Tis the season: Fair diaries!

[senator]

@Psyguy

Sorry, Psyguy. Living overseas is no longer such a benefit. Travel is the biggest lie. We both know that A LOT of a teacher's time is spent either working school related tasks or doing living related stuff. I actually have MORE time to travel now than when I was an IT.

And today too many international schools are located in lousy places with pollution, crazy trafic, etc. And those that aren't don't pay well.

I get up and breathe clean air, eat good food that is healthy - No McDonald's or Coke - make good money, do a service for often disadvantaged kids, volunteer at community organizations, still have a lot of time to make the world a better place. I don't slave away to make some dummy of a headmaster look good so he can move on to another useless position.

There are so few really good international posts today.

And just because McDonald's and Coke are successful getting the sheep to destroy themselves with disease and misery, does not mean that their methods are right.

And looking for a good fit is just another way of being elitist - or racist. Why do you think that a lot of schools want a photo with a resume. Hint: it's not really to match a name with a face.

So good luck to all who still are willing to jump through the hoops of lesser men and women.

[wrldtrvlr123]

senator wrote:
> @Psyguy
>
> Sorry, Psyguy. Living overseas is no longer such a benefit. Travel is the biggest
> lie. We both know that A LOT of a teacher's time is spent either working school
> related tasks or doing living related stuff. I actually have MORE time to travel
> now than when I was an IT.
>
> And today too many international schools are located in lousy places with pollution,
> crazy trafic, etc. And those that aren't don't pay well.
>
> I get up and breathe clean air, eat good food that is healthy - No McDonald's or
> Coke - make good money, do a service for often disadvantaged kids, volunteer at
> community organizations, still have a lot of time to make the world a better place.
> I don't slave away to make some dummy of a headmaster look good so he can move on
> to another useless position.
>
> There are so few really good international posts today.
>
> And just because McDonald's and Coke are successful getting the sheep to destroy
> themselves with disease and misery, does not mean that their methods are right.
>
>
> And looking for a good fit is just another way of being elitist - or racist. Why
> do you think that a lot of schools want a photo with a resume. Hint: it's not really
> to match a name with a face.
>
> So good luck to all who still are willing to jump through the hoops of lesser men
> and women.
-----------------------------------
So basically you don't do it or like it anymore so it must suck? I'm happy that you are happier now but many us still enjoy living overseas and find it rewarding on many levels.

[Amnesiac]

Yeah, I don't buy this notion that international school teaching is a superficial, capitalistic sham. There are good and bad schools and admins in US public schools, much like there are internationally. Neither venue is perfect, but the potential for pay and saving in ITs is significantly higher than it is in the States, which allows you to go and travel anywhere in the world without having to pinch pennies. That isn't possible teaching in the States. Not without a joint income.

It's all a matter of perspective and priorities. I loved my last school in the States, but where I lived it was the exception and not the rule. My other schools were incredibly dysfunctional and teacher morale was very low. Teacher morale in general was very low in my State, as it is in many States. I would assume that teacher morale is significantly higher for IT. Doesn't mean there aren't difficult or dysfunctional posts, but at least in many of those cases the pay makes up for it.

Kudos to anyone who carves out a comfortable life anywhere in the world, but one person's reality doesn't necessarily reflect that of everyone else's, especially within a country as large as the States.

[Cheery Littlebottom]

I believe there is still a lot of mileage in teaching at international schools. There are some great schools back home in the US and UK. To make sure our kids got into a good one in the UK we'd have to live in a circumscribed postal area or pay a ton to go private. In the USA there are also some really highly rated schools where we own property, but frankly I don't want my kids to be educated in a system that is frequently saturated with christian religious nonsense. Right now they are being educated in a pretty optimal environment as far as I can see.
We just had a spectacular holiday, mainly visiting friends we have met from our work around the world, and we have money in the bank. There have been tough times, but it's always been worth it, and we've never considered throwing in the towel.
I really ache for folks who have been shafted by shitty admins or who have other really bad experiences.

[senator]

WOW!

Did I touch a nerve, there, guys?

If you really believed what you wrote, you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so strenuously.

Yet one more reason I left the world of international education: colleagues who are never wrong!

[Amnesiac]

I'd say the fact that you are in the minority really says more than anything. Nobody here is being sensitive. We're just trying to inform readers. If someone gives an out-of-date, biased, or misinformed opinion of a school, they are corrected. Same here. Information is important. That's why this forum exists.

