job in a new location. If you get back to the states what are you going to do then? Work retail/fast food, do you have a teaching job lined up. You are already in country and a lot closer to neighboring areas, why fly back to the states now. Take the money, leave, spend some time on R&R (somewhere else) and look for another job, you will get scooped up by someone in China pretty quickly, and you may consider another nearby country.
Lastly, the vast majority of TESOL (and IT) teachers are only happy when they are drunk or socializing.
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Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
Balloona just offered me a job at her school. Sounds like a keeper!
Where do I sign?!?
Where do I sign?!?
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Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
ESL teachers I've known who have done this call it a "midnight runner." They tell no one but one a trusted friend. They do it right after a paycheck has been given to them. They have their bags packed and ready to go, a ticket bought, and they leave after they've cleared their money out of the bank. They leave any keys and an apology note under the door in an envelope at the school late at night, after everyone's gone home. They turn off their cell phone, get an late night/early morning flight head to the airport, and go through security.
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Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
They can't do nothing to you!!! I've done this before. I continued to live And work in China for many years after. Go! Go! Go!
Discussion
A common misconception is that if you break contract or pull a runner in China, that you have to then leave China, which is untrue.
Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
Labour Contract Law (2008) states that you only need give one month's notice. Please do not listen to these people telling you to do a midnight run. You do not need to pay this separation fee even though you signed a contract saying you would because it is illegal.
Though China abandoned Marxism long ago, there is still something of a spirit of fairness for workers in its present law.
If you need any help please PM me.
Though China abandoned Marxism long ago, there is still something of a spirit of fairness for workers in its present law.
If you need any help please PM me.
Discussion
That is extremely bad advise. Labor law means nothing to you as a foreigner.
Illegal or not you will spend a couple years fighting them in court, can you afford to do so, can you afford an attorney, do you have a job lined up locally, do you have the money to self support an administrative visa?
If you give them 30 days, you will essentially end up working for nothing those 30 days. The school will keep your salary and claim to offset it against the breach penalty. They will also require you to give them your passport, and they will cancel your visa/work permit at the conclusion of the 30 days. If you refuse they could fire you immediately and claim any number of offenses or crimes (both minor or major). You likely live in a small town/city and the school has better contacts and resources than you do, which means they have all the power and you have none.
Illegal or not you will spend a couple years fighting them in court, can you afford to do so, can you afford an attorney, do you have a job lined up locally, do you have the money to self support an administrative visa?
If you give them 30 days, you will essentially end up working for nothing those 30 days. The school will keep your salary and claim to offset it against the breach penalty. They will also require you to give them your passport, and they will cancel your visa/work permit at the conclusion of the 30 days. If you refuse they could fire you immediately and claim any number of offenses or crimes (both minor or major). You likely live in a small town/city and the school has better contacts and resources than you do, which means they have all the power and you have none.
Re: Legality of breaking contract in China... help?
PsyGuy says
"Your visa and work permit belongs to the school, BUT to cancel it they need you to give them your passport otherwise its just yours. PSB will not cancel a work permit/experts license without the passport, and doing so administratively will cost the school money that they arent going to get back, and takes a significant amount of time. Unfortunately your experts license is probably with the school and of course they wont give it to you, but its not a big deal."
If you do a runner there is nothing the school can do except cancel your work visa. DO NOT take PsyGuy's advice that they cannot cancel your work visa without your passport because they can. It happened to my colleague as he went to a neighboring school and acted like he did a runner thinking that way the school wouldn't bother cancelling his visa. (He did this on the advice of the other school.) When the new school went to try and get another work visa he discovered his previous visa had been cancelled an he ended up having to leave the country and pay a fine, plus he was in jail for two days. He said all in all jail wasn't what the locals would be put in and he was treated well but is still probably not a place where you would want to stay for any length of time. All this however did not keep him from returning to China as he was back after 2 months and kept on working for the other school he had left to go to.
If you look at posts you will see PsyGuy thinks he knows everything and always needs the last word. While he has some good insights and the like on certain things, however he doesn't hesitate to give incorrect information for the sake of having himself seen as knowledgeable.
"Your visa and work permit belongs to the school, BUT to cancel it they need you to give them your passport otherwise its just yours. PSB will not cancel a work permit/experts license without the passport, and doing so administratively will cost the school money that they arent going to get back, and takes a significant amount of time. Unfortunately your experts license is probably with the school and of course they wont give it to you, but its not a big deal."
If you do a runner there is nothing the school can do except cancel your work visa. DO NOT take PsyGuy's advice that they cannot cancel your work visa without your passport because they can. It happened to my colleague as he went to a neighboring school and acted like he did a runner thinking that way the school wouldn't bother cancelling his visa. (He did this on the advice of the other school.) When the new school went to try and get another work visa he discovered his previous visa had been cancelled an he ended up having to leave the country and pay a fine, plus he was in jail for two days. He said all in all jail wasn't what the locals would be put in and he was treated well but is still probably not a place where you would want to stay for any length of time. All this however did not keep him from returning to China as he was back after 2 months and kept on working for the other school he had left to go to.
If you look at posts you will see PsyGuy thinks he knows everything and always needs the last word. While he has some good insights and the like on certain things, however he doesn't hesitate to give incorrect information for the sake of having himself seen as knowledgeable.
Last edited by Micky on Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.