[Cheery Littlebottom]

"If you really believed what you wrote, you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so strenuously."
Hmm, yes, sure. I think sitting happily in my lovely house thousands of miles away from my passport country writing about my contentment with life OBVIOUSLY means I am living a lie. I am gratified to think that someone who has never met me has such astonishing insights into my psyche.
I stand by my opinions. There are many people living a very fulfilling life out here "on the circuit" and I am glad you are enjoying your life back at home.
Happy new year! XXXXX

[PsyGuy]

@senator

Thats your perception, whether its valid or not is irrelevant because its the perception of the individual that matters. Further there is a major difference between "traveling" and living overseas. You may very well be able to afford more travel but your not living the expat life, and regardless of its value its a highly desirable attribute of being an IT and Id argue its the number 1 reason why everyone does this and why there is a market for it.

Yes a lot of time is spent in school and it really doesnt afford the opportunity to travel, but the iss ue is that ITs go to experience living not seeing a foreign country, which is why I advise entry ISs to choose a region and location they want to be in as opposed to school qualities.

Thats a gross generality there are plenty of good schools in nice locations, yes Beijing, and other parts have horrible air quality but so does L.A. and its unfair to paint them all with the same brush.
Thats the trade off though and I usallyy advice ITs if money is important to them either go to the ME or stay home, since the average IS salary is about $32K and the average US teacher salary is $45K.

McD's and Coke are everywhere, there far more prevalent overseas in regions such as asia than they are in the States. Coke or Pepsi is one of the more popular drinks next to bottled water and iced coffee. Lots of things are bad for you, and people have the freedom (in general) to make bad choices.

Disadvantaged kids is just another way of saying trouble makers, many ITs go into IE for that very reason.

You make that HOS look good so that they will talk good about you when your moving up the IS ladder. Thats how it is outside of education, you want a promotion and advancement you make nice and friends with the people that are in a position to make that happen. Edcuation in most regards has a very flat hierarchy.

@Amnesiac

Sorry, but it really is superficial, ITs are very indistinguishable from one another the only significant factor is specific curriculum experience. Thats not what admins and recruiters look for though, its fit, whether or not you will make a good employee not a good teacher, they already know that you can teach and the students given their motivation and resources will be successful.

The savings are better domestically, you have far greater income at longer longevity levels than you do in IT, and retirement pension programs over a lifetime show domestic education pays far far better over a lifetime. The only truth in your argument is if you define potential as an elite tier school that you can retire out of, then your looking at comparable lifetime earnings.

When discussing moral it only works if you restrict the population size to upper tier schools, which is a very small set of schools, compared to all the third tier schools the upper tier schools are almost imperceptible. Comparing a public/regulated/municipal school to an IS isnt a fair comparison, youd have to move to a local private school before you can make representative and meaningful comparisons. ISs in the vast majority of cases get to be selective (whether they exercise that selection is a different issue), public/regulated/municipal schools dont they have to take everyone and they have to serve them regardless of their needs or level of dysfunction.

[shadowjack]

The domestic pension can be better (if it is a defined benefits rather than a defined contributions); however, I know teachers who have died before retirement or shortly after retirement and who never got to utilize their pensions.

I have friends and family who tell us they will travel when the kids graduate, when they pay off the house, when they retire, and guess what? Many of them don't. Many of the ones who do end up doing package tours to Europe for two weeks and 3 countries (they are too old to do the 14 days/14 country pace of a Kon Tiki type tour) or they go to Mexico or on a cruise.

We are living our retirement now in many ways. We have been privileged enough to live in different countries and get to know them in depth. We have experienced tourist season and done the touristy things - and non-tourist season - and done local things. We have been to, and taken our kids to, more countries than you can shake a stick at.

We would hate to put off these things until tomorrow, when we never know what tomorrow brings in terms of personal health or ability to do things due to other circumstances. If anything ever happened, we have lived a full lives and done things that make us the 1% (not necessarily monetarily, but experientially). I am glad we did. Others have stayed home - and they are glad they did. Each person has their own comfort zone, belief system, and path in life. I can only give our position :-)

[PsyGuy]

@shadowjack

So do I, but that's how life works its a sexually transferred and terminal condition, what can I say live longer if you want to collect your pension.

I agree, I would much rather do my traveling and living abroad while I'm young enough to appreciate it and enjoy it.

I can shake a stick at a lot of countries, really thats not a bar or standard thats hard to meet.

[vandsmith]

@senator

the gross marketing and advertising are just part of the game in education. it isn't like everyone is creating 50-page ichiros.

but look at what the fair is: it's speed dating for educators. it just is what it is. business cards, pamphlets - like everyone has said - you have a couple of minutes to impress to try to get an interview.

it'd be great to hear some more stories from the fair though, and maybe save the future of the profession for a different thread?

v.

[PsyGuy]

@vandsmith

Not everyone creates 50 page ichiros, I have seen at least one though.
Its not minutes its seconds, you get about half a minute at signup to make a pitch assuming theres a line behind you.

[senator]

@ amnesiac

Throughout history the majority has frequently been wrong and morally inferior to a minority. In Nazi Germany the majority allowed millions to be destroyed while a minority who actually fought against the government were deemed not only wrong but traitors. But I can see why you forgot that: you are an amnesiac.

After 18 years in 6 countries and travel all over the world I probably have as much if not more experience than anyone on this forum. My last post was in 2007. I've watched salaries/benefits either drop or stay flat while cost of living rises. Retirement pay, if available at all, is pretty pathetic, yet tuitions have steadily risen. I've watched pollution levels increase, taxes at most schools increase, and for profits increase exponentially.

I'll leave you all with a question: How many black teachers have you worked with overseas? How many black teachers have you seen at job fairs?

So, you defenders are correct in one regard: If you are part of that tiny light-skinned elite who keep their mouths shut and ignore every injustice and inequity, the international education system is great. But that's the way it always is for the tiny elite, hasn't it Guys?

[wrldtrvlr123]

senator wrote:
> @ amnesiac
>
> Throughout history the majority has frequently been wrong and morally inferior to
> a minority. In Nazi Germany the majority allowed millions to be destroyed while
> a minority who actually fought against the government were deemed not only wrong
> but traitors. But I can see why you forgot that: you are an amnesiac.
>
> After 18 years in 6 countries and travel all over the world I probably have as much
> if not more experience than anyone on this forum. My last post was in 2007. I've
> watched salaries/benefits either drop or stay flat while cost of living rises. Retirement
> pay, if available at all, is pretty pathetic, yet tuitions have steadily risen.
> I've watched pollution levels increase, taxes at most schools increase, and for
> profits increase exponentially.
>
> I'll leave you all with a question: How many black teachers have you worked with
> overseas? How many black teachers have you seen at job fairs?
>
> So, you defenders are correct in one regard: If you are part of that tiny light-skinned
> elite who keep their mouths shut and ignore every injustice and inequity, the international
> education system is great. But that's the way it always is for the tiny elite, hasn't
> it Guys?
===========

Wow. Classic. In one post you manged to set yourself up as the selfless martyr, classify anyone who disagrees with you and is still enjoying what you gave up years ago (but allegedly prospered from for 17 years) as a nazi/elitist that has sold their soul to the man and is living the good life only by profiting from the injustice being perpetrated on the downtrodden and ended up sounding a bit like Humphrey Bogart in the Caine Mutiny(...strawberries...it was the bleeping strawberries....).

You may have won the award for most hypocritical, self-serving and talking out your backside post of the last few years (and beat out some stiff competition to do it). Congrats!

[PsyGuy]

Lets try and remember forum conventions require we only abuse PsyGuy. PsyGuy is the designated punching bag and whipping post.

@senator

You do know there is Nazi fallacy, that any discussion and argument that degenerates to the point of making a comparison to Hitler or the Nazies is lost.

Yes, benefits have stayed flat and dropped, because there has been a global recession. The same can be said of the domestic education market. Yes, if you want to retire out of IE you need to get to WE or a top tier school. That is the way our profession works, people dont move around within a district they leave one independent IS and go to another independent IS, if not leaving the country and region all together. Do you realize the complexities of a global IT retirement plan and how that would work across multiple jurisdictions. Each year a retirement investment company sponsors one of the fairs (they pay for the social) typically the BOS fair, would it be nice if ISs made some kind of contribution? Well most of them do in the form of a bonus. So its there its just not a defined benefit program.

What are ISs supposed to do about the pollution? They build where the students/parents/money is, thats how businesses work, you need a market for your service. What are ISs supposed to do about taxes they are one business entity in a vast political landscape, I assure you they want lower taxes too, but government has to pay the bills, and yes some countries that means people have to get rich, thats the way it is. ISs are not champions of anything, they are just running an organization that provides a service, and employees a high number of foreigners.
Profits and revenue is how ISs succedd, non-profit doesnt mean charity, and ownership seldom does anything out of altruistic motivation. Its a business, for proft/non-profit its still a business.

Black teachers almost none, yeah its an Anglo dominated field. Its not the ISs fault, ownership and parents want westerners which they identify as Anglos. The world is not all worm and fuzzy and IBish, prejudice is real, and discrimination is common. When I get my sunshine, rainbows and unicorn Ill ask for equality for all too.

With the exception of the ethnic race issue, those are what admins and recruiters define as a good employee. No one wants rebels, rouges or trouble makers, they just make managing a school harder and add cost, followers get the job done with the least amount of fuss